Pentagon Seeks Wartime Powers For Dealing With Pak

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Can you justify the apprehensions of PA, please?

Deep mistrust of US has no relevance and basis for formulation of GoP policies to ensure its writ within its own territories. Neither does this mistrust justify you surrendering in face of people out to break your very way of life. I await your answer eagerly.

Thanks

I think Blain and others have expounded upon this at length elsewhere, and going through the same arguments again would be pointless.

It isn't merely a matter of applying X amount of force in Y region to provide a long term resolution to the problems facing Pakistan.

 

[fatman17]

Precisely my point fatman. Purely meant to bait you.

Sorry but the justification for PA's hesitancy is totally baseless. Even if you are seen as "western lackey" how does it effect your combat preparedness/ability to undertake CI grid operations? How does it weaken your case to wage war against those who have taken it upon themselves to challenge the very authority of GoP which is the rightful administrator of the region and has the right to govern the territories it has as per its own rules and laws?

Can you justify the apprehensions of PA, please?

Deep mistrust of US has no relevance and basis for formulation of GoP policies to ensure its writ within its own territories. Neither does this mistrust justify you surrendering in face of people out to break your very way of life. I await your answer eagerly.

Thanks

you r entitled to your opinion which i dont quite share!

what is lacking is a coherent pak anti-terror strategy led by the civilian govt (which has been in power for more than one year and has frankly not done its homework, and which is the main reason for obama's statement suggesting that the govt does not have the capacity to deliver services to its people) and implemented by the army (if required). it requires the backing of all political parties, media awareness and in turn backing of the people!

the army is not going to do this alone (again). there is no reluctance within the ranks at all levels.

mistrust of the americans IMO is the biggest roadblock for any US led effort in this theatre, eg; joint-ops (of which i am an advocate) and capacity building of the security forces for CI (30 US trainers have been accepted reluctantly)

you can bait me all you want - my position is clear!

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan regaining control in NWFP, says Robert Gates



WASHINGTON: US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said on Sunday that Pakistan has started regaining control of parts of NWFP that were recently taken over by the Taliban, and acknowledged the growing recognition in Islamabad of the terrorist threat.

“It is my impression from the great distance that they have begun to regain the initiative,” Gates told CNN when asked about the Pakistan Army’s operations against the Taliban in Buner and other areas around Swat valley.

Gates also pledged to provide necessary counterinsurgency equipment to Islamabad.

He claimed the ‘failure’ of the agreement in Swat was a ‘real wake up call’ for the Pakistanis. He said the Taliban posed an ‘existential threat’ to the democratic government, and praised realisation on its part to confront the terrorists and extremists.

The US leader also voiced understanding of the Pakistani situation in its proper historical perspective.

Gates said that Pakistan was also beginning to develop the counterinsurgency capability, and citied America’s own experience of several years in changing its tactics after the Iraq war. About training for the Pakistan Army, he said Islamabad did not want a significant American footprint on its soil.

A private TV channel also quoted Gates as saying that reconciliation with the Taliban in Afghanistan could be harmful and would not yield positive results.

app

well, there you have it - the super-power has spoken!

 

[S-2]

"Indeed the good General should order body bags in advance for dead US Nazi Soldiers."

This should have been addressed by an authority here but I won't allow it to go unnoticed. We fought and assisted in the defeat of Japanese and German fascism at a cost of over 150,000 KIA.

One might reasonably wonder how long an American or Indian would last here with such a comment directed at the P.A? In any case, such incisive commentary really helps to define the prevailing discourse.

Your comment is one thing. That others here comfortably allowed such says more about them. Maybe many here believe your words which explains how they might go unchallenged by ALL save the Yank.

Thanks saadahmed for your input. All perspectives carry some value. Yours too. More than you could know.

 

[HAIDER]

Russia still wants to see US in Afghanistan with full action. They still licking their old wounds, crafted by US and Pakistan. But US successful to avoid any major casualty after many years of war. Afghanistan like always back to square 1.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

S-2:

I interpreted Saadahmed's comments as being made in the context of a US incursion/invasion into Pakistan.

Reading through a second time, that does not appear to be the case, so the comment will be edited.

Pejorative generalizations of the armed forces of the US and Pakistan need to stop, from both Pakistani and non-Pakistani members.

Thanks.

 

[Kasrkin]

This would indeed be a good time to reflect on the quality of discourse and the nature of participants here. I believe in impartial evaluation, as Saadahmed’s associating of US soldiers with fascists will undoubtedly seem inappropriate to and offend those whose brethren are referred to as such given how US lives have been sacrificed fighting the said menace; we should also recall the same decorum when those of us here who routinely indict the Pakistan Army of being in league with, aiding, protecting or representing the very same terrorists who thousands of Pakistani soldiers have died fighting based on little more than unverifiable hogwash. This standard should apply to all: Indians, westerns and Pakistanis. I have no doubt that many Indian and American military forums are bursting with nonsense of this nature in regards to Pakistan, but we here in defence.pk are better than that and thus this little request of self-contemplation from me.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I mean common guys is this what a sovereign Country is all about, our blind leaders should look at North Korea, Iran, Sri Lanka, Cuba, all these nations are not superpowers but they show stiff resistance to evil US policies which are against their national interests, why can't we being a Nuclear power, show any resistance to US and it's dogs???

