President Zardari announces establishment of army base in Swat

[MastanKhan]

Xeric,

At first I looked at your number of posts and I said to myself---where I have been and how have I missed this guy---but then I see it is my good budyy 'enigma'.


It is a great news for swat and the surrounding areas---I would say that pak army should at least on a minimum focus on setting up 2 major cantonments in that area plus 3 smaller garrisons---that is the only possible manner that development,medical facilities, employment, schools, colleges etc etc will get into that area.

Pak army cantonments have helped bring prosperity and education in all the areas that they have been established and they would continue to do the same in the future.

 

[Xeric]

I think you have to also look at the 'message' being sent with this move, to multiple parties.

First the Taliban - The Taliban want the Military operation in Swat to end, and have stated that they will continue to carry out terrorist attacks until that goal is met. The announcement of a military cantonment is a very strong response to that demand. Hell No! Not only are we not stopping the ops, we also plan on making the military presence permanent.

Second the locals - the locals who are against the Taliban will definitely gain a confidence boost from this. Many will be reluctant to return, fearful of the Government betraying them again and leaving them to fend for themselves against a resurgent and vengeful Taliban. A permanent military presence in Swat indicates a long term commitment and presence, and may be reassuring for those returning and rebuilding.

It may also spur other locals into coming out and publicly supporting the Military and GoP in this war, with Laskars and intelligence, with renewed confidence in the military's intent to stay.

Third the people of the rest of Pakistan - I think many may still remain unconvinced that the Army will continue this latest offensive, regardless of what the official statements are. Pakistanis have seen so many offensives halted, and so many peace deals made, that they can probably be excused for being so jaded about the commitment of the GoP and Military. Setting up a permanent military presence may also reassure this important 'silent majority' that the government means business, and will play hard and play to win.

I think the announcement and construction of a military cantonment will have a significant impact, and is a welcome move.

Draya ko kozzay mai band kar diya hai Agno aap nay!.. so i'll not be debating much on it. BUT, yes i still have to ask the gentlemen who oppose the construction of garrisons in Swat, that HOW on earth can these be 'harmful' and detrimental to the locals!

i would like a detailed response. Try to give me any logic in your claims favor and i might accept it. To help you out yopu can argue about the following:-

Does the military in other 40 plus cantts inside Pakistan ask for 'Jagga Tax' from locals surroundo9ng the cantts?

Or does they eat and waste out toxic metiral out of the cantts thereby endangering the surroundings and the city?

May be the humans that reside inside the cantts suffer from social diseases/venereal infections and have the potential to pollute others.

There may be a possibility that as the humans who would be filling these garrisons might intimidate the poor and weak and make a ruling class thus giving lead to the 'rulers and ruled' paradigm.

Or may be the locals and other just dont like the face of these people! As the stink, eat and sleep less, sacrifice, suffer, gave away the best part of their lives for others betterment, died just for nothing, left their homes and families so that others can stay put etc etc.


Another useful though these people who oppose the idea: try to find out the 'size' of cantts in Karachi, Lahore, Multan, Peshawar, Quetta etc etc and compare and ratio it against the actual area of that city (so much for the dark ages and residing 'inside' the garrisons!) and tell me if by any means it has hindered the growth, welfare, sociability and commerce of the city. Instead they have just added to what ever prosperity these cities had (though this dosent justify the construction).

Lets not over speed our common senses and should understand that why shouldn't we just have a cantt at Multan and 'concentrate' the entire military in Punjab there? or may be we can just leave Gwadar and Turbat away from military reach and when at some point the need arises to send in troops as had been previously (and this need can arose at any time-who knew Swat the Switzerland would become another Kashmir), they are required to be air-lifted so that they reach there in time, thus consuming more resources and time of this very Nation. i wonder why do we have a cantt in Hyderabad when there is a big garrison at Karachi only a few 100 miles away.

Let's not put undue strain on are brains and keep the 'science' out of military thinking, as cantts and garrisons are made to protect while keeping view the requirement of rapid mobilization and deployment both against the internal and external threats.

 

[Xeric]

Xeric,

At first I looked at your number of posts and I said to myself---where I have been and how have I missed this guy---but then I see it is my good budyy 'enigma'.

Lolzz.. well bro you missed by signature there. Glad that you found me.

It is a great news for swat and the surrounding areas---I would say that pak army should at least on a minimum focus on setting up 2 major cantonments in that area plus 3 smaller garrisons

i am not sure whether this new cantt would only concentrate on the requirements of Swat and surroundings or would it also take care of the further Tribal belt to include N/S Waziristan. May be they need to get those areas also under th supervision but i am not sure if the Tribal system and Federal law there would allow it unless the are interjected with the provincial law and are merged into main stream Pakistan. i am just blank on it, so just guessing it around.

---that is the only possible manner that development,medical facilities, employment, schools, colleges etc etc will get into that area. Pak army cantonments have helped bring prosperity and education in all the areas that they have been established and they would continue to do the same in the future.

Though that is absolutely true but it just doesn't mean that in order to bring the above mentioned increments to an area military setups should be constructed there, although the military package contains all that, free of cost Its like buy one get one free!

 

[Xeric]

IThe announcement of a military cantonment is a very strong response to that demand. Hell No! Not only are we not stopping the ops, we also plan on making the military presence permanent.

Ouch! that hurts!

