@havisultan
i am a racist now? do i, the guys like you make me sick, who feel embarrassed about their own background and all that self pity, but its not my problem because guys like you are in every nation, anyway i will like to respond your post in parts
If I have to be a muhajir to be your brother... thanks but no thanks. What is my problem. I am very proud of my Lucknowi heritage. Please don't. We went through this on another thread.
right, i have no belithe attitude but the matter of fact is you are trying to make heroes out of bengalis who called india to tackle pakistan rather then negotiations, and yourself pity attitude goes even here
Everything has an underlying cause. I outlined the cause that bubbled up into an insurgency to you. But you want to believe urdu-speakers were angels. Did no wrong. Its a very negative attitude to have.
i dont hate bengladeshis because i dont love them either, they killed a lot of urdu speakers out there, the reality which they are not brave enough to accept, i mean what did urdu speakers did to be massacred? urdu speakers were not armed, why did they kill unarmed people? muktis were atleast armed and were even trained by KGB, but whats the sense of killing innocent people when pak army was responsible for all the blood bath and not urdu speakers
They killed a lot of Pakistanis. They didn't ask who you were, just if you were from the west (PAkistan)... you are turning a national issue into an ethnic one but you are incapable of anything else. You are a racist who views yourself as superior. I do not. I understand when my folks and others like them moved they made a lot of mistakes. We even brought a rich-poor caste system.
lol the victim mentality is present because of some injustice try to negate what you just said that urdu speakers are not looked down upon as indians and still they arnt being accepted into the country for whom they gave too much sacrifices, and then the quota system was also imposed on us where the people of perticular backgrounds were prefered then on merit where urdu speakers were ahead
Do you do anything other than play the victim card on and on in rapid continuity. They did nothing. We wanted a better status than them and even after we got urdu, are richer than them we are still unhappy. It was our attitude that was wrong. When we lost everything in parts of India and came here we expected better, we expected to be kings and it was our mentality that was all wrong. You cannot comprehend this and any form of self-criticism.
second comes the self gratification? why dont we, as chak guy said most of the beaurocrats during that time were urdu speakers, if it wast for urdu speakers who werethe most qualified people who supported pakistan when there were no professionals to support it, pakistan could have crumbled very soon, why do you reject that? urdu speakers are the most educated people even today just try to listen imran khan and what he says, and its because urdu speakers are more willing to get educated and become professionals then any other ethnicity out there, our education ratio is very high as compared to others but still we are looked down
Who looks down at you? Why is it hard to eradicate this victim mentality. You look down on others. I have anecdotes from the family man, Sindhi driver is sitting and in front of him tv anchor says something and uncles are giving galis to Sindhis. You look down on the people who gave us a home when you came here.
ohh im the racist now, who started all this racist stuff in this thread by looking down on urdu speakers and that they were responsible for all the bengal mess, you are the one who started all this racism, urdu speakers laid down many lives just because of the foolishness of punjabis and pathans who raped and killed many bengalis but yeah right, we are the one who is responsible , we need to take the blame for something which we didnt do and had to pay the dear price for it because we were beurocrats and bhutto and ayub khan tried to side line the bengalis, nd while we were rotting in east pakistan in the mess, our dear countrymen didnt even came to rescue us and innocent bengalis tried to kill us,
I am trying to introduce a spirit of self-criticism. Something you can never accept, actually.
but yeah who remembers that lets remember the brave pashtuns and punjabis who died killing bengalis, who remembers urdu speakers who died for standing for their country but still they are the indians and RAW agents and traitors
Stop being so emotional. I have never been called a RAW agent. With the stuff I have gone through I could quickly have turned it into an ethnic issue. Also why don't you talk about that Jinnahpur guy, Syed Jamaluddin. He was from among people like you who got tired of so called "oppression" and sought independence. When you have guys like that people will surely suspect you. But I have never been a victim of hatred because I am an urdu speaker. I am a victim because I chose to defend Nationalist honor.
aray mere bhai then why doesnt PPP develop interior sindh, when it had the chance for five years? do urdu speakers need to take the blame for the poor condition of sindhis today? try to go to interior sindh and then punjab and feel the difference, why dont sindhi dakkos lay down their weapons and bring peace and develop their region? what makes them stop when they already had a government for five years? you know this self pity stuff really annoys me, if PPP doesnt represent sindhis why do sindhis keeping voting them again and again? if they vote for MQM or other party and if still sindh remains backward then next time blame MQM or PMLN, but the thing is none other than sindhis are to be blamed for their conditions and no one else
I did not say anything in favor of PMLN or PPP. So I don't know why this is directed at me.
mustafa kamal and not some sindhi developed karachi so we are living in a city which was developed by our efforts so why we dont share the part of the pie? karachi was a fishing town when we came and its not like we immigrated to new york city and reaping the fruits of the hard working white americans, or is it?
