Pashto to be official language: Sikandar Sherpao

[Armstrong]

Private schools don't have pashto or hindko courses, only english and urdu are taught (at least where I used to live), don't know how they plan to make it a provincial language. Instead of changing name of the province daily and changing languages, these idiots should build hospitals/schools etc

Yaar meriii bhiii tajweeez pe goooor farmaa leiiin !

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well in developed countries they allow you to learn any language .. which is great

However , they expect you the one learning to PAY from your own pocket ..

Practical languages of world are

English (Default)
+ Chinese(Number one)
+ French (Number two)


My parents state that had to learn Farsi when they were young in schools in their times now I ask you .. what good that achive Do they speak farsi .. with me no .. do they speak that at work no ...

We are all speaking Ènglish on the forums I do not see any one speaking (Sindhi , Punjabi , Mater Gashti , Balouchi , Pashto etc or even urdu )


See these tactics are just to get votes , divide the peope , and then snatch vote and get rich

 

[mdcp]

COMING NEXT
"NASWAR to be official taste"

 

[INDIC]

Forgive me my friend, but you have given me a lot emotional crap but on matters of practicality you stand at a big fat zero. Urdu is my native tongue but if it helps Pakistan and Pakistanis to get ahead in life , then I have no emotional bond with the language itself. My emotional bond is with PAKISTAN and PAKISTANIS. Whatever is in their best interest and in the National interest, that would be my stance and my preference.

As for Mr. Jinnah, I love the man for his many qualities and he was a great leader who gave us our beloved Pakistan for which we owe him a debt of gratitude, But he was neither a Prophet nor an Angel. He was Human and he was not flawless. sometimes my fellow Pakistanis put Jinnah on a pedestal and think it Allah swt, Muhammad PBUH and Mr. Jinnah. Sadly that is not so for me. Had Mr. Jinnah made English the National language ( as it already was the official language of Pakistan), East Pakistan would still be part of Pakistan. Mujib ur Rehman got his start with this issue of Urdu being the National language. Remember at that time East Pakistan had the majority Population.


You are probably a lot younger than me and I am not sure how much history you are familiar with but Jinnah sowed the seed of break up of Pakistan in 1947/48 when he told East Pakistanis that Urdu was Pakistan's national language, whether they like it or not. The day he did that, he kissed East Pakistan and its Bengali inhabitants goodbye. We never recovered from that shock and Creation of Bangladesh was just a matter of time ( in 24 years we broke up).

We had another clown named Zia Ul Haq who decided to turn the curriculum into Urdu and that turned out to be a disaster. A whole generation in that time bubble is handicapped because of Zia's act. whether you admit it or not, English is the international language and knowing that language is an asset to our youth. Indians have no problem with English and because of that India has a whole industry that thrives on CALL CENTER Business. Also the most research and development takes place in English and science and technological books are written in English.

So please get off your high horse and shed this emotionalism and learn to be practical. Emotionalism won't get us anywhere.

PEACE

Yes, we learn English but all the Indians learn their mother tongue in school as a subject and most of us learn three languages in school. (Hindi, English, regional language)

 

[krash]

Forgive me my friend, but you have given me a lot emotional crap but on matters of practicality you stand at a big fat zero. Urdu is my native tongue but if it helps Pakistan and Pakistanis to get ahead in life , then I have no emotional bond with the language itself. My emotional bond is with PAKISTAN and PAKISTANIS. Whatever is in their best interest and in the National interest, that would be my stance and my preference.

As for Mr. Jinnah, I love the man for his many qualities and he was a great leader who gave us our beloved Pakistan for which we owe him a debt of gratitude, But he was neither a Prophet nor an Angel. He was Human and he was not flawless. sometimes my fellow Pakistanis put Jinnah on a pedestal and think it Allah swt, Muhammad PBUH and Mr. Jinnah. Sadly that is not so for me. Had Mr. Jinnah made English the National language ( as it already was the official language of Pakistan), East Pakistan would still be part of Pakistan. Mujib ur Rehman got his start with this issue of Urdu being the National language. Remember at that time East Pakistan had the majority Population.


