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Possible Solution of Kashmir issue...Your Opinion

Sir take it easy with the new guy!



Forget it, the context of the post is lost on you people. In your epic myopia, you seem to confuse psychological attachment with some sort of longing and hatred as the most pristine form of patriotism. Your misguided sense of direction if nothing else, concerns me, the Pakistani lot included.
@Joe Shearer @third eye what is it with these guys? We have fought the other but remain civil and show mutual respect, these guys probably have never seen the other side ever and have such well-entrenched biases.
Nothing on patriotism, its a fact. Pakistan hardly finds mention in the south but it comes up mostly in the context of terrorism. You can call this bias or whatever, Pakistan is hardly in news for good stuff. A lot of people from south are in other countries especially in US and believe me the news in US too does not mention Pakistan in a good light and nobody is interested in digging the bias of news papers and such cause they are least interested, similar to what happens in say China.

However, you said that north Indians have an attachment and to that my answer was no, sir. To me and my parents and their family there is hardly anything. They are quite happy where they are and do not seem to know much about the now Pakistan.

My Grandmother is still alive, hail and health, she actually had to face the sad circumstances of our division but she hardly mentions Pakistan when remembering her experiences. My other late grandmother had some stories of Pakistan but she only remembered it as a cruel joke which was played on them by those who were in power and nothing else.

Where was the question of respect? I was expressing my observations and experiences about the topic of your post.
 
The last thing first: I am now getting known as soft on Pakistanis, and soft on Muslims as well, the irony being that my VC, who is my benefactor, is an Aligarh product (also in service there, here on secondment). As for telling the kids that they need to see people as people, not as national stereotypes, at this university, which is a bit of an elite place (they qualify through the Common Law Admission Test, which some 40,000 take, of some 1,400 qualify for seats), they are not too bad, not like the run of the mill colleges. Frankly, I tend to see people who think in a regressive way as abnormal, and I think that it is more accurate to think of ourselves as normal.

I went on to my first Pakistani site after Bombay, to find out who wanted to kill us, and why. That was Professor Adil Najam's All Things Pakistan, and there cannot possibly be a more decent, more civilised introduction to Pakistan. I actually became fast friends with some of them.

That led me to Pak Tea House, where I was taken by some of my new friends, and that was almost home. It still is, in some ways.

Some six of us, three from each country, coincidentally, then formed a private mailing list, when PTH was over-run by Hindutva-vadis and it became too much for our stomachs. That has grown to ten, but will stay very small, because we discuss the most difficult subjects, sometimes get angry with each other, but always make peace at the end of play. We are hoping to get together in the flesh, although there have been some small meetings on the side, for instance, when the remarkable Yasser Latif Hamdani came to Delhi (his account was quite ambiguous; liked Delhi, and some Dilli-wallahs, was quite critical about the condition of Muslims in Delhi, and about some bumptious Indians - which just proves that he is perfectly normal). That meeting sounds too difficult to organise in Lahore, our first wish, or even in Delhi, our second, so it will probably happen in Dubai (so what's new?). Some other side meetings have happened in London.

We have just fought a very bitter war on the Kashmir issue in that list, and one of my closest friends and I were locked in mortal combat for nearly two weeks - truce was declared and peace broke out a few days ago. You will be amused to learn that the range of options there very closely mirrored the options generated here. The only difference is that there was no name-calling there, as there has been here. But that's because we are very close friends there.


That is heartening to know, I am glad that your university has pupils who see the world through a broader lens.
Before the newbies joined in, even this thread was moving in a very positive direction, there were disagreements, there were contentions and yes allegations were also leveled against the other but there was still an openness, a genuine desire to listen to the other side and for a change, think, why do they think like they think? What makes them tick? Surely what they say can't all be hot air?
And then, cue the morality brigade, all of a sudden the next Indo-Pak War being fought on this thread and there could be no chance of listening to the corrupting influence of the other.
Like I said, if we speak slightly less and try to listen some more, we might find that we have some common ground between us.
 
my policy no replys to trolls and latest version stealth trolls
 
To be honest, Sir, I think it is the most civilised and worthwhile country in the world at the moment. Leaving aside south Asian ghettos, that is.
but it has own impacts on life earning a good white color job is main issue . also culture and so many other effects . one should not judge things from far away
 
Remember this quote?

