Perspective: I am an Ahmadi Muslim and I love Pakistan

[PoKeMon]

Offcourse one should love the nation which dont even recognize their religion.

Religion is such a medieval thing.

 

[VCheng]

Matters of theology should never be made state policy, its like two people arguing about which brand of tea is better without having actually tasted either. The state's responsibility is to establish order and safeguard its subjects, our state has failed miserably to do the same and has most shamefully, become a tool to facilitate the systematic repression of Ahmedis. By introducing politics of religion into the constitution, we effectively sealed our fate as a theocracy and have only went downhill since. I look at South Korea and Malaysia and my heart sinks, that could have been us! But unfortunately, our people would much rather kill people at the behest of a shady religious authority rather than work towards anything of consequence.

We went astray as soon as we passed the Objectives Resolution. That is the seed of our destruction today.

 

[Icarus]

Offcourse one should love the nation which dont even recognize their religion.

Religion is such a medieval thing.

Medieval as it is, ensuring that everyone has the freedom to practice it freely and willingly regardless, is what would describe a true democracy.

 

[Kompromat]

do you think ahmedis have the right the call them muslims and their place of worship a mosque ?

Personally. No

Ahmadiyya teachings (theologically speaking) are in a direct conflict with Islam on 'core issues'. I am saying this after having read Ahmadiyya texts in great detail. They also consider Muslims as Kuffar or Murtadin/Munafiqeen. I highlighted the list of forbidden acts to them i.e Marrying a Muslim, Praying the Janaza of a Muslim, Praying with Muslims in the same Mosque behind a Muslim Imam etc.

You might think that im taking it too seriously, i thought so too. The issue is that, theology aside, it creates a 'social wall' which they won't break, in other words won't assimilate. The Ahmadiya problem is here to stay, however the 'realistic' room for reform lies in amending the constitution and keeping the state out of the business of labeling citizens like products on a shelve.

 

[Hyperion]

Do they really say that??? I mean what the fukkkk!!!

I excommunicated my Ahmadi friends for not who they were but for lying in my face. You are doing exactly the same.

• "All those Muslims who do not enter the fold of the Promised Messiah, whether or not they have heard of Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani) are considered Kafirs and are beyond the pale of Islam."
  (Aeena-e-Sadaqat, P. 9/35, By Bashir-uddin Mahmud)
  
  
• • "God has revealed it to me that the person who did not believe in me after having heard about me is not a Muslim."
    (Al-Fazl, Qadian, Jan 15, 1935 - Al-Hukum, 4:24, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
• • "Any person who believes in Moses but does not believe in Christ, or believes in Christ but does not believe in Muhammad or believes in Muhammad but does not believe in the Promised Messiah, is not only a Kafir, but he is a confirmed (Pakka) Kafir, and out of the fold of Islam."
    (Kalimatul Fasl, P. 110, By Mirza Bashir Ahmad Qadiani)

 

[PoKeMon]

I don't consider Ahmadiya to be a religion, therefore this discussion is a social one.

Is there any religion other than sunni/shia islam? Just seeking your approval.

 

[Kompromat]

Do they really say that??? I mean what the fukkkk!!!

Yes Sir. Itna rola muft main nai khara hoa.

There was a COMPLETE consensus among ALL sects in regards to the Ahmadiya question ever since the movement began. Their Mirza himself gave the ammunition needed by our Mullahs who otherwise don't even agree on what type of date is best suited for breaking a fast, to use against Ahamdis till today and in the future.

 

[VCheng]

You might think that im taking it too seriously, i thought so too. The issue is that, theology aside, it creates a 'social wall' which they won't break, in other words won't assimilate.

Isn't that what is said for Muslims in Western countries too? Why do you expect of Ahmadis what Muslims themselves do not want to do?

 

[Kompromat]

Is there any religion other than sunni/shia islam? Just seeking your approval.

There is no Shia or Sunni Islam. They are just interpretations of the same theology. Matter of fact the core beliefs of both Shia and Sunni are exactly the same. They only differ on the 'political' side of things.

 

[Kompromat]

Isn't that what is said for Muslims in Western countries too? Why do you expect of Ahmadis what Muslims themselves do not want to do?

You seem pretty well assimilated so why ask this question?

 

[Icarus]

Personally. No

Ahmadiyya teachings (theologically speaking) are in a direct conflict with Islam on 'core issues'. I am saying this after having read Ahmadiyya texts in great detail. They also consider Muslims as Kuffar or Murtadin/Munafiqeen. I highlighted the list of forbidden acts to them i.e Marrying a Muslim, Praying the Janaza of a Muslim, Praying with Muslims in the same Mosque behind a Muslim Imam etc.

You might think that im taking it too seriously, i thought so too. The issue is that, theology aside, it creates a 'social wall' which they won't break, in other words won't assimilate. The Ahmadiya problem is here to stay, however the 'realistic' room for reform lies in amending the constitution and keeping the state out of the business of labeling citizens like products on a shelve.

Theological disagreements should be something healthy, they should be dealt with through debate and dedicated study but I wholeheartedly agree with your observation that the role of the state in 'labellling' people has to end. As for the misguided issue, that is a common concern with all of our muslim groups, Shias, Deobandi, Barelvi, Wahabi among others also refer to others as misguided and clerics order restrain when dealing with 'the others', singling out the Ahmedis for a practice that is a local norm would be unfair in my opinion.

 

[Kompromat]

Nope. The Green represents that Pakistan is nation of the Ahl-e-As-Sunnah Wa'al Jamma'at (Sunni Muslims).

Pakistan's founder Qaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah disowned his own beloved daughter simply because she married a Christian. This is how much respect Qaid-e-Azam had for the minorities.

The actual name Pakistan, means Land of the Pure, was named as such because all non-Muslims of Bar-e-Saghir were considered impure. When the Founding Fathers of Pakistan were considering this name, they had also considered naming the Islamic Republic as 'Islamistan' just in case the British did not the allow the name, Pakistan.

What all this means is that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan was created in the Name of Islam and created for the Muslims of Bar-e-Saghir.

Now if some Kafirs goes around telling the Muslims of Pakistans who sacrificed millions to create this Muslim country in the first place what "true Islam" is, or what "secular Pakistan" is all about, or how to be a "moderate Muslim", then they'll be dealt with.

Spare us the ignorance and stop re-inventing shit as per your own tunnel vision.

 

[VCheng]

You seem pretty well assimilated so why ask this question?

Because it is your views I questioned, not mine.

 

[Icarus]

Nope. The Green represents that Pakistan is nation of the Ahl-e-As-Sunnah Wa'al Jamma'at (Sunni Muslims).

You do realize that the Quaid was a Shia, right?

 

[Armstrong]

You do realize that the Quaid was a Shia, right?

No he wasn't; he never gave into this sectarian BS.....he was a non denominational Muslim like myself !