You are probably a lot younger than me and I am not sure how much history you are familiar with but Jinnah sowed the seed of break up of Pakistan in 1947/48 when he told East Pakistanis that Urdu was Pakistan's national language, whether they like it or not. The day he did that, he kissed East Pakistan and its Bengali inhabitants goodbye. We never recovered from that shock and Creation of Bangladesh was just a matter of time ( in 24 years we broke up).

We had another clown named Zia Ul Haq who decided to turn the curriculum into Urdu and that turned out to be a disaster. A whole generation in that time bubble is handicapped because of Zia's act. whether you admit it or not, English is the international language and knowing that language is an asset to our youth. Indians have no problem with English and because of that India has a whole industry that thrives on CALL CENTER Business. Also the most research and development takes place in English and science and technological books are written in English.

So please get off your high horse and shed this emotionalism and learn to be practical. Emotionalism won't get us anywhere.

PEACE

First things first, I did not use Mr. Jinnah's credibility, or the lack of it, anywhere to make my point. My argument was presented with supportive points which are very clear. Secondly, an argument cannot be discarded claiming emotional bias. Emotions are a part and parcel of every debate more so in the matters of national interest than any other. In order for them to be presented as a reason for disregarding the argument it first needs to be proven that the emotions have out rightly skewed the argument and left it redundant. Regardless, arguments are refuted on the bases of their merit. Please proceed to target that instead of the clear frustration at the sheer naivety of your proposition that I displayed.

Now, for East Pakistan. East Pakistan and East Pakistanis were just another ingredient in the spoiled broth that we ourselves created. This ingredient was handled with the least care. They did not demand separation due to the fact that Urdu was chosen as the national language but because they were treated as third-class citizens in their own country. They were looked down upon by everyone from West Pakistan. They were alienated, disregarded, disrespected and trodden on. The other four regions of the then Pakistan still practice their on local languages without so much as a hint for a demand to have them included as the National Languages, except for a desperate politician who's never gathered any appreciable support; Hint for the wise. The Bengalis were never made to feel Pakistani let alone their integration into Pakistani nationalism. The westerners ruled them in their own lands as overlords. They fought against the Westerners and every thing that was associated with them. What Muslims were to Hindus in India, Bangalis became to the West Pakistanis. That, my friend, is why we lost East Pakistan. There's a brilliant article recently shared by fatman explaining quite well the difference between what starts a conflict and what causes it. It would do everyone well to read and understand it.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/236749-origin-wars.html

Next, English would have reaped the same rewards as Urdu did, with regards to the issue in East Pakistan. The Bangalis never fought against Urdu, they fought for Bangali. A cursory glimpse at history would make it amply obvious. Again, they fought for themselves against the west because we made it obvious to them that their interests simply weren't ours. I am still amazed at how you could not see that.

Now, Urdu was chosen due to its non-ethnic roots coupled with it's familiarity to the Muslims of the then Indian subcontinent. Exactly so as to limit divides on the issue of language in a newborn country which was already ethnically divided from head to toe and showed little reason for the unintelligent eyes to unite against their draconian customs. English on the other hand was a language which the Indian Muslims not only had refused to adopt but were fighting against for the past two hundred years. A preliminary study into Sir Syad Ahmed Ahmed Khan's struggle would show you that. It does not take a history buff to remember why the Indian Muslims had fallen so far behind the Hindus in academics; it was precisely due to their refusal to adopt English. Hence, neither does it take a genius to figure out how the Pakistanis would have responded to English's adoption as their national language. This is two plus two (For now I'll leave the point about how the English language would have completely left the masses alienated and frustrated from the ruling elite on the simple bases of them just not knowing the ABCs, literally). Even if you disregard that, the Germans, the French, the Japanese and the Chinese have still not adopted English. Wonder what makes them tick. This is simple logic.

