Philippine Air Force interested in Gripen

[Desertfalcon]

There are more to it.

First of all, they are only interested in, that does not mean they are literally buying, until the two country inked the deal, nothing is certain.

That said Gripen is the best deal they can get with around that money. The only other opponent is Rafale, but they have a bigger Op cost than Gripen, while others are in itself more expensive than the Gripen, F-2 cost somewhere 120-150 mil, F-16 Block 52 or later cost too much too (By the way there are no F-16 E/F, it's either ABC or D) and J-10B is not a production aircraft. Also given the tension between China and Phi, would you think the sale is possible? Even if they do made a functioning production J-10 B

Right. The whole reason the PAF wants to buy modern fighters is because of the growth of Chinese military power.

 

[Manindra]

@$ 6o million apiece - the price of a Su-30

What is operating & maintainence cost of Su-30 compare to Gripen.

 

[Audio]

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You can add Selex from Italy too as they make the new AESA the Gripen has.

 

[GR!FF!N]

There are more to it.

First of all, they are only interested in, that does not mean they are literally buying, until the two country inked the deal, nothing is certain.

That said Gripen is the best deal they can get with around that money. The only other opponent is Rafale, but they have a bigger Op cost than Gripen, while others are in itself more expensive than the Gripen, F-2 cost somewhere 120-150 mil, F-16 Block 52 or later cost too much too (By the way there are no F-16 E/F, it's either ABC or D) and J-10B is not a production aircraft. Also given the tension between China and Phi, would you think the sale is possible? Even if they do made a functioning production J-10 B

they're also buying few FA-50s(Korean T-50 Golden Eagle)..

I'd say Grippen will be best choice for PH.they want a cost effective solution.Grippen is a decent swing role jet,with a decent payload.its PS-05/A pulse-doppler X-band radar has a decent range of 120 km.also,Grippen can be rearmed in short turnaround time,of just 10 minutes.also,Grippen is flexible enough to take off from a small runway or even highway if needed.I wish if they would go for so,they should go for it.

 

[Zero_wing]

The Filipinos made a jet aircraft once, that was the closest to a fighter jet, even though it was pretty slow. I don't know the name of the jet though.
------------
Why buy the Gripen?

It's a good plane and all, but there are better planes such as Rafale, MiG-35, J-10B, F-2 and F-16E/F. These planes have good performance and better avionics (If I am correct)

Must be the price...

Oh please not you again do something with your life cut the b.s troll

 

[Zero_wing]

Guys just to be clear on this we are interested on the Gripen i think the DND is saving that idea as one of the planes for the for the last phase of the modernization we still not done with phase one Replacement of Personnel equipments, rebuilding facilities refurnishing current equipments for extended use and training for new equipment and new technologies etc and now moving (rushing) to Phase two buying big ticket items like Fa50s and missiles new equipment and ships for example to replace the old Vietnam era and World War two era and early 90s era vintage equipment we have.

Its not easy limited budget but we do have the money due to reducing corruption and creating measures to prevent most of it example is the G2G (Government to Government transactions) Most of the DND will be done using this its more easier and more faster and less corrupt then bidding contracts.

going back i saw a gripen once and great aircraft if you look at pros and cons i say its a great choice for the PAF especially for the credible defense strategy the philippines is now implementing heck in the opening of the 16th congress one of the first bills past was to bill to create a new defense act for the Philippines to replace our old Commonwealth Act No1 (1930s) which due to other laws introduce to cut its provisions is not a toothless law if that bill pass the Philippines can add more budget and more focus on defense and more funds would be added and the way the Philippine economy has been doing well we may have some new capabilities and more funds for defense so please dont mind the anti filipino idiots here especially the Imperial Maoist Chekwa they know nothing.

