Perspective: I am an Ahmadi Muslim and I love Pakistan

[punit]

I didn't. Mirza brought you to this predicament. He knew what he was preaching and knew exactly where it was headed. In recent days, Gohar Shahi is another example.

but why only after partition!

Jinnah was pretty secular and liberal in his personal life, but he realized what was best for the Muslims of India - to have their own homeland.

but he really was not for actual partition. Nehru and Patel outwitted him in his own game and Mr Jinnah has nom other option but to accept for partition.

 

[VCheng]

but he really was not for actual partition. Nehru and Patel outwitted him in his own game and Mr Jinnah has nom other option but to accept for partition.

It is debatable who outwitted who, but the end result of partition was unstoppable in the end.

 

[B+ Dracula]

(BASE 1) Every sect that came into being follow QURAN & HADEES as basic Guideline.....
.
(BASE 2) All of them associate themselves with SUNNI/SHIA "school of thought".......
.
Anyone except them ....will be called Misguided or KHAWARJITTES
.
WHY WE HATE ISIS??
.
ISIS declare themselves sincere Muslims and they publicly follow quran/hadees and say prayers OPENLY
BUT
they wont associate themselves with any school of thought, Bcoz in doing so.....they have to OBEY orders of their ELDERS
SO
Under the veil of MUSALMAN they are fulfillng their nasty Political agenda of killing Muslims, non muslims, blowing Masjids & shrines.....bcoz they're answerable to No one.
.
CONCLUSION:

ISIS did a crime of ADDITION ..............they kill muslims/ non muslims , blow homes/masjids/shrines....so no doubt they're KHAWARJITES
.
QADYANIS & ISIS first manipulated Islam, which gave them AUTHORITY to manipulate ISLAMIC CLAUSES according to their needs
.
Other than that (Religious point of view) i've no problem with them, Qadiyanis are our BROTHERS

 

[FaujHistorian]

but why only after partition!
.

Oh Bhai, The hateful $hit was around even before 1947 too. Mirza was an intollerant Mullah and so were other Mullahs.

They were all declaring each other kafirs and what not. Read the literature. bhai Read!

you are just too focused on 1952 riots.

but he really was not for actual partition. Nehru and Patel outwitted him in his own game and Mr Jinnah has nom other option but to accept for partition.

Good to hear. I hope you say it after studying history and not just to win an argument on PDF.

Now please help me convince majority of Indians that Patel and and Nehru and Gandhi were the main reason for partition.

Thank you

 

[punit]

Oh Bhai, The hateful $hit was around even before 1947 too. Mirza was an intollerant Mullah and so were other Mullahs.

They were all declaring each other kafirs and what not. Read the literature. bhai Read!

you are just too focused on 1952 riots.




Good to hear. I hope you say it after studying history and not just to win an argument on PDF.

Now please help me convince majority of Indians that Patel and and Nehru and Gandhi were the main reason for partition.

Thank you

gandhi was not involved into this shadow game of partition.the main player were Jinna and Patel. Bothe leaders wanted the max for their respective community, but a compromise and some short of union /federation was not far from feasible . However at critical junction Jinna opted for Direct Action Day and strengthened the hand of hardliner group (Patel) and after that Parttion was enviable.

Just to remind you that Jinnah had no plan for all a separate homeland of all Muslims of Subcontinent. All Romanticism and Poetry of Iqbal aside The idea of pakistan was the result of of the fear of big muslim landlords and Nawabs of Up and Bengal. they were utter fearful of end of Jamindari ( landlord system) and hence power and prestige. The founder of Muslim League was Nawab of Dhaka( the biggest landlord of India !! ). However these gentlemen (??) were politically naive and in Mr Jinna found a charismatic leader. Mr Jinna also used ML and bogey of Partition to gain maximum concession.

However he overplayed this hand with the demand of 50% reservation for Muslims despite their population being barely 30-35%. Mr Patel understood the long term implication of such demands and decided to get rid of this nuisance for once and all.

The only person capable to preventing partition was Mr Gandhi. But as i stated earlier violence and mayhem by Muslim League weakened his position and allowed the hardliners to gain momentum. Rest as you know all is history. Also Hindu Mahasabha and upto an extent RSS also played pivotal roles in this drama. @Syed.Ali.Haider @Irfan Baloch !!

 

[FaujHistorian]

gandhi was not involved into this shadow game of partition.the main player were Jinna and Patel. Bothe leaders wanted the max for their respective community, but a compromise and some short of union /federation was not far from feasible . However at critical junction Jinna opted for Direct Action Day and strengthened the hand of hardliner group (Patel) and after that Parttion was enviable.

