Pakistan's worst enemies: Mullahs and the US

[Meengla]

@S-2,
You are extremely ignorant and arrogant. At the same time Cmr. Bill Speaks is a thoughtful person.
May be you should closely watched the two hour long Senate hearing after Kerry came back from Pakistan and the angry senators asked Jones some probing questions. As Jones said, the real issues are not only of Pakistan's limited resources, the fear of blowback, the fear of Indian domination ('encirclement') in Afghanistan.
Further, if you really think the drones were not in happening without active Pakistani support then you need to education. Even the OBL raid was ultimately because of the help provided by the Pakistanis. The public reaction about 'sovereignty' is to lessen the blowback--and it is ALREADY a huge blowback despite that. Also, Pakistanis were not more pissed off about the raid as much as about the discounting Pakistan's help in the media.
Ignorant guy. If you are here to educate and build bridges then stay around otherwise go to Yahoo etc. You will find plenty of echoes there.

 

[Leader]

@S-2,
You are extremely ignorant and arrogant. At the same time Cmr. Bill Speaks is a thoughtful person.
May be you should closely watched the two hour long Senate hearing after Kerry came back from Pakistan and the angry senators asked Jones some probing questions. As Jones said, the real issues are not only of Pakistan's limited resources, the fear of blowback, the fear of Indian domination ('encirclement') in Afghanistan.
Further, if you really think the drones were not in happening without active Pakistani support then you need to education. Even the OBL raid was ultimately because of the help provided by the Pakistanis. The public reaction about 'sovereignty' is to lessen the blowback--and it is ALREADY a huge blowback despite that. Also, Pakistanis were not more pissed off about the raid as much as about the discounting Pakistan's help in the media.
Ignorant guy. If you are here to educate and build bridges then stay around otherwise go to Yahoo etc. You will find plenty of echoes there.

the dog is just feel young and strong... nothing else...

 

[Pak_Sher]

We do not have to kill any mullahs or waste any ammunition on them. We should load them in a ship and dump them in the middle of the ocean. As we know from Prophet Mohammad's Hadees that the mullahs will be the problem creators among muslims and they will be the fuel for the hellfire, plus there will be a bulk of mullah also in the hell population because of the Fitna on this earth.

 

[Leader]

We do not have to kill any mullahs or waste any ammunition on them. We should load them in a ship and dump them in the middle of the ocean. As we know from Prophet Mohammad's Hadees that the mullahs will be the problem creators among muslims and they will be the fuel for the hellfire, plus there will be a bulk of mullah also in the hell population because of the Fitna on this earth.

It would be interesting if you give a reference to the Hadith you are quoting....

 

[macnurv]

Only the Tribes that are supporting TTP, not all tribes. As far as tribes go they should be dismantled and Pakistani Government should have direct rule in FATA, integrate FATA, police law enforcement, military bases there, overall integration there has to happen... This should be Special Ops.

For a moment I shall ignore your complete lack of knowledge of Tribal Customs and Hierarchy. I would advise you to watch Fast Five, you can fast forward to a scene where Hernan Rayes (Joaquim de Almeida) advises his business associates a chapter from history. If a population views you as a invader no matter what they will rise against you and beat your bums to kingdom kong. BUT if you provide them with what they can not have on their own, you own them.
Having said that Tribes are our countrymen who have been ignored by every political/military government of the past 64 years. Provide them with school, with health care facilities, with electricity. Raise their standard of living dont leave them to their fate cause our fate is tied with their's. Right now those tribes might not have a choice because of the Pakistan's double dealing and view it with doubts. Try fighting them for the next 60 years and see where it ends us.

 

[macnurv]

Mullahs are only responsible for half of our ills, we can not only blame them. We have to accept our own arrogance and ignorance regarding our own religion. Today it has been hijacked by the loonies and the rest of us are hostages to their will. A mullah who holds no power to issue decrees can actually call you a blasphemer and get you hanged. The Maulvi Sahabs are so powerful because of our own faults.