So, as was the point of my previous post, stop making excuses for everything which we have done. Stop being cowards and own up to the idiocy with which we have handled this country. It is our fault that we are still divided. Why? Because we are arrogant, moronic, self serving imbeciles who do not have an iota of regard towards nationalism or Pakistan. Which, ironically, is what plays best when it comes to self interest but we are just too obtuse to see that. We are self serving to the extent of self abuse. And then when our own **** hits the fan we start whimpering like little mutts crying and whining and tossing blame which ever direction we look first. We alienated and lost East Pakistan by making it amply clear that we were in effect Pushtoons, Punjabis, Sindhis and Balochis, we, against all reason and logic, are still divided, we are the disease eating away at this country and we keep on doing it even when we ourselves are the ones suffering from it the most, irony itself ends here. We were given a clean slate and a fresh start with all the opportunities in the world to do and achieve what ever we wanted. But as history has proven we were just another pile of scum which never deserved this country in the first place.

 

[Ayush]

First things first, I did not use Mr. Jinnah's credibility, or the lack of it, anywhere to make my point. My argument was presented with supportive points which are very clear. Secondly, an argument cannot be discarded claiming emotional bias. Emotions are a part and parcel of every debate more so in the matters of national interest than any other. In order for them to be presented as a reason for disregarding the argument it first needs to be proven that the emotions have out rightly skewed the argument and left it redundant. Regardless, arguments are refuted on the bases of their merit. Please proceed to target that instead of the clear frustration at the sheer naivety of your proposition that I displayed.

Now, for East Pakistan. East Pakistan and East Pakistanis were just another ingredient in the spoiled broth that we ourselves created. This ingredient was handled with the least care. They did not demand separation due to the fact that Urdu was chosen as the national language but because they were treated as third-class citizens in their own country. They were looked down upon by everyone from West Pakistan. They were alienated, disregarded, disrespected and trodden on. The other four regions of the then Pakistan still practice their on local languages without so much as a hint for a demand to have them included as the National Languages, except for a desperate politician who's never gathered any appreciable support; Hint for the wise. The Bengalis were never made to feel Pakistani let alone their integration into Pakistani nationalism. The westerners ruled them in their own lands as overlords. They fought against the Westerners and every thing that was associated with them. What Muslims were to Hindus in India, Bangalis became to the West Pakistanis. That, my friend, is why we lost East Pakistan. There's a brilliant article recently shared by fatman explaining quite well the difference between what starts a conflict and what causes it. It would do everyone well to read and understand it.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/236749-origin-wars.html

Next, English would have reaped the same rewards as Urdu did, with regards to the issue in East Pakistan. The Bangalis never fought against Urdu, they fought for Bangali. A cursory glimpse at history would make it amply obvious. Again, they fought for themselves against the west because we made it obvious to them that their interests simply weren't ours. I am still amazed at how you could not see that.

Now, Urdu was chosen due to its non-ethnic roots coupled with it's familiarity to the Muslims of the then Indian subcontinent. Exactly so as to limit divides on the issue of language in a newborn country which was already ethnically divided from head to toe and showed little reason for the unintelligent eyes to unite against their draconian customs. English on the other hand was a language which the Indian Muslims not only had refused to adopt but were fighting against for the past two hundred years. A preliminary study into Sir Syad Ahmed Ahmed Khan's struggle would show you that. It does not take a history buff to remember why the Indian Muslims had fallen so far behind the Hindus in academics; it was precisely due to their refusal to adopt English. Hence, neither does it take a genius to figure out how the Pakistanis would have responded to English's adoption as their national language. This is two plus two (For now I'll leave the point about how the English language would have completely left the masses alienated and frustrated from the ruling elite on the simple bases of them just not the ABCs, literally). Even if you disregard that, the Germans, the French, the Japanese and the Chinese have still not adopted English. Wonder what makes them tick. This is simple logic.

So, as was the point of my previous post, stop making excuses for everything which we have done. Stop being cowards and own up to the idiocy with which we have handled this country. It is our fault that we are still divided. Why? Because we are arrogant, moronic, self serving imbeciles who do not have an iota of regard towards nationalism or Pakistan. Which, ironically, is what plays best when it comes to self interest but we are just too obtuse to see that. We are self serving to the extent of self abuse. And then when our own **** hits the fan we start whimpering like little mutts crying and whining and tossing blame which ever direction we look first. We alienated and lost East Pakistan by making it amply clear that we were in effect Pushtoons, Punjabis, Sindhis and Balochis, we, against all reason and logic, are still divided, we are the disease eating away at this country. And we keep on doing it even when we ourselves are the ones suffering from it the most, irony itself ends here. We were given a clean slate and a fresh start with all the opportunities in the world to do and achieve what ever we wanted. But as history has proven we were just another pile of ***** which never deserved this country in the first place.

i agree with most of the part,but come on mate,you shouldnt be so pessimist about your own country.

