Paranoia grips Pakistan :: Indian Arms buying spree unabated

[coffee_cup]

You side-stepped (since you have outlawed classification of posts, or use of evasive or substantive).

I mentioned 1947.

I mentioned 1966.

That is the point. That India reacted when 10 million refugees flooded in, and it seemed that they would most of them die. That is when we got serious. Not so Pakistan. She took to the clandestine route long before, and continued. Once again, THAT is the point.

Now that you yourselves have let the Indian genie out of the bottle, you have only yourselves to blame.

Ok here it goes:

1947: Utter chaos, both countries just got their freedom, hundreds of thousands, if not millions, lose lives. None of the countries have a "real" miliatry and is not capable of stopping armed people from doing anything.

1966, I don't know what you want with that?

Lets focus on this:

You are justifying your support of cross-border terrorism. Spotlight being on "Justifying".

Other countries have their justifications too!

Now again, think over it!

 

[GURU DUTT]

looks like you are high on indiyas national drink

and your point is ?

 

[DavidSling]

it's not actually ... this doctrine is proposed/implemented by IDF itself to counter highly concentrated air defence field and complete the mission objectives... we just have to develop anti radiation decoys (Like IDF have) to mimic an air attack ... their missiles will be exhausted in chasing and if they wouldn't the decoys will reach their stations and destroy them.. in any case s-400 shield will wear out very quickly.

S-400 is by no means the only system u need to worry about in indian inventory, that was my intention

 

[Signalian]

Can you name a single instance of cross-border terrorism that ante-dates 1966?

I dont know if migration of august 1947 falls in it but that was one bloody massacre.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Ok here it goes:

1947: Utter chaos, both countries just got their freedom, hundreds of thousands, if not millions, lose lives. None of the countries have a "real" miliatry and is not capable of stopping armed people from doing anything.

Not true. Where did the arms for the tribal raiders come from? The Pakistan Army.
Who led the raiders? Akbar Khan, Pakistan Army.

1966, I don't know what you want with that?

ISIS support for the Mizos. Please read Z. A. Khan. If you wish, I'll give you additional research material from an American researcher.

Lets focus on this:

You are justifying your support of cross-border terrorism. Spotlight being on "Justifying".

Other countries have their justifications too!

Now again, think over it!

I am not, and have never justified any cross-border terrorism. The mentions you made were left alone as that would have been a distraction. But otherwise, the usual Pakistani complaint is threefold:

1. The Mukti Bahini
2. The TTP and others
3. Balochistan

I am proud and happy (and at that time, relieved) that we stood by the Mukti Bahini. What was going on in East Pakistani was tantamount to genocide.

We had nothing to do with the TTP. They were a natural phenomenon, born out of Pakistan's carefully fostered eco-system favouring the breeding and training of terrorists, originally meant to fight in Afghanistan, but ultimately, when other opportunities failed, deployed in country. At that time, R&W was in suspended animation.

We had nothing to do with Balochistan earlier. Now that the Prime Minister has made supportive noises, I have no idea what may happen. Some initiatives may have begun at the time of R&W's revival two years ago. I do not know.

So there you are.

What justifies Mumbai? What justifies the attack on Parliament? What justifies the attacks on Army camps in Kashmir?

 

[Basel]

Paranoia grips Pakistan :: Indian Arms buying spree unabated

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Sunday, October 16, 2016
By: Defence News

• 
  

The Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has mapped out that India needs $233 billion to meet its weapons and equipment requirements in 11 years. This has been calculated according to the Long Term Integrated Perspective Plan (LTIPP) for 2012-2027. The Indian weapon purchases are so massive and diversified that it would require several research papers to explain them.


The following is only a brief attempt in that direction.

According to reports, from 2004 to 2014, 75 percent of all of New Delhi’s weapons imports came from Russia. This is understandable considering the relationship between the two countries and the kind of weapon systems used by India.

From 2009 to 2013, India and Russia struck defence deals of around US$30 billion. On the other hand, during the same period, the Indian government signed contracts worth $30 billion with France and $11 billion with the United States. These were besides what the Indian government had signed with Israel and other countries. This means that in only four years, the Indian government had signed contracts more than US$70 billion with only three countries.

The figures are staggering.

Again, from 2012-2013 to 2014-2015 fiscal years, 162 arms purchase contracts were signed by India, among them 67 with other countries, including Russia (18 agreements), the United States (13) and France (six). The Russian defence deals with India exceeded over $5 billion and with the United States around $4.4 billion.