Just to remind you that Jinnah had no plan for all a separate homeland of all Muslims of Subcontinent. All Romanticism and Poetry of Iqbal aside The idea of pakistan was the result of of the fear of big muslim landlords and Nawabs of Up and Bengal. they were utter fearful of end of Jamindari ( landlord system) and hence power and prestige. The founder of Muslim League was Nawab of Dhaka( the biggest landlord of India !! ). However these gentlemen (??) were politically naive and in Mr Jinna found a charismatic leader. Mr Jinna also used ML and bogey of Partition to gain maximum concession.

However he overplayed this hand with the demand of 50% reservation for Muslims despite their population being barely 30-35%. Mr Patel understood the long term implication of such demands and decided to get rid of this nuisance for once and all.

The only person capable to preventing partition was Mr Gandhi. But as i stated earlier violence and mayhem by Muslim League weakened his position and allowed the hardliners to gain momentum. Rest as you know all is history. Also Hindu Mahasabha and upto an extent RSS also played pivotal roles in this drama. @Syed.Ali.Haider @Irfan Baloch !!

your knowledge is good though tinged with a bit of bias (both social and economic but that's OK).

Remember Congress was the drawing room party of big factory owners (textile mill owners) dominated by Hindus.

So your attack on big landlords is one-sided.

Gandhi was at the forefront of all the politics so please do not cover him up.

Compared to Gandhi, Patel was a pony show, and his main claim to fame was that he was among the top money-bag men for congress.

 

[Pakistani E]

I didn't. Mirza brought you to this predicament. He knew what he was preaching and knew exactly where it was headed. In recent days, Gohar Shahi is another example.

Whatever, you believe in a flying drone messiah paratrooping down from heaven. To me that's blasphemy, yet you never see an ahmadi blowing himself in the middle of Sunnis just because we differ with you. Neither have we ever burned alive your women and children. You say my beliefs hurt your feelings, well your beliefs hurt my feelings too, do you want me to start attacking Sunni mosques and women and children? Because I assure you, It's not that we can't do what you do to us, its because we have some thing called tolerance and human decency, Which most Sunnis are missing. Maybe you should lecture your fellow citizens on tolerance and respect before expecting me to respect your beliefs.

 

[Pakistani E]

Tit for tit

in a typical mola jut sultan rahi fashion (nay Musrrat Shaheen fashion as we talk about tits here).

One side was stupid and moronic to declare Ahmadis as kafir. Noone gave them authority to do so.

But then

Mirza sahib doubled the $tupidity by declaring their opponents as kafir. Because he too didn't have any authority to do so.



It just boggles my mind that an educated person like you would continue believing in "tit for tit" response from bunch of $tupid Mullahs pretending to be prophets nay gods.








See this is the same level of stupidity as the one by a tiny teeny village Mullah (or is it Mullee), declaring others kafirs willy nilly.


please avoid such kind of shenanigans if possible.

Be your own man

Have your own faith if you want any kind of semblance of peace in Pakistan.


We have had enough with the blind and deaf followers of one Mullah or another, one Khalefee or another.

Anytime a Mullah, nabi or peer starts declaring his opponents kafir, it is time to abandon him, nay shun him.


Fork all of them.

Treat them as club owners. Sure you like one club over the other, then go attend that club.

But that doesn't mean one club is kafir and other is not.


Only Allah swt will judge our faith on the day of judgement.

No one else has such authority, NO ONE!


peace to you.

I understand where you are coming from, but there is a huge difference between the fatwa of a mullah and Mirza Sahib. Mirza Sahib didn't say that whoever doesn't accept him is wajb qatul, or their women be raped, or their children burnt alive. Nor did an Ahmadi ever harass a non Ahmadi simply for not being Ahmadi.

You say that whenever an nabi etc starts calling other people kafir then abandon him but I look at the hadiths of the Holy Prophet and see that he specifically said that anyone who rejects the imam mahdi is going to die a death of ignorance, and in the Qur'an I thought it was quite clear that if you reject a prophet of God then you cease to remain a believer?

You talking about education, yep it is only because of education that I am an Ahmadi. I read the points presented by both Non Ahmadis and Ahmadis, to me Ahmadis arguments make the most sense. But I will never force that on anyone else, everyone else is free to make up their mind, this is the difference between the Fatwa of a random Mullah and Mirza Sahib (as).

Peace, I always look forward to reading whatever you write.

 

[Solomon2]

You do realize that the pole rammed up the white part of the flag is symbolic, right?

I've read that joke on this forum before. So if you saw a Pakistani flag raised via the green part instead of the white would you feel it as a sexual insult or just a violation of protocol?

 

[VCheng]

I've read that joke on this forum before. So if you saw a Pakistani flag raised via the green part instead of the white would you feel it as a sexual insult or just a violation of protocol?

The real tragedy is that the joke is so correctly symbolic of the reality. I have never seen a Pakistani flag raised by the green part so I wouldn't know.

 

[Hashshāshīn]

Please stop using word Muslim with Ahmadis... you guys are not muslims. its only ahmedis.