 

[krash]

i agree with most of the part,but come on mate,you shouldnt be so pessimist about your own country.

I am not. Like I told someone here before, I bark because I still believe and hope. Someone needs to start shouting out.

 

[Porus]

@Armstrong...Who is playing the victim here? We know how you treat your mother tongue, many non-Punjabis must have witnessed it in their daily lives. PUnjabi is mostly used for the daily gupbaazi or to crack some f1lthy jokes, they switch to Urdu for sophisticated discourse or when they talk to their children. Beta Urdu main bat karo - so much respect for the mother tongue that, according to you, has produced Shakespeare and Goethe like writers. Punjabi themselves look down upon their language and consider it to be rustic and inferior compare to Urdu. Oh we know, all these sacrifices are for the sake of Pakistan.

Having said that, still nobody gives a damn what do you want to do with your language as long as you don't impose your Urdu on others. That is why I said that so many decades have gone since the debacle of east Pakistan but the Urdu lovers are still not ready to accept their political blunders and harping on the same old complaint why Bengalis didn't accept Urdu like other provinces had done (which is also not quite true).


Those few underfunded token academies are as useless as Pakistan itself. Pashto, Sindhi and Balochi should be made the official language of the provinces where they are spoken by a considerable majority.


There is a whole lotta difference between being confused about ones identity and being corrupt and incompetent. Ayubs falls under the second category. BTW, he hailed form Hindko speaking areas of KP that, according to many Pashtoon and ANP haters, should be made a separate province as those people are not Pasthoons. At least also mention those who gave you a chunk of Kashmir on a golden platter. I would like to know the name of those Pashtoons who lost half of the country.

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong...Who is playing the victim here? We know how you treat your mother tongue, many non-Punjabis must have witnessed it in their daily lives. PUnjabi is mostly used for the daily gupbaazi or to crack some f1lthy jokes, they switch to Urdu for sophisticated discourse or when they talk to their children. Beta Urdu main bat karo - so much respect for the mother tongue that, according to you, has produced Shakespeare and Goethe like writers. Punjabi themselves look down upon their language and consider it to be rustic and inferior compare to Urdu. Oh we know, all these sacrifices are for the sake of Pakistan.

Having said that, still nobody gives a damn what do you want to do with your language as long as you don't impose your Urdu on others. That is why I said that so many decades have gone since the debacle of east Pakistan but the Urdu lovers are still not ready to accept their political blunders and harping on the same old complaint why Bengalis didn't accept Urdu like other provinces had done (which is also not quite true).


Those few underfunded token academies are as useless as Pakistan itself. Pashto, Sindhi and Balochi should be made the official language of the provinces where they are spoken by a considerable majority.


There is a whole lotta difference between being confused about ones identity and being corrupt and incompetent. Ayubs falls under the second category. BTW, he hailed form Hindko speaking areas of KP that, according to many Pashtoon and ANP haters, should be made a separate province as those people are not Pasthoons. At least also mention those who gave you a chunk of Kashmir on a golden platter. I would like to know the name of those Pashtoons who lost half of the country.

The Punjabis appreciate their language fine; that segment of the educated elite that you talk about who look down upon their language & culture are the same across ethnic & linguistic groups & not peculiar to Punjab & Punjabis.

No one is imposing Urdu on others...its our Lingua Franca & therefore our national language - Nothing more...nothing less !

Having Pashto, Baluchi, Punjabi etc. to be imposed as the official language of Provinces where there are considerable native speakers of this language would have worked if our Provinces were created on linguistic lines; however, because, our Provinces have significant linguistic minorities who'd oppose this tooth & nail & the ensuing sense of alienation would rip those Provinces apart ! Khyber Pukhtookhwa is not a Pashtun province nor is Punjab a Punjabi Province !