The kind of weapon systems that India plans to purchase is stupefying and scary.

The Indian Army wants to equip all of its 382 infantry battalions and 44 mechanized infantry units with a fourth-generation shoulder-fired fire and forget anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) system. So India is procuring 321 ‘Spike’ systems, along with 8,356 missiles, from Israel. India is also purchasing one medium-range surface-to-air missile (MRSAM) regiment, composed of 18 firing units, from Israel that is known of manufacturing state-of-the-art weapon systems.

It has been reported that US defense contractor Boeing alone has won bids to supply the Indian military with 10 C-17 Globemaster-III strategic airlift aircraft (worth $4.1 billion), eight P-8I maritime patrol aircraft (worth $2.1. billion), 22 AH-64E Apache, and 15 CH-47F Chinook helicopters (both helicopter deals have a combined worth of $2.5 billion).

Moreover, the French aircraft maker Dassault Aviation has finalised a contract for the sale of 36 Rafale fourth-generation multirole fighter jets to the Indian Air Force at an estimated cost of $9 billion. The European defense contractor EADS will supply six Airbus A330 Multirole Tanker Transport aircraft for the IAF for $1 billion.

India's planned major naval assets include 24 submarines over a period of 30 years. Six Scorpene class are being built at the Mazagaon Docks. All six are expected to join the Indian Navy by 2020. Purchase of six more was cleared in 2015. The next decade will see India fielding 3 Aircraft Carrier Battle Groups effectively enforcing pure dominance in the Indian Ocean Region.

Not to forget is the license production for Kamov 226 helicopters in India, purchase of 145 ultralight howitzer artillery guns from US, purchase of 100 155mm tracked artillery guns, purchase of 280 aero engines from Honeywell for Jaguar aircraft and purchase of five units of Russian-made S-400 advanced air defense systems that can effectively stop all Pakistani ballistic nuclear missiles.


Conclusion ::

Pakistan is insanely worried about the kind of money being thrown around by India for weapon systems which the Islamic Nation of Pakistan cannot possibly match even in their dreams. It has thus resorted to an intensive Proxy War with India confined mainly to the state of Kashmir as it cannot match India man-to-man and penny-to-penny.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/Paranoia-grips-Pakistan--Indian-Arms-buying-spree-unabated-8752

There is nothing to panic for Pakistan on Indian purchases, since 1947 Pakistan have invested in systems which deny India to attack Pakistan and we have developed a ratio which we maintain against them. Although India always enjoy numerical and qualitative advantage over Pakistan but still they were not able to attack Pakistan specially since 1971 war.

They tried it in 2002, 2008 and even now but still they don't have overwhelming power over Pakistan and that what Pakistan have to maintain in conventional weapons capabilities, Pakistan must transform its military into true 21st century force while updating its non conventional capabilities to latest standards.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Paranoia grips Pakistan :: Indian Arms buying spree unabated

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• Google+
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Sunday, October 16, 2016
By: Defence News

The Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has mapped out that India needs $233 billion to meet its weapons and equipment requirements in 11 years. This has been calculated according to the Long Term Integrated Perspective Plan (LTIPP) for 2012-2027. The Indian weapon purchases are so massive and diversified that it would require several research papers to explain them.


The following is only a brief attempt in that direction.

According to reports, from 2004 to 2014, 75 percent of all of New Delhi’s weapons imports came from Russia. This is understandable considering the relationship between the two countries and the kind of weapon systems used by India.

From 2009 to 2013, India and Russia struck defence deals of around US$30 billion. On the other hand, during the same period, the Indian government signed contracts worth $30 billion with France and $11 billion with the United States. These were besides what the Indian government had signed with Israel and other countries. This means that in only four years, the Indian government had signed contracts more than US$70 billion with only three countries.

The figures are staggering.

Again, from 2012-2013 to 2014-2015 fiscal years, 162 arms purchase contracts were signed by India, among them 67 with other countries, including Russia (18 agreements), the United States (13) and France (six). The Russian defence deals with India exceeded over $5 billion and with the United States around $4.4 billion.

The kind of weapon systems that India plans to purchase is stupefying and scary.

The Indian Army wants to equip all of its 382 infantry battalions and 44 mechanized infantry units with a fourth-generation shoulder-fired fire and forget anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) system. So India is procuring 321 ‘Spike’ systems, along with 8,356 missiles, from Israel. India is also purchasing one medium-range surface-to-air missile (MRSAM) regiment, composed of 18 firing units, from Israel that is known of manufacturing state-of-the-art weapon systems.