Share. Share... good word. Now we are talking. You have improved as a person but have a long way to go. In my Muhajir identity discourse I explained these.
1) Disassociating Muhajir identity with MQM
2) Questioning the MQM
3) Taking a more nonchalant approach to Muhajir identity
4) Criticizing the faults of Muhajir leaders and Muhajir identity
5) Learning more about this blanket term for a number of ethnic groups while looking down your nose when it comes to other ethnic groups. Questioning Muhajir identity itself
6) Disassociating with Muhajir identity by either reclaiming original ethnic identity or merging (No reason it is impossible-Punjabis, a lot of them don't even know Punjabi nowadays, very easy to merge with them or with others)
You are at 3)
now how do you explain these words now? you blame me for being racist and then you again try to hit my nerve by speaking like this, first you are being apologetic for bengalis who killed thousands of urdu speakers which you dont mention and then you put blame on urdu speakers where as it was west pakistan who discriminated them, it was ayub khan and bhutto who broke our country and you continue to insult my ethnicity
We can focus on so-called oppression all the time... but can anyone build bridges between our people? Very few. I am trying and people are shooting at me. Fine, I am neither afraid of physical or psychological bullets. I am a nationalist and pro Pakistan.
and then you say that we should give up our ethnicity? why should we give up our culture, do pashtun do? do punjabis do? do balochs do? if they give up we will too, but why should we give up our identity, is it shameful to be related to whats india today? what about those british or american pakistanis who totally fail to asimilate to their culture and try to be distinguished as canadian or british or american pakistanis today? why dont the british punjabis give up their culture?
How many times have I said you are slapping me by saying this? My identity is actually Lucknowi, not Muhajir. Some movement does not make someone muhajir. Here are the points I have made before over why both names should be abandoned:
The issues with the term Muhajir or Urdu-speaker (I am aware we have discussed this in detail but just wish to reiterate some points) for newcomers:
The term "Muhajir"
1) Muhajir is not an ethnicity due to the fact that each migrant has a differing culture, brings with him a unique family background and history and finally has various linguistic differences, in this case even within "Urdu-speakers". Point to note that Bihari, Lucknowi and Hyderabadi dialects of Urdu differ. This is discussed in detail in post 5. Our culture is Gujrati, Marathi, Lucknowi, Bihari or Hyderabadi. A wider identity obfuscates our real identity and richness of our real culture.
2) There is hypocrisy in the fact that a person from Lucknow with almost no cultural link to a person from Madras can bind himself together under the collective identity of Muhajir and look down on his Punjabi/Pashtun/Sindhi brother but cannot unite with the Punjabi, Sindhi or Baloch. The use of this term for division in Pakistan is clear for all to see.
3) Muhajir is an offensive term meaning pilgrim. It reduces a people that perceive themselves as an ethnic group to mere nomads. The question is allegations are made that the identity was not adopted by them but imposed by "other" ethnic groups. But an identity with negative connotations attached is immediately abandoned by a people with any form of self-respect. So why are they now keen to call themselves Muhajir?
4) Muhajir is another word for pilgrim. How does it describe a person who who is settled in the main cities of Pakistan and has access to the best education, healthcare and services in the entire country? It makes a people with a proud history look like nomads.
5) The term itself is a cause of insecurity amongst Muhajirs which has often resulted in the bashing of other ethnic groups in order to reiterate the fact that they are Muhajirs. The entire identity is now based on the aspects of being victims, being superior to other ethnic groups and deflecting and shifting any blame for mistakes. A look into previous posts will tell any person how true this.
6) Muhajir was meant to be a term that basically referred to all those who moved from what is now India to what is now Pakistan. However they themselves have proven it wrong. The Muhajirs that settled in Punjab now have adopted the term Punjabi for themselves, the ones in Pakhtunkhwa Pashtuns or Hindkowan's and the ones in Balochistan Baloch. Even in Karachi there are families who identify as Sindhi particularly the Memons are a case to note. Chak Bamu himself sees himself as a Punjabi. So basically the term has failed.