 

[Zero_wing]

Those plane are best, but price tag for buy, maintance, training, operation ... will huge for PAF budget.

actually the maintenance of the Plane is one of the most cost effective in the world that's why its being consider compare to the F16 and the other gen 4.5 on current use today plus the load out of the fighter and its dependability and it already have a super cruise ability and it can take off in short runways in pag-asa island this would be prefect for the PAF since we have more airfields than airbases and we have have a lot of islands to hide them and we can land this things on short roads excellent as a guerrilla style tactics and this settings this would be prefect for the Philippines i think we getting the Thailand deal or maybe the Czech deal but its in Phase 3 sir its being listed as a candidate fighters being considered for punches and that can take at less a decade or two to do (currently we are still in the end of Phase one and rushing to go to phase two with the recent chinese incursions and arrogance

 

[Wholegrain]

Guys just to be clear on this we are interested on the Gripen i think the DND is saving that idea as one of the planes for the for the last phase of the modernization we still not done with phase one Replacement of Personnel equipments, rebuilding facilities refurnishing current equipments for extended use and training for new equipment and new technologies etc and now moving (rushing) to Phase two buying big ticket items like Fa50s and missiles new equipment and ships for example to replace the old Vietnam era and World War two era and early 90s era vintage equipment we have.

Its not easy limited budget but we do have the money due to reducing corruption and creating measures to prevent most of it example is the G2G (Government to Government transactions) Most of the DND will be done using this its more easier and more faster and less corrupt then bidding contracts.

going back i saw a gripen once and great aircraft if you look at pros and cons i say its a great choice for the PAF especially for the credible defense strategy the philippines is now implementing heck in the opening of the 16th congress one of the first bills past was to bill to create a new defense act for the Philippines to replace our old Commonwealth Act No1 (1930s) which due to other laws introduce to cut its provisions is not a toothless law if that bill pass the Philippines can add more budget and more focus on defense and more funds would be added and the way the Philippine economy has been doing well we may have some new capabilities and more funds for defense so please dont mind the anti filipino idiots here especially the Imperial Maoist Chekwa they know nothing.

@Hu Songshan @WebMaster

Zero_wing keeps using "Chekwa" in his posts which is a racial slur for Chinese in Tagalog.

 

[Penguin]

It's actually a watered down American plane, Swedish uses American tech to build it, and it's cheaper than a later version F-16.

Upper estimate: 60% foreign

The foreign content of Gripen is high, 60% by value comes from NATO member countries, 70% from EU members (including Sweden), so upwards 30% is US content, contributed by more than 25 companies.

JAS 39 Gripen - an overview: Industrial partners

Lower estimate 40% foreign
European Defence Technology in Transition - Google Boeken

Importantly, most foreign components are European, not US. Would like to see comparative figures for e.g. Tornado, Eurofighter.

The Gripen also has considerable foreign content- a radar developed with French help and an American engine.

Would like to see comparative data for JF-17, LCA etc. ..... uhm F-35?

Also, what exactly IS foreign content, in this day and age where aerospace companies are decidedly international/multinational by nature?

 

[Armstrong]

There are more to it.

First of all, they are only interested in, that does not mean they are literally buying, until the two country inked the deal, nothing is certain.

That said Gripen is the best deal they can get with around that money. The only other opponent is Rafale, but they have a bigger Op cost than Gripen, while others are in itself more expensive than the Gripen, F-2 cost somewhere 120-150 mil, F-16 Block 52 or later cost too much too (By the way there are no F-16 E/F, it's either ABC or D) and J-10B is not a production aircraft. Also given the tension between China and Phi, would you think the sale is possible? Even if they do made a functioning production J-10 B

Mate, right now we haven't the Dollars to buy a pair of Underwear from Target !

Unless of course it was once worn by a Playmate !

I meant the above in an 'environmentally friendly' way....recycling you know...nothing 'sinful' !

What would you recommend us - the other PAF - to buy ?

Would 1-2 Squadron of Gripen's be able to provide the same advantage that our Block 52s do without nearly the amount of crippling purported sanctions & the sort the Block 52s come with ?