It has been reported that US defense contractor Boeing alone has won bids to supply the Indian military with 10 C-17 Globemaster-III strategic airlift aircraft (worth $4.1 billion), eight P-8I maritime patrol aircraft (worth $2.1. billion), 22 AH-64E Apache, and 15 CH-47F Chinook helicopters (both helicopter deals have a combined worth of $2.5 billion).

Moreover, the French aircraft maker Dassault Aviation has finalised a contract for the sale of 36 Rafale fourth-generation multirole fighter jets to the Indian Air Force at an estimated cost of $9 billion. The European defense contractor EADS will supply six Airbus A330 Multirole Tanker Transport aircraft for the IAF for $1 billion.

India's planned major naval assets include 24 submarines over a period of 30 years. Six Scorpene class are being built at the Mazagaon Docks. All six are expected to join the Indian Navy by 2020. Purchase of six more was cleared in 2015. The next decade will see India fielding 3 Aircraft Carrier Battle Groups effectively enforcing pure dominance in the Indian Ocean Region.

Not to forget is the license production for Kamov 226 helicopters in India, purchase of 145 ultralight howitzer artillery guns from US, purchase of 100 155mm tracked artillery guns, purchase of 280 aero engines from Honeywell for Jaguar aircraft and purchase of five units of Russian-made S-400 advanced air defense systems that can effectively stop all Pakistani ballistic nuclear missiles.


Conclusion ::

Pakistan is insanely worried about the kind of money being thrown around by India for weapon systems which the Islamic Nation of Pakistan cannot possibly match even in their dreams. It has thus resorted to an intensive Proxy War with India confined mainly to the state of Kashmir as it cannot match India man-to-man and penny-to-penny.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/Paranoia-grips-Pakistan--Indian-Arms-buying-spree-unabated-8752

Not a big issue. $240 billion in 11 years is very small for a nation of over 1.3 billion. America has been spending over $350 billion a year on it's military for over 30 years and has a population of around 320 million. Despite this, the American military has been exhausted after campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan and it's economy has suffered immensely as a result. And Iraq and Afghanistan are ultra weak nations. Pakistan is a very powerful and large country with an economy that is starting to take off and has a fast growing nuclear weapons capability. Not to mention our conventional forces are improving greatly. Our fast expanding, advancing nuclear weapons capability will completely nullify ALL indian conventional weapons capability no matter how much they spend. Not to mention the fact that with the investments China is putting in Pakistan and it's geopolitical interests, in time of conflict with India, Pakistan would have access to advanced world class weapons systems to counter the threat ( if we havn't already) So the issue is a not starter. Move on everyone. More fear-mongering. Nothing more.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I dont know if migration of august 1947 falls in it but that was one bloody massacre.

Actually, your correct example should have been Akbar Khan and the raiders, and Major Brown and the Gilgit Guides. The massacres were two-way exercises in inhumanity, which have nothing to do with military intention, only with the sickening depths of the human being.

 

[dilpakistani]

S-400 is by no means the only system u need to worry about in indian inventory, that was my intention

Well then by inlarge their inventory is huge... very sophisticated and definitely beyond our reach ... but they have a burden of an ambition of becoming a global power... for that they're too little for another 30 years... and for us the whole point is maintaining a minimum credible deterrence so that like post 1999 every time India tried to mount itself they had to retreat because response would be irreparable damage.. For that we don't have to reciprocate in numbers.

 

[dilpakistani]

S-400 is by no means the only system u need to worry about in indian inventory, that was my intention

Well then by inlarge their inventory is huge... very sophisticated and definitely beyond our reach ... but they have a burden of an ambition of becoming a global power... for that they're too little for another 30 years... and for us the whole point is maintaining a minimum credible deterrence so that like post 1999 every time India tried to mount itself they had to retreat because the

We never strengthened people who killed your civilians. As usual, most of you come into these discussions with zero background. You are not even aware that our intelligence operations were banned by our own administration until two years ago. And since then, there has not been time enough to do the kind of network building that can mount large insurgency efforts.



Are you sure you won't have to deploy wizards on their brooms to distract the hell out of these systems? If we are talking hypothesis, let's talk hypothesis.

Well if India can have hanoman soldiers then why can't we have wizards ? No lets not talk at all buddy ... You and i are not born to agree so don't waste my time...