Right on target, that too below the belt (though it is illegal, atleast in boxing). i am sure this strong signal would give them nightmares!

Gosh! did they ever think about this possibility, that to from a 'civilian' President's mouth!?

 

[Patriot]

This is very good step..Army should have permanent presence in western/eastern/northern/southern areas of Pakistan.

 

[Elmo]

@ Mastan Khan:

It is a great news for swat and the surrounding areas---I would say that pak army should at least on a minimum focus on setting up 2 major cantonments in that area plus 3 smaller garrisons---that is the only possible manner that development,medical facilities, employment, schools, colleges etc etc will get into that area. Pak army cantonments have helped bring prosperity and education in all the areas that they have been established and they would continue to do the same in the future.

Hi, agreed Pak army cantonments have brought in development, but the deal is that it is the job of the local, provincial and federal government to ensure “development, medical facilities, employment, schools, colleges etc etc will get into that area.” The resentment comes in when the locals see the army heralding such measures — were they second-rate citizens before that development could not have taken place earlier. If we go by this logic, then it’s high time that the entire country was turned into one big garrison so that there could be some uplift.

 

[ajpirzada]

@qsaark
i agree with ur point of givin education and other basic facilities to ppl but u must keep in mind that for that we need security. u cant build schools and colleges when u know that it will get blown up when u finish construction. same goes for fata. u have to first ensure security before startin any development project.

 

[qsaark]

@qsaark
i agree with ur point of givin education and other basic facilities to ppl but u must keep in mind that for that we need security. u cant build schools and colleges when u know that it will get blown up when u finish construction. same goes for fata. u have to first ensure security before startin any development project.

Security is the responsibility of the Police and paramilitary not Army. But I am not going into this, if it was not for this mentality of our nation that Army is the solution of every problem, we were standing somewhere esle today. Army needs justification of its existance in current numbers. First they were relying on Kashmir issue, that issue is pretty much gone. Now a new job is needed to justify there presence and they have found it in the name of WoT. If the job description of Pakistan Army is policing the streets, controlling the criminals and spreading education than good luck with this.

 

[ajpirzada]

Security is the responsibility of the Police and paramilitary not Army. But I am not going into this, if it was not for this mentality of our nation that Army is the solution of every problem, we were standing somewhere esle today. Army needs justification of its existance in current numbers. First they were relying on Kashmir issue, that issue is pretty much gone. Now a new job is needed to justify there presence and they have found it in the name of WoT. If the job description of Pakistan Army is policing the streets, controlling the criminals and spreading education than good luck with this.

if policemen always surrender to talibans then wat other option have we got?

 

[moha199]

I believe we should have an Army base in swat and also in NW SW for good now

 

[Xeric]

[Hi, agreed Pak army cantonments have brought in development, but the deal is that it is the job of the local, provincial and federal government to ensure “development, medical facilities, employment, schools, colleges etc etc will get into that area.” The resentment comes in when the locals see the army heralding such measures — were they second-rate citizens before that development could not have taken place earlier. If we go by this logic, then it’s high time that the entire country was turned into one big garrison so that there could be some uplift.

Was this just to score points of was it done to make way for your entry in this thread?

From where did you find this?

i and others have been mentioning this again and again that even if military presence anywhere (including other armies to include the West) do bring luxmi wherever they go but this is not at all a justification to militarize a dejected portion!

Let's keep this stupid school of though out of this discussion.

 

[fatman17]

Yesterday, the President of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has approved the deployment of a Garrison HQ in Swat (most probably near the city of Mingora). At this stage, it will be a Brigade HQ, to be upgraded later to Divisional HQ level in the coming months and years. Further deployment of unit level at FOB’s in places like Buner, Upper and Lower Dir, Bajaur, N & S Waziristan (once in army control) to provide rapid reaction support to the local administration if and when required.

The GoP and the Army should campaign for the release of funds from the Coalition Counter Insurgency Support Fund made available by the US administration and Congress which are in the control of the Centcom Chief, to set-up the Divisional HQ. The operational concept of the Divisional level force should be that of a Counter-Insurgency Rapid Reaction Force. The equipment requirements would commensurate COIN as its top priority (NVG, Wheeled APCs / Wheeled Artillery, Helicopters).

In 3 to 5 years down-the-line, because this is how long it will take, the tribal areas would require a Corps level force with its area of responsibility starting from Chitral in the northwest right down / along the western border till N & S Waziristan.

 

[fatman17]

@ Mastan Khan:

It is a great news for swat and the surrounding areas---I would say that pak army should at least on a minimum focus on setting up 2 major cantonments in that area plus 3 smaller garrisons---that is the only possible manner that development,medical facilities, employment, schools, colleges etc etc will get into that area. Pak army cantonments have helped bring prosperity and education in all the areas that they have been established and they would continue to do the same in the future.

Hi, agreed Pak army cantonments have brought in development, but the deal is that it is the job of the local, provincial and federal government to ensure “development, medical facilities, employment, schools, colleges etc etc will get into that area.” The resentment comes in when the locals see the army heralding such measures — were they second-rate citizens before that development could not have taken place earlier. If we go by this logic, then it’s high time that the entire country was turned into one big garrison so that there could be some uplift.

worth considering!

 

[Xeric]

worth considering!

 

[qsaark]

if policemen always surrender to talibans then wat other option have we got?

Train them and equip them with better equipment.