 

[Bang Galore]

@S-2,
You are extremely ignorant and arrogant. At the same time Cmr. Bill Speaks is a thoughtful person.
May be you should closely watched the two hour long Senate hearing after Kerry came back from Pakistan and the angry senators asked Jones some probing questions. As Jones said, the real issues are not only of Pakistan's limited resources, the fear of blowback, the fear of Indian domination ('encirclement') in Afghanistan.
Further, if you really think the drones were not in happening without active Pakistani support then you need to education. Even the OBL raid was ultimately because of the help provided by the Pakistanis. The public reaction about 'sovereignty' is to lessen the blowback--and it is ALREADY a huge blowback despite that. Also, Pakistanis were not more pissed off about the raid as much as about the discounting Pakistan's help in the media.
Ignorant guy. If you are here to educate and build bridges then stay around otherwise go to Yahoo etc. You will find plenty of echoes there.

No Sir, With all due respect, it is Pakistan which has been arrogant thus far. Just look at yourselves, the most wanted terrorist is found well within your country, close to military institutions & the only concern of the majority of your countrymen has been the supposed breach of sovereignty by the Americans. A man who killed nearly 3000 of their citizens is found living comfortably within your country and rather than be profoundly sorry about that, you guys scream bloody murder and make it seem that the Americans are somehow the ones culpable in this incident. What if the U.S. took the position that you guys by the act of allowing bin Laden to take shelter were therefore culpable in the 9/11 attacks which after all could be considered a far larger breach of sovereignty? For years now the standard Pakistani behaviour has been to somehow play victims when found with hands bloody with the blood of others. It is true of the Mumbai attacks & is certainly true of the way the Americans have been taken for a ride in the WoT. The case against Rana in Chicago is certainly going to spell more embarrassment for Pakistan & its agencies. Maybe that outrage, instead of being directed at Steve would be of more use if directed inwards.

 

[third eye]

While anger towards the MUllahs is understandable, ire towards the US is not.

In any case even if both are worth hating , Pak is nurturing both.

 

[A1Kaid]

For a moment I shall ignore your complete lack of knowledge of Tribal Customs and Hierarchy. I would advise you to watch Fast Five, you can fast forward to a scene where Hernan Rayes (Joaquim de Almeida) advises his business associates a chapter from history. If a population views you as a invader no matter what they will rise against you and beat your bums to kingdom kong. BUT if you provide them with what they can not have on their own, you own them.
Having said that Tribes are our countrymen who have been ignored by every political/military government of the past 64 years. Provide them with school, with health care facilities, with electricity. Raise their standard of living dont leave them to their fate cause our fate is tied with their's. Right now those tribes might not have a choice because of the Pakistan's double dealing and view it with doubts. Try fighting them for the next 60 years and see where it ends us.

There should be no feudalism and tribalism in Pakistan. Enough of the backwardness. My point is since if any tribe is supporting TTP which is fighting against Pakistan then they should be dealt with, if a tribe is supporting TTP then that is treason how do you like that for "tribal customs".

I have a feeling your from NWFP and your sympathizing with them. I have no ill will for tribes, but TTP has to be defeated they are an internal threat backed by foreign intel agencies.

For a moment I shall ignore your complete lack of knowledge of Tribal Customs and Hierarchy.

I know about tribal customs and hierarchy, you just don't like my opinion and label it "ignorance" because you disagree with me. I know the tribes follow Paktunwali which should be banned, only Pakistani national and provincial law should rule, a country of law and order is heavenly.

Provide them with school, with health care facilities, with electricity. Raise their standard of living dont leave them to their fate cause our fate is tied with their's.

I agree with this part, investing in FATA is essential. Another reason why I am against drone strikes because I know the tribes have had enough with Pakistani Government allowing this madness.

Right now those tribes might not have a choice because of the Pakistan's double dealing and view it with doubts.

They do have a choice, their choice is support Pakistan Army against TTP and insurgents.

If a population views you as a invader no matter what they will rise against you and beat your bums to kingdom kong.