 

[jhungary]

Mate, right now we haven't the Dollars to buy a pair of Underwear from Target !

Unless of course it was once worn by a Playmate !

I meant the above in an 'environmentally friendly' way....recycling you know...nothing 'sinful' !

What would you recommend us - the other PAF - to buy ?

Would 1-2 Squadron of Gripen's be able to provide the same advantage that our Block 52s do without nearly the amount of crippling purported sanctions & the sort the Block 52s come with ?

Gripen will not be good it still runs with a US engine, if US decided to sanction Pakistan, you still get hung by a planes without an engine....Only a bit better off than your F-16.......

If you want to play safe, get away form US made planes altogether..........

Upper estimate: 60% foreign

JAS 39 Gripen - an overview: Industrial partners

Lower estimate 40% foreign
European Defence Technology in Transition - Google Boeken

Importantly, most foreign components are European, not US. Would like to see comparative figures for e.g. Tornado, Eurofighter.

Would like to see comparative data for JF-17, LCA etc. ..... uhm F-35?

Also, what exactly IS foreign content, in this day and age where aerospace companies are decidedly international/multinational by nature?

The term Foreign content should extend to the patent and IP right that applies exclusively to other country, but not Sweden.

It does not matter if only the planes have 1% foreign parts, you cannot grand license that does not belong to you to other country, that is a good way to get a huge and hefty legal fights. Not everyone is China you know??

As for F-35. The planes is American planes (US Properties). The international contribution only to the financial backing to the R&D and technological design of the planes in exchange for ToT for participant country and manufacturing requirement, thus making the plane American. However, the Patent and IP right is also an open source as different country and partner can have parts put in their F-35 different then the others. In effect it's a US planes but partner country are free to put their hardware in and make their own version of F-35, and US does not have the sole right to those version.

However, the core planes remain an US patent. Sales of F-35 to anyone is governed by Pentagon Foreign Military Sales Programs.
But after said sale is approved, you can literally put whatever you want in it (Given the permission is already given)

That's a LOT different than LCA or JF-17 or Gripen, where they did R&D together and uses Foreign Parts DIRECTLY into their airframe.

they're also buying few FA-50s(Korean T-50 Golden Eagle)..

I'd say Grippen will be best choice for PH.they want a cost effective solution.Grippen is a decent swing role jet,with a decent payload.its PS-05/A pulse-doppler X-band radar has a decent range of 120 km.also,Grippen can be rearmed in short turnaround time,of just 10 minutes.also,Grippen is flexible enough to take off from a small runway or even highway if needed.I wish if they would go for so,they should go for it.

Gripen is good but I think the Ultimate goal for PAF is going after either F-18E/F or F-18SH or F-16 block 52.
Problem is, where Gripen is good enough, they aren't the best kid around the block and looking at Philippine as a whole, they need a Seaborne attack craft more than a multi-role fighter. For that to happen, you need a fighter configured for Coastal/Naval defence, hence only F-18 of all type or Rafale M is the one that effectively enough for the PAF.

You can add Selex from Italy too as they make the new AESA the Gripen has.

Wasn't that used on the Gripen NG??

 

[GR!FF!N]

Gripen is good but I think the Ultimate goal for PAF is going after either F-18E/F or F-18SH or F-16 block 52.
Problem is, where Gripen is good enough, they aren't the best kid around the block and looking at Philippine as a whole, they need a Seaborne attack craft more than a multi-role fighter. For that to happen, you need a fighter configured for Coastal/Naval defence, hence only F-18 of all type or Rafale M is the one that effectively enough for the PAF.

you're right.but fund is the main issue of PH.PH's defence budget is really low..they're buying cost effective solutions,the trend which we've found in their frigate acquisition.if they shell out more,they might have small but impressive force.but thats little far fetched.but I think Gripen equipped with RBS 15F(250km range) will serve similar purpose.F-18 is too costly for PH..