Let each learn, within acceptable limits, their own regional languages of choice if certain conditions are met !

Ayub falls no where...he was a Pukhtoon through & through irrespective of what racists tell us & so are the Hindko speakers of the Hazara area. Heck the same ANP hosts some prominent Hindko speakers as Pukhtoon Nationalists instead of considering them people with a confused identity.

Yahya Khan & Niazi !

And I appreciate the Tribals who fought for Pakistan quite a bit....& I don't confuse them with you racist lot !

 

[Porus]

@Armstrong...I have said what I wanted to say on the language issue.

A through and through Pashtoon speaks Pastho and practice Pashtunwali, Ayub fails in both accounts, his son is a die-hard proponent of Hazara province. The majority of these people were once Pasthoon but ceased to be one when they lost their language and Pashtunwali. ANP represents all the people of KP, but traditionaly the majority of its leaders and workers have been Pashtoons who wanted their province to be renamed to KP. ANP had no other option but to respect the opinion of the majority, what it also did. The majority of their voters wants that Pashto should be made the official language of their province, and ANP has to comply again. Hazara leaders of ANP also respect he opinion of the majority and working along with their Pashtoon counterparts to fulfill their rightful demands.

Agha Muhammad Yahya Khan Qizlbash was a Pashtoon? Qizlbash is definitely not a Pasthoon tribe. Niazis in Punjab have also lost their roots. In appearance they may look like Pasthoon but in character they seem to be closer to Punjabis. It also doens't matter who is the chief of the army, a Turk or a Pashtoon - Pakfaujzindabad is dominated by a certain ethnic group and unfortunately the traits of the dominated group have become the hallmarks of the army, so no wonder Pakfaujzindabad is known for treachery, cowardice and incompetency. If the majority of the army is coward and incompetent then expecting wonders from the leader is unrealistic, even if he is Genghis Khan.

Tribals have turned their guns to the other direction, you can now confuse them with the racist lot.

 

[KS]

Tribals have turned their guns to the other direction, you can now confuse them with the racist lot.

What does that mean ? :

 

[Kambojaric]

I wouldnt mind Pashto being made an official language of the province but you also have to take into account the sensitivites of the other linguistic groups in KPK. The last thing Pakistan needs at the moment is more bickering over ethnicities and languages (BBC News - Protests erupt over Pakistan NWFP name change). Why not wait a few more years and let things calm down and then think about this or at least consider making Hindko an official language as well. Nevertheless this demand specifically at this point and time from a politcian is obviously just a ploy to win votes in the upcoming elections and any person who seeks to use such linguistic divides for his own personal gain at such a low point that the country is witnessing right now automatically loses a lot of respect for me.

 

[muse]

Let people make their mistakes - it's the only way they learn - What concerns me is that the business of the state be done in the same language in all provinces - hey want their little Afghan land, they are welcome to it, it seems to worked really well in the original Afghan land

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong...I have said what I wanted to say on the language issue.

A through and through Pashtoon speaks Pastho and practice Pashtunwali, Ayub fails in both accounts, his son is a die-hard proponent of Hazara province. The majority of these people were once Pasthoon but ceased to be one when they lost their language and Pashtunwali. ANP represents all the people of KP, but traditionaly the majority of its leaders and workers have been Pashtoons who wanted their province to be renamed to KP. ANP had no other option but to respect the opinion of the majority, what it also did. The majority of their voters wants that Pashto should be made the official language of their province, and ANP has to comply again. Hazara leaders of ANP also respect he opinion of the majority and working along with their Pashtoon counterparts to fulfill their rightful demands.

Agha Muhammad Yahya Khan Qizlbash was a Pashtoon? Qizlbash is definitely not a Pasthoon tribe. Niazis in Punjab have also lost their roots. In appearance they may look like Pasthoon but in character they seem to be closer to Punjabis. It also doens't matter who is the chief of the army, a Turk or a Pashtoon - Pakfaujzindabad is dominated by a certain ethnic group and unfortunately the traits of the dominated group have become the hallmarks of the army, so no wonder Pakfaujzindabad is known for treachery, cowardice and incompetency. If the majority of the army is coward and incompetent then expecting wonders from the leader is unrealistic, even if he is Genghis Khan.