If tribal population view their own soldiers, Pakistani Army as invaders, don't you think that is a problem? They should be supportive and cooperate with PA to root out miscreants so Pakistan can be stable again. Also that makes it harder for other Pakistanis to go to FATA and invest there and do business, FATA tribes see Pakistani Government as "invader" or "foreigner" then how will they accept help of Government if Government does try and help? (rhetorical)... Tribes need to become more integrated.

Try fighting them for the next 60 years and see where it ends us.

They will lose. Tribes know this to, they are stuck on one hand you have corrupt Pakistani Government allowing drones, there are miscreants there, they have a Government failing to protect them, so many of them protect themselves. But they still cannot and should not rebel against Pakistan and remain loyal.

 

[1 ummah]

right but you know wats the reason ??
deen say doori,as u mentioned once we were ahead in sci & tech,the golden age!...it was wen we lived our own identity and were not followers ot west but leaders! and as we are away from our base,aqeeda..enemy is misusing,dividing,manipulating ......us!

 

[FaujHistorian]

......
Having said that Tribes are our countrymen who have been ignored by every political/military government of the past 64 years. Provide them with school, with health care facilities, with electricity. Raise their standard of living...

They are our countrymen for sure. There is no doubt about it.

However it is not a one way street where someone form Islamabad will spoon-feed them and treat the tribals as little teeny meeny kiddos.

Tribals are smart enough to realize that they have to do some of the following things in order to change themselves.

1. They are thinking and grown up adults (and not some robots or little kiddos), so they have to act like one.

2. They have to pay taxes on stuff they consume and follow the law of the land. For example they have to shut down hasheesh and illegal weapon bazars. They cannot drive around tax free cars. you cannot have Hashish bazars and expect clean cut businessmen to come work with you.

3. Pay electricity bills. It is not free. If you steal, then someone other tax payer is paying for it. In other parts of the country, the "line losses aka theft is 30%. In FATA the line losses aka theft is 110 fing %. You gotta fix it, otherwise kiss the development good bye.

4. If they want to be treated as fellow KUNTRY-MEN, then they have to open up their areas for business by people from other parts of the KUNTRY. Why it is that any FATA FATAN can go open shop in Karachi, Lahore and buy houses. But heavens would fall, and sky will split if the same has to be done by they non-FATAn businessmen who may consider opening up biz in FATA.

5. You want Iskools, then open up your areas for non-FATAn teachers and administrators. Make the damn area safe for others. You can't live like booney town bozos and still expect others to come help you.


6. It is not just Pakistani GORNAMENT who has to do every damn thing in the KUNTRY. We all need to pitch in. And if it is FATA development that we are talking about, then first and foremost responsibility lies with you know who? Amreekans! Just kidding.

First and foremost responsibility lies with the local people and local people only. They have to HELP create the right environment where other people can come with money and start new businesses.


Please note. This is no disrespect for the law abiding citizens of FATA. I am talking about opening a TWO fing way street of development. It can never me ME ME ME, Mo money Mo money, mo money.


Peace.

 

[AstanoshKhan]

The worst enemies of Pakistan are the old men both outside and inside Pakistan who teach young men that blowing themselves up in insane suicide attacks is the path to Heaven.

Some of these old men are foreigners. Some are natives. All of them want to see the middle-ages return in their dusty glory, and for some reason deny that the world has moved on... that there are better ways.

The Mullahs and other foreigners were never a problem for Pakistan, those Mullahs were there for centuries but they become a problem for Pakistan after 2001 when the US of A started supporting them and using them for their own sinister objectives that include the Afghan war too. And there's an explanation to all these suicide bombing and things. When you bomb a family you kill of all of them and the Mafia (with external support) gets hold onto the remaining family members and starts brainwashing them using modern day drugs and techniques. The victim's thirst for revenge adds to the mafia's motive for the destabilization of the society which works flawlessly with a high success rate.

We know who our enemy is - he's clever and smart but coward who doesn't come in open. He uses religion as a mean to achieve his objectives, he doesn't care for human rights neither humanity but for himself, he killed millions on the name of liberation and to keep the defense complexes and machinery running, he wages wars using boogeymen and other scapegoats. But he doesn't know that, his days are numbered and soon the blood of innocents is going to haunt him down very soon.

