Pakistani PM hails China as his country's 'best friend'

[Meengla]

@Ephones,
You have a few valid points but you, unfortunately, have swallowed the lies propagated against Pakistan without much critical analysis. I think you, like many others, are in an aggressive tone against Pakistan especially after the OBL raid. Well, I just posted a link from no less than Robert Gates himself who implies Pakistani help in nabbing OBL. That should give thinking people a pause. Time to pull back and analyze facts related to OBL, Talibans, militancy in and around Pakistan.
Specifically, I agree with you on the need for Pakistan to address the religious militancy inside. But you and most of this forum's non-Pakistani visitors have very unrealistic expectations: Pakistan needs to keep the bulk of its military resources focused on India while at the same time commit enormous resources to its western borders while at the same time shut down all the madrassahs and storm Lal Masjids and take casualties in scores every week while trying just to keep the security forces from themselves being blown up by the myriad Jihadis who made Pakistan their home since 1979, all this time while Pakistani economy and national fabric getting destroyed because of a war lasting almost 10 years INSIDE Pakistan, not to mention the bloodbath inside Indian Kashmir since 1989 and Afghanistan since 1979?
When will the 'do more' mantra ever be tempered by facts and realities?
To you and many others the violence resulting from the attack against the goons of Lal Masjid is nothing? To you and many others the death of Benazir Bhutto, Salman Taseer, Shahbaz Bhatti, Mufti Naeem, tens of thousands of civilians and soldiers at the hand of the religious militants is nothing? Tell me: Why are the militants attacking Pakistanis if Pakistan is not 'doing enough' against them? Pakistani operation against one Lal Masjid alone caused so much bloodshed.
The problem in China's Northwest is a problem for China to tackle. For every Chinese militant finding 'refuge' inside Pakistan there are probably 100 who actually reside in China. The terrain is too rough for an easy sneaking in and out.
Finally, learn to think critically instead of spouting what you may have just found on Fox News or CNNs of this world.

 

[Obambam]

What he did is so much relevant to today's Pakistan. Nobody in today's Pakistan dare to challenge his policy to get Pakistan into state's islamization set up about 30 years ago. All education, economics and etc policies have relations with that. If you compare the growth between Turkey and Pakistan, what exactly is the fundamental difference between the two countries???

Why are you comparing Pakistan with Turkey now? Turkey is in the west, not sanctioned and is protected by NATO. They don't have issues which Pakistan is having today. It's is folly to compare the two like that. It's almost like a spin off of Democracy vs Communism. Both different and both have it's ups and down and both can evolve into something different over time. Don't see how people are laughing at China when it comes to economy and education do we? It is widely believed that the ideology of Communism produces robots that lacks innovation and critical thinking. It is also widely believed that people will never become rich because everything belongs to the state. Well, those stories are fast being shelved away on the dusty history section of the library.

Stop dwelling in the past bro, it won't change anything. Only now and the future matters.

 

[ephone]

From your point of view, you want to change the entire Muslim world, even to advocate interference in internal affairs, which is a direct declaration of war. But if we can increase communication, to develop trade and cultural ties, stop the war and intervention, it is better than Western hypocrisy of preaching .

Where did you get that inference exactly???

 

[ephone]

Turkey is the west??? really??? Last time I check it is still a secular country with majority muslim population. Tell me which authority has classified Turkey as the west???

Turkey has its issues with kurdish separatists, its feud with Greece over Cyprus and fought wars with greece in the past