Tribals have turned their guns to the other direction, you can now confuse them with the racist lot.

Oh Please ! A Pukhtoon is a Pukhtoon irrespective of the language he or she speaks; Ayub was more than conscious of this fact & a descendent of a Pukhtoon Tribe with noble lineage; this is the same BS racism that a few Afghans & one Pukhtoon on this forum perpetuates. Incidentally they've been caught out numerous times by Pukhtoons themselves.

Similarly the Niazis of Mianwali are Pukhtoons too ! May of them speak Saraiki or Hindko but many speak Pashto as well & they prescribe to their own unique blend of Pukhtoonwali instead of being Punjabized or whatever the hell that means !

And it does matter who was calling the shots; the Pakistan Army is a disciplined institution that has always followed the orders of its commander & chief no matter who moronic they may come across to them & the rest of us ! So ultimately the buck stops with those charged with Governance. Furthermore there is ample representation of Pukhtoons & Non Pukhtoons in the Army with countless high positions being held by them; had the Army been washed away by the traits of a certain ethnic group...there would have been resentment from those quarters of the Army, who are in quite a few numbers mind you, against that cultural imperialism.

I like the Tribals fine & I appreciate them many times more than any average Pakistani; they are after all the ones who comprise most of the FC & the Tribal Lashkar, have given ample sacrifices for Pakistan above & beyond anyother group & have always stood by us ! If the Tribal Sentiment that you allude towards rampant in the Tribal Areas....you would see the few million armed to the teeth people who live there rise up against the State, the FC to have infighting & the Tribal Lashkars to have attacked our Security Forces, instead of a few thousand miscreants who are being fought by the same Tribals !

And ANP does not represent all or even most of the people of KPK; the amount of votes casted would be enough to substantiate that ! They are a Pukhtoon Nationalist Party in a Province with significant Non Pukhtoon Minorities & many a party leaders themselves who aren't even 'Proper Pukhtoons', if your line of reasoning is adopted.

And I disagree most people do not want Pashto to be the Official Language of that Province....if that were ever put to the test through the ballot, I'd agree ! The fact that the people therein elected a Pukhtoon Nationalist Party to form Government in KPK after what 30-40 years & that to through the number of votes casted, speaks volumes about their take on things !

 

[Porus]

@Armstrong...

The majority of white Americans are of German origin but no-one in Germany looks on them as German. A person's mother tongue is still one of the basic insignia of his ethnic belonging. Many Sikhs and Hindus settled in FATA escaping the 1947 partition riots in Punajb, they speak fluent Pashto and many of them have even adopted Pasthun surnames, are they considered Pashtun in FATA? Everybody knows that Pashtuns are still by and large a tribal people and some of the most common characteristics of a tribal society are common dialect, common parental lineage (Ahmedzai, Yusufzai, Mommadzai), customary ethical code (Pashtunwali) and geographical isolation. Many Pashtun tribes migrated and settled in some parts of South Asia and northern Afghanistan, they unfortunately lost their language and ethical code in the course of time, thereby they also lost their identity and ceased to be Pashtun. I know who is considered a good “Pathan” in Pakistan, those who have some sense understand their agenda very well.

Pakistan army is considered rogue, the high command has always been mediocre and the majority mere join the army to build a career, just as their fathers and grand fathers have done before. The majority seek early retirement in order to find some lucrative jobs in the various military run companies and foundations. Pakistan army has a very bad proven record, it lost almost all the wars and battles and because of the army Pakistan has lost thousands of square KMs of its territory to its enemies and friends equally.

None of the major political party represents all the people from where it gets the majority vote. ANP is not a Pashtun nationalist party, many non-Pashtuns are part and parcel of this party and holding major positions at different levels that demonstrate that not only Pashtuns but also Hindkowans support this party. I know many will will love to see some Urdu loving fat Mullahs calling the shots in KP, but at the moment ANP is the largest and ruling political party in KP which is a good sign for KP, and FATA as well as, which has been otherwise completely destroyed because of the evil policies of Pakfaujzindabad.