7) What self-respect will someone who is forever calling himself a pilgrim have left? A simple look at how discriminatory this term is will reveal the underlying reasons for a persons security. Its like forever being called a donkey. Thus the average Muhajir is forced to accept that identity and to feel secure in it insult or look down at every other person from another ethnic group.
7) The final reason is if it is simply movement from point A to point B then everyone is basically a Muhajir because since the beginning of the world people have been moving from one place to the other. The Pashtuns who came to Karachi are also Muhajir and the Sindhis who went to Punjab are also Muhajir. The term is NO term.
Urdu-speaker
1) Urdu-speaker is often used by non-muhajirs as a means to ensure they do not "offend" the Muhajir, realizing Muhajir itself is an offensive term though it raises the question once again why the Muhajir himself is keen to maintain this identity. However the flaw with Urdu-speaker is that it is simply another term for Muhajir meaning exactly the same thing and being the same wider identity for groups with cultural differences.
2) Urdu-speaker is discriminatory to those migrants who have a language other than urdu, for example Gujrati or Marathi. This is the primary reason why it is again a mistake to label people Muhajirs or Urdu speakers. It is an injustice to call a person whose ancestral language isn't urdu an urdu-speaker and as is clear truthseer has rejected this term too on account of his language.
3) Building on point 2 it raises the fundamental question that if the entire term "Muhajir/Urdu-speaker" is based on urdu-which language are we to promote? If we are promoting Urdu then what about those who speak Gujrati or Madrasi? Here we see how this incomplete term is actually killing our languages and if you look further killing our distinct cultures too by putting people with different cultures under one magnifying glass.
We do not need an extra ethnic identity in Pakistan with those already. We should have merged.
you see you are proving again and again, why im being so defensive here, you attitude and not my attitude is the definition of this course of action, you force me to be defensice where as i love my country very my and still try to hit my nerve, im always trying to portray pak as a beutiful country diverse, and post pictures from all four corners of pakistan, im the one who has kept balochistan pictures thread active where nobody even bothers because you know nobody cares for balochs but we urdu speakers love our country more than we love our ethnicity
I am sorry. But you should be more tolerant. Also this is coming from technically a migrant who is a wannabe Pashtun so it should be taken with a pinch of salt. Everyone can criticize others but few can look within.
you need to explain how are we responsible for this poverty this mess? did urdu speakers raped this pakistan for five years? you as other know very well how sindhis were sold positions in important posts why didnt PPP the so called sindhi representative tryied to solve the interior sindh problems, why didnt they make hospitals and brought development to sindh? why is a common sindhi so upset with bhuttos today? are bhuttos ursu speakers?
Go to the muhajir sooba tehreek rallies and you will know what foul-mouthed people are doing there. They will learn to be self-critical if you are. But if you blame them it can only result in ethnic war.
you are a racist, a pathetic being, thats why i say you are so pathetic that i curse the day the guys like you were born, you make us urdu speakers feeling pathetic, very low you know, if i define you the scum of pakistan it wont be wrong because in your confused path you are trying to turn us patriotic pakistanis into some racist guys, guys like you make chaos in the world rather then making peace its all happening because you are unable to satifsy your ego, you are one pathetic excuse for a human being, and im really glad you have realised this, have you seen the movie 'buttefly effect'? the guy doesnt realise in his efforts to do all the right he is infact creating chaos in the world, you are just like that guy
Please, save this diatribe. You swore at Punjabis and Pashtuns once on this forum. I am correcting you and people like you.
muhajirs didnt call themselves one till they were realised they were muhajirs and their ancestors were indians, we were forced to call ourselves mohajirs, we were forced to take that identity
Then why are you calling yourself one now. Abandon kar dey yeh identity. We are Lucknowi, Hyderabadi, Bihari anyway not Muhajir. So how did we develop this common identity with so many different people but want a separate one for ourselves that is different from Punjabis and Pashtuns. Its unnecessary division of my people.
This is false broken logic. Why take offense when someone calls muhajirs something when that identity was forced on you by these same oppressors? It is myth otherwise because muhajirs have more rights than anyone else.