Sohailbutt: You have chosen such wonderful "superior" nations for Pakistan to emulate. Congratulations! They are great company for you.

 

[Solomon2]

I finally figured out what is missing from the proposal: the authority to facilitate the administration of occupied territory. Which means the Pentagon anticipates only air attacks and ground raids. That may help the U.S. disrupt Al Qaeda's plans for attacking Afghan and Western targets, but I doubt that, alone, it will do Pakistanis much good.

 

[sohailbutt]

Sohailbutt: You have chosen such wonderful "superior" nations for Pakistan to emulate. Congratulations! They are great company for you.

Superior is a word i donot agree in your post Well, i donot compare them to Pakistan, but I compare their stance against US policies with our's!

My signal was to their courage in the face of US government's evil policies towards them, which they resist.

Also, let me make one thing clear here, I donot have any harsh fellings about US people, they are just like every body else in the world, it is actually the US Government's policies which I criticize.

 

[Hellfire]

Agnostic


I think Blain and others have expounded upon this at length elsewhere, and going through the same arguments again would be pointless.



then the thread may please be closed for further discussion, instead a single thread maybe continued where each new item for discussion can be posted as a new post instead of a new thread. as such all these are sourced from few basic points which eventually come back to haunt us-the core reasons behind why certain things are the way they are. And to simply ignore the basics is tantamount to ignorance being perpetuated.

other day in a thread you had actually deleted a post and given reason that any further discussion on this point and people will be looking at bans. its ok for a Pakistani National to rake up a repetitive topic and grind it till its of no use whatsoever however a reply to the same entails such an attitude. actually strange



It isn't merely a matter of applying X amount of force in Y region to provide a long term resolution to the problems facing Pakistan.

by persistently blocking the discussions on mere basis of being repetitive in nature, you are actually scuttling any possibility of any kind of discussion in the first place. your this point goes antithetical to what you have professed, for in innumerable threads we have discussed the need for a combination approach rather a purely military/political. so let us all get back to nationalistc jingoism and rhetoric and discuss that.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

A lot of my pakistani friends are taking it as a war of words---I will tell you that it is not---a lot of them are saying that it is the usual talk---and I will tell them that it is not---this thing that we are watching now is truly a precursor to something serious in the making in the coming future weeks and months.

The american news media has started targetting the pak army, the pak govt and the pak nukes with such a venegeance as never expressed and observed before. Now, what does all that mean---the stage is being prepared---the american public is being primed up---the world opinion is being setup for something big.

Pak army has never been targetted in such a manner as this before ever in the history of the nation. Pschologically, this kind of weak performance, a habbit of leaving jobs incomplete, and millitary officer corps making excuse and laying down their arms plays havoc with the troops morale---on the reverse it gives a massive boost to the morale and fighting spirit of the primary enemy in the arena---ie the indian army. The indian soldier and the indian officer starts to think differently about its arch enemy---when it looks a little deeper, it finds out that there are a lots of kinks in the pakistani armour ( psyche, personality )---what that does in return is take the percieved fear of the pakistani warrior out of the mind of the indian soldier---and when that fear is lost---the pakistani soldier / colonel becomes just an ordinary man---an ordinary man---who laid down their arms in front of a rag tag taliban---that man can be taken out by anyone.

I want to ask this question to my pakistani colleagues---you have seen and heard many an interviews and political and millitary situational assessments by RETD PAKISTANI MILLITARY GENERALS as well as couple of retd commander in chiefs. Tell me one---name me one guy who is rated less than an idiot---name me one general whose analysis has been of world class calibre since the stage up of the first gulf war---name me one, who has come up with a strategy and a game plan to benefit from the americans after 9/11.

Americans arrived in the arena with open coffers and a blank checkbook in their hands---and what did these sons of the soil do to make pakistan take advantage of the situation to the fullest extent possible---none whatsoever---they tried their best to throw as many rocks on the road to pakistans success---they threw as many monkey wrenches in the grease less gears of the pakistani machine---each one of them took immense pleasure in making sure that the progress would meet with immense resistance and no oppurtune moment would be missed to bring the forward motion to a grinding halt---.

All this for what---so much resistance to meet what goal---have you people ever taken a moment and thought about it---who are the people which are our true enemies---and do we need to go any farther than our tv screens to point out to their faces.