 

[Black Widow]

You must know when to say "NO".... Instead of many setback by these terrorists one of the Pakistani establishment (ISI/Army) nurturing these Mullas...

Blindly passing the buck to Mulla and USA will not solve the problem...

The Wiki Cable stated that Mr Kiyani and Pasha were ok with US drone strikes.

It is the right time to say "NO" to ISI, LET, JeM, TTP, Good Taliban and any such agency which use weapon and radical Islam as there tool.. Or it will be too late, there will not be any U-Turn

 

[Najam Khan]

Dear Arsalanabbasi,
Mullahs are not only the one to be responsible for all this mess in Pakistan. Its our beloved politicians too, our Military strategy makers and finally our strategic partners in WoT.

If your definition of 'Mullah' is the person living in tribal areas, and supporting TTP activities in any way...then the problem with these Mullahs is that its easy to buy a person who has less income, since mostly they do charity based religious jobs with less income...their is no agriculture business left in the area...no other business can earn you more income than helping TTP.

However i do think 'We' all have double standards when we use the world 'Mullah'....its the same Mullah we invite in our homes to teach Quran to or childern...its the same Mullah we need for funeral, when some one close leaves this world.....we have never given the right respect to Mullah, which he deserved.....may be thats another reason why they always bend towards bad guys!

 

[macnurv]

There should be no feudalism and tribalism in Pakistan. Enough of the backwardness. My point is since if any tribe is supporting TTP which is fighting against Pakistan then they should be dealt with, if a tribe is supporting TTP then that is treason how do you like that for "tribal customs".

So whos fault is it then? There is some thing Americans like to talk about a lot called "Cultural Awareness", get accustomed with it. You can not punish the whole tribe, this practice of combine punishment or guilty by association have to stop NOW.

I have a feeling your from NWFP and your sympathizing with them. I have no ill will for tribes, but TTP has to be defeated they are an internal threat backed by foreign intel agencies.

No one in their right mind would actually suggest that TTP should not be defeated.

I know about tribal customs and hierarchy, you just don't like my opinion and label it "ignorance" because you disagree with me. I know the tribes follow Paktunwali which should be banned, only Pakistani national and provincial law should rule, a country of law and order is heavenly.

Please refer to your own statement in quotation above. Why should the tribes abandon an age old tradition just because you say so. It may be wrong in your eyes but you can not expect them to follow your suit or will.

I agree with this part, investing in FATA is essential. Another reason why I am against drone strikes because I know the tribes have had enough with Pakistani Government allowing this madness.

Agreed.

They do have a choice, their choice is support Pakistan Army against TTP and insurgents.

No they dont have a choice at all. They can not trust Pakistan Army which have a history of abandoning tribal chieftains once a peace accord is signed with the militants. Many times this has happened, you can not blame them for doubting the will of the generals.

If tribal population view their own soldiers, Pakistani Army as invaders, don't you think that is a problem? They should be supportive and cooperate with PA to root out miscreants so Pakistan can be stable again. Also that makes it harder for other Pakistanis to go to FATA and invest there and do business, FATA tribes see Pakistani Government as "invader" or "foreigner" then how will they accept help of Government if Government does try and help? (rhetorical)... Tribes need to become more integrated.

Again, your lack of knowledge is quite evident here. Do not try to over simplify this situation. Islamabad have always ignored FATA and its people, for the most part have used them against Soviet Union. To GHQ for the most part they had considered them as pawns in the great game which are disposable. The mistrust among the tribes runs deep, until and unless you address those needs do not expect any miracles.

They will lose. Tribes know this to, they are stuck on one hand you have corrupt Pakistani Government allowing drones, there are miscreants there, they have a Government failing to protect them, so many of them protect themselves. But they still cannot and should not rebel against Pakistan and remain loyal.

Do not underestimate their will or competence to fight. They are already giving the PA a hard time, and god forbid if they declare a all out war against PA things will get out of control. Get out of this Hubris your on right now. Try to understand the gravity of situation.