"Never was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill.

You and your colleagues have more moxie in your little toenail clipping than ten people like me put together, and worthy of respect.

(Just don't go and declare Martial Law, that I have an issue with. :D )

I was actually called out by my platoon commander on the fact that I might one day declare martial law when I wrote an individual research paper on tax reforms and restructuring. He said, either you are in the wrong line of work, or you have eyes higher up than the rest of us, in which case, don't count on me for support.
 
That is heartening to know, I am glad that your university has pupils who see the world through a broader lens.
Before the newbies joined in, even this thread was moving in a very positive direction, there were disagreements, there were contentions and yes allegations were also leveled against the other but there was still an openness, a genuine desire to listen to the other side and for a change, think, why do they think like they think? What makes them tick? Surely what they say can't all be hot air?
And then, cue the morality brigade, all of a sudden the next Indo-Pak War being fought on this thread and there could be no chance of listening to the corrupting influence of the other.
Like I said, if we speak slightly less and try to listen some more, we might find that we have some common ground between us.

aOm9Pm3_460s.jpg


I was actually called out by my platoon commander on the fact that I might one day declare martial law when I wrote an individual research paper on tax reforms and restructuring. He said, either you are in the wrong line of work, or you have eyes higher up than the rest of us, in which case, don't count on me for support.

You should read this then: :D

Eight Good People

To be honest, Sir, I think it is the most civilised and worthwhile country in the world at the moment. Leaving aside south Asian ghettos, that is.

Any place that cold can never be called civilized, Sir. :D
 
No, I think it comes before, not after. The more friends we have on both sides, the more the drag on the imbecile segment, the lunatic fringe.

Been there done that - multiple times. Public opinion is very fickle my friend all it takes is one spark to go back to zero.

At-least when a stranger does it - it's easier to rationalize.

Personally, I have had many friends on the other side, realized we can't be divorced from the world and be friends in isolation. Whenever a major incident happens things become extremely awkward.

That is why I believe the core issue must be addressed first, CBMs can come later.

That is why Iranian and Cuban deal and subsequent Detente is a template - all the lovey dovey stuff can happened later.

P.S. Doesn't mean there can't be civility and respect.
 
Been there done that - multiple times. Public opinion is very fickle my friend all it takes is one spark to go back to zero.

At-least when a stranger does it - it's easier to rationalize.

Personally, I have had many friends on the other side, realized we can't be divorced from the world and be friends in isolation. Whenever a major incident happens things become extremely awkward.

That is why I believe the core issue must be addressed first, CBMs can come later.

That is why Iranian and Cuban deal and subsequent Detente is a template - all the lovey dovey stuff can happened later.

As I mentioned, I don't agree.

Just now, there is a pall of gloom over our little group, because of the evident and palpable grief of our Pakistani friends. When a nasty incident happens in India, there is a similar pall of gloom, and completely unrestricted, unrestrained, warm sympathy from them in turn. That includes incidents which under different circumstances, they might have glossed over. Not worse than that, but it's a long distance from where they are.
 
As I mentioned, I don't agree.

Just now, there is a pall of gloom over our little group, because of the evident and palpable grief of our Pakistani friends. When a nasty incident happens in India, there is a similar pall of gloom, and completely unrestricted, unrestrained, warm sympathy from them in turn. That includes incidents which under different circumstances, they might have glossed over. Not worse than that, but it's a long distance from where they are.

Grief and sympathy is in my opinion no substitute to action. There are many members on both sides who are well meaning and decent human beings - no less can be expected from them and no less they will offer. However at large among the populace there is feeling of smug satisfaction and joy.

I am not talking about schools and intellectuals of Delhi and Mumbai but masses of small towns and villages.

All I say is let us have 10 years of uninterrupted peace and then try CBMs this way we can avoid the feeling of betrayal which looms large after every such incident.
 
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