Who are you? and who gave you the authority to decide who is a Muslim or not?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Whatever, you believe in a flying drone messiah paratrooping down from heaven. To me that's blasphemy, yet you never see an ahmadi blowing himself in the middle of Sunnis just because we differ with you. Neither have we ever burned alive your women and children. You say my beliefs hurt your feelings, well your beliefs hurt my feelings too, do you want me to start attacking Sunni mosques and women and children? Because I assure you, It's not that we can't do what you do to us, its because we have some thing called tolerance and human decency, Which most Sunnis are missing. Maybe you should lecture your fellow citizens on tolerance and respect before expecting me to respect your beliefs.

OK please allow me to put a philosopher-historian hat on. Thank you.


Bhai meray

branching out from an existing religion is never easy.

"religious establishment" aka Khalifa will whoop your @rse if you ever try to start a new sect let alone a new prophet based branch.

Sadly. That's how established religions work.

We cannot use Ahmadiya religion as a shining example here.

Reason, it is too new.

please get a time machine, fast forward to year 2500 and start a new branch that opposes sitting Ahmadi Khalifa and we all shall see what will happen to your kin and friends.


Please note, I am sharing just historical and social aspects here.

And in no way condoning religious persecution. you know my posts too well to even infer something horrible like that.


I wish Mirza sahib was just a sufi or a peer. He would have done just fine so far. And we all would be going to celebrate his Urs

This is what Punjab's culture was.

But Mirza sahib took the ultimate plunge and violated even the most basic trends of the local culture.

Similar example of religious evolution already existed in the form of Baba Guru Nanak.

However Nanak sahib showed much better cultural acumen and used both Hinduism and Islamic thoughts to start a new religion.

Still Sikhism suffered when they interfered into Mogahl court politics.

So my point is that starting a new religion is something one should be very careful about.


that's all.

And yes I am for constant evolution of thoughts and culture.


Thank you


peace

 

[FaujHistorian]

......

Peace, I always look forward to reading whatever you write.

Same here my brother, same here.

I understand where you are coming from, but there is a huge difference between the fatwa of a mullah and Mirza Sahib. Mirza Sahib didn't say that whoever doesn't accept him is wajb qatul, ..

declaration of being "kafir" is the first step on the slippery slope of intollerance and hate.

This thing has been mentioned by all Sufi saints from sub-continent.

I am baffled to see Mirza sahib was unaware of this basic fact.



p.s. Please do not think I am being blasphemous towards Mirza sahib. I tend to question pretty much all big name guys and gals.

 

[Jaanbaz]

QADYANIS & ISIS first manipulated Islam, which gave them AUTHORITY to manipulate ISLAMIC CLAUSES according to their needs

Bravo ten points for retards who compare Ahmadis with ISIS. Show me a single incident where Ahmadis have bombed any other Sect's mosque. All the violence are coming from you people. Don't ever compare ISIS with Ahmadis. They are your Sunni brothers.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The only person capable to preventing partition was Mr Gandhi. But as i stated earlier violence and mayhem by Muslim League weakened his position and allowed the hardliners to gain momentum. Rest as you know all is history. Also Hindu Mahasabha and upto an extent RSS also played pivotal roles in this drama. @Syed.Ali.Haider @Irfan Baloch !!

I recommend read what your former foreign Minsiter Jaswant Sigh has to say few words about Nehru. that guy alone contributed to the division of India. Muslim league didnt commit any violence please forgive me for disagreeing with you.
since 1857 Muslims were reduced to a shadow of their former self and were always on the receiving end of our common occupiers and the majority Hindus. it was non-compromising and hateful attitude of the Patel/ Nehru that forced Jinnah eventually to seek a separate homeland for a sizable minority of India. you singled out the Muslim Feudal Lords and I admire your generosity but show at least 50% honesty while describing National congress leadership's dismissive and arrogant behavior towards the demands of the Muslims.

by the way you should be laughing now because the Muslims that spearheaded the seprated homeland are now being hunted down day and night and declared kafir by those who called Pakistan Napakistan and Quad e Azam Kafir e Azam.

coming to the topic
it was Bhutto.. not some military dictator who had Ahemdis declared Kafir to earn some respite and support from religious fanatics.

Bravo ten points for retards who compare Ahmadis with ISIS. Show me a single incident where Ahmadis have bombed any other Sect's mosque. All the violence are coming from you people. Don't ever compare ISIS with Ahmadis. They are your Sunni brothers.

those claims come out of the behind of these people

they are willing to eat as much crap as they can if it means they can justify their hatred to all those who are not Sunni enough. do you know in Islamabad well educated and well placed individuals believe that during red mosque operation shia SSG raped 1500 female Muslim students? note that the shia can be conveniently changed into Ahmedis if it suits the claimant. (forget about comprehending the scale of absurdness)