The war on terror as fought by the pakistani generals---I don't have any clue as to whom and what general they had been trying to copy in the history of the muslim wars, spread over the last 1400 years---or otherwise any other nation or general who had acted as such against the interests of their motherland. Anyone can name any muslim nation in history who had so many gutless warriors fighting against the house with so much fervor---missing no oppurtunity for the nation to fail---or any other general of any other nation---except for those of iraq and off course afghanistan.

Sun Tzu would have died of shame

 

[fatman17]

Hi,

A lot of my pakistani friends are taking it as a war of words---I will tell you that it is not---a lot of them are saying that it is the usual talk---and I will tell them that it is not---this thing that we are watching now is truly a precursor to something serious in the making in the coming future weeks and months.

The american news media has started targetting the pak army, the pak govt and the pak nukes with such a venegeance as never expressed and observed before. Now, what does all that mean---the stage is being prepared---the american public is being primed up---the world opinion is being setup for something big.

Pak army has never been targetted in such a manner as this before ever in the history of the nation. Pschologically, this kind of weak performance, a habbit of leaving jobs incomplete, and millitary officer corps making excuse and laying down their arms plays havoc with the troops morale---on the reverse it gives a massive boost to the morale and fighting spirit of the primary enemy in the arena---ie the indian army. The indian soldier and the indian officer starts to think differently about its arch enemy---when it looks a little deeper, it finds out that there are a lots of kinks in the pakistani armour ( psyche, personality )---what that does in return is take the percieved fear of the pakistani warrior out of the mind of the indian soldier---and when that fear is lost---the pakistani soldier / colonel becomes just an ordinary man---an ordinary man---who laid down their arms in front of a rag tag taliban---that man can be taken out by anyone.

I want to ask this question to my pakistani colleagues---you have seen and heard many an interviews and political and millitary situational assessments by RETD PAKISTANI MILLITARY GENERALS as well as couple of retd commander in chiefs. Tell me one---name me one guy who is rated less than an idiot---name me one general whose analysis has been of world class calibre since the stage up of the first gulf war---name me one, who has come up with a strategy and a game plan to benefit from the americans after 9/11.

Americans arrived in the arena with open coffers and a blank checkbook in their hands---and what did these sons of the soil do to make pakistan take advantage of the situation to the fullest extent possible---none whatsoever---they tried their best to throw as many rocks on the road to pakistans success---they threw as many monkey wrenches in the grease less gears of the pakistani machine---each one of them took immense pleasure in making sure that the progress would meet with immense resistance and no oppurtune moment would be missed to bring the forward motion to a grinding halt---.

All this for what---so much resistance to meet what goal---have you people ever taken a moment and thought about it---who are the people which are our true enemies---and do we need to go any farther than our tv screens to point out to their faces.

The war on terror as fought by the pakistani generals---I don't have any clue as to whom and what general they had been trying to copy in the history of the muslim wars, spread over the last 1400 years---or otherwise any other nation or general who had acted as such against the interests of their motherland. Anyone can name any muslim nation in history who had so many gutless warriors fighting against the house with so much fervor---missing no oppurtunity for the nation to fail---or any other general of any other nation---except for those of iraq and off course afghanistan.

Sun Tzu would have died of shame

thanks MK - can u also define what these options are (for the US that is - which admittedly are "limited" in their own opinions military or otherwise)

Thanks,

 

[S-2]

"Also, let me make one thing clear here, I donot have any harsh fellings about US people, they are just like every body else in the world, it is actually the US Government's policies which I criticize."

You should know better having lived in Great Britain for a bit but let me educate you on civic responsibility-

WE VOTED FOR OUR LEADERS.

It's o.k. to hate us as people. We assume responsibility for those lawfully appointed to serve and lead us. They are a reflection of my nation's collective will and vision.

If not, they wouldn't be where they are.

All countries choose their leaders and leadership whether they know it our not. Change it anytime you wish...

...should you dare.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

then the thread may please be closed for further discussion, instead a single thread maybe continued where each new item for discussion can be posted as a new post instead of a new thread. as such all these are sourced from few basic points which eventually come back to haunt us-the core reasons behind why certain things are the way they are. And to simply ignore the basics is tantamount to ignorance being perpetuated.

First, read the title of the thread. The discussion on the constraints faced by Pakistan in applying overwhelming military force, drawbacks and advantages is on a thread that is still open, and you can therefore read through that thread and pick up on where it left.

other day in a thread you had actually deleted a post and given reason that any further discussion on this point and people will be looking at bans. its ok for a Pakistani National to rake up a repetitive topic and grind it till its of no use whatsoever however a reply to the same entails such an attitude. actually strange

I deleted 2 posts - one was yours and another that of a Pakistani member, for posting nonsensical sarcastic one liners.

If you have any concerns over post deletion, contact mods through PM, not on the forum and threads.

Thanks