 

[jhungary]

you're right.but fund is the main issue of PH.PH's defence budget is really low..they're buying cost effective solutions,the trend which we've found in their frigate acquisition.if they shell out more,they might have small but impressive force.but thats little far fetched.but I think Gripen equipped with RBS 15F(250km range) will serve similar purpose.F-18 is too costly for PH..

True, but both T-50 and Gripen purchase, if they did the latter, will be temporary solution, PAF cannot survive with 1 or 2 squadrons of T-50 mix with Gripen, what they need to look at is the future, not the present.

Even with 0.8% GDP, Philippine do have their military budget for about 1.5 billions. With improve economy, they should be able to afford at least F16 block 52 in the future. That is what I meant

 

[GR!FF!N]

True, but both T-50 and Gripen purchase, if they did the latter, will be temporary solution, PAF cannot survive with 1 or 2 squadrons of T-50 mix with Gripen, what they need to look at is the future, not the present.

Even with 0.8% GDP, Philippine do have their military budget for about 1.5 billions. With improve economy, they should be able to afford at least F16 block 52 in the future. That is what I meant

I think PH is slowly reforming their armed force.they're already buying some equipments while other projects are stacking up.so,they just can't buy high end jets with 1.8 bil dollars which they allocated for 5 years while they have to reform entire armed force right now.so,buying medium quality equipment that serves the purpose is the way.they bought 2 'Northwest Wind' class frigates,while they could go for much capable frigates,as well as 2 Hamilton class patrol boats.apart from that,they'were looking for missile firing gunboat,second hand aircrafts,Japanes maid patrol boats,Sokol Helos,Jacinto class patrol vessels,Patrol Killer Medium class boats, etc.Philippines clearly stated that not choosing F-16s is purely financial decision.what they really are looking for is cost effective solution.there is no doubt that F-16 and F-18 are capable jets and will serve PH better.but Gripen is cost effective solution of that.also,some might want to compare Gripen with F-16s.F-18 is way over this league,but remember,USA only proposed India to give this jet,not others.so,that might be an issue too.also,cost is the factor..

 

[Zero_wing]

Gripen will not be good it still runs with a US engine, if US decided to sanction Pakistan, you still get hung by a planes without an engine....Only a bit better off than your F-16.......

If you want to play safe, get away form US made planes altogether..........



The term Foreign content should extend to the patent and IP right that applies exclusively to other country, but not Sweden.

It does not matter if only the planes have 1% foreign parts, you cannot grand license that does not belong to you to other country, that is a good way to get a huge and hefty legal fights. Not everyone is China you know??

As for F-35. The planes is American planes (US Properties). The international contribution only to the financial backing to the R&D and technological design of the planes in exchange for ToT for participant country and manufacturing requirement, thus making the plane American. However, the Patent and IP right is also an open source as different country and partner can have parts put in their F-35 different then the others. In effect it's a US planes but partner country are free to put their hardware in and make their own version of F-35, and US does not have the sole right to those version.

However, the core planes remain an US patent. Sales of F-35 to anyone is governed by Pentagon Foreign Military Sales Programs.
But after said sale is approved, you can literally put whatever you want in it (Given the permission is already given)

That's a LOT different than LCA or JF-17 or Gripen, where they did R&D together and uses Foreign Parts DIRECTLY into their airframe.



Gripen is good but I think the Ultimate goal for PAF is going after either F-18E/F or F-18SH or F-16 block 52.
Problem is, where Gripen is good enough, they aren't the best kid around the block and looking at Philippine as a whole, they need a Seaborne attack craft more than a multi-role fighter. For that to happen, you need a fighter configured for Coastal/Naval defence, hence only F-18 of all type or Rafale M is the one that effectively enough for the PAF.



Wasn't that used on the Gripen NG??

No the F18 are just too expensive to maintain sir Gripen will be the Final fighter for the next 3 decades and ya i think its NG since its going to come out soon i think its 2016 but the c and d version would be enough