 

[GURU DUTT]

Well then by inlarge their inventory is huge... very sophisticated and definitely beyond our reach ... but they have a burden of an ambition of becoming a global power... for that they're too little for another 30 years... and for us the whole point is maintaining a minimum credible deterrence so that like post 1999 every time India tried to mount itself they had to retreat because response would be irreparable damage.. For that we don't have to reciprocate in numbers.

now now ... you are trying to be modest

pakistan by nature has always been the agrrasor and will be the agrassor again cause thats he only way they know how to fight PA is a attacking army not a defensive army but again good luck but i dont think india will ever attack pakistan as always it will be pakistan who attacks india ..... no hard feelings im a peace loving person here only to learn new things

 

[DavidSling]

Well then by inlarge their inventory is huge... very sophisticated and definitely beyond our reach ... but they have a burden of an ambition of becoming a global power... for that they're too little for another 30 years... and for us the whole point is maintaining a minimum credible deterrence so that like post 1999 every time India tried to mount itself they had to retreat because response would be irreparable damage.. For that we don't have to reciprocate in numbers.

Military power today is for the sheer purpose of reflecting might and power.
If U.S, China or Russia would engage in a military conflict, our world would be destroyed most likely, but they're continuing on advancing their conventional capabilities, cause it reflect the influence they want to achieve on global subjects.

 

[SHAH07]

What Pakistan does not understand is, if India invested even the 1% of the above money in proxies, whole of Pakistan will start burning.

Fake bravado, Emotional rant, belief in supernatural strength are the only trademarks which are left inside Pakistan to make the local populace believe that they can actually win against India.

Nothing will destroy Pakistan, nor India, nor west nor terrorism but the ostrich attitude.

U have been investing many in trying to destabilize and destroy Pakistan
And Pakistan army and ISI hasn't let u succeed
Pakistan is not Syria or somalia that can.be destroyed easily so stop watching times now and your stupid Indian media
Money doesn't guarantee u success if it had Americans wouldn't have lossed in Afghanistan

 

[coffee_cup]

I am not, and have never justified any cross-border terrorism. The mentions you made were left alone as that would have been a distraction. But otherwise, the usual Pakistani complaint is threefold:

1. The Mukti Bahini
2. The TTP and others
3. Balochistan

I am proud and happy (and at that time, relieved) that we stood by the Mukti Bahini. What was going on in East Pakistani was tantamount to genocide.

We had nothing to do with the TTP. They were a natural phenomenon, born out of Pakistan's carefully fostered eco-system favouring the breeding and training of terrorists, originally meant to fight in Afghanistan, but ultimately, when other opportunities failed, deployed in country. At that time, R&W was in suspended animation.

We had nothing to do with Balochistan earlier. Now that the Prime Minister has made supportive noises, I have no idea what may happen. Some initiatives may have begun at the time of R&W's revival two years ago. I do not know.

So there you are.

What justifies Mumbai? What justifies the attack on Parliament? What justifies the attacks on Army camps in Kashmir?

I don't think you want to go around the world with this narrative. "We are proud of financing/arming/training Mukti Bahini terrorists (so that they could spread terrorism in then East Pakistan by attacking schools, hospitals, buses...), but we are victims of cross-border terrorism!".

Sorry bro, but you are lying about your support of TTP. RAW has provided these barbarian terrorists all the support via Indian "cultural centers" in Afghanistan, there are undeniable evidence (which of course India will deny anyway for obvious reasons).

And about BLA: You are not saying the truth again, and you know it!

And good that you have conveniently left another barbarian terrorist organization LTTE, responsible for the killing of hundreds of thousand civilians in Sri Lanka with Indian finances/arms/training. And worse: Introducing suicide bombings in the region.

In short, India has lost EVERY moral right to complain of being victim of terrorism in the region. Because India herself is the biggest supporter of it and now has become so bold that openly threatening to unleash more of it to neighbors (sabotaging CPEC, Balochistan, FATA, MQM etc etc).

The way forward, if you ask me? India must stop terrorism in Pakistan, keep Kashmir quiet for some time and we are back in business.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well then by inlarge their inventory is huge... very sophisticated and definitely beyond our reach ... but they have a burden of an ambition of becoming a global power... for that they're too little for another 30 years... and for us the whole point is maintaining a minimum credible deterrence so that like post 1999 every time India tried to mount itself they had to retreat because the


Well if India can have hanoman soldiers then why can't we have wizards ? No lets not talk at all buddy ... You and i are not born to agree so don't waste my time...

Unfortunately, that will happen every time you come up with some gem, which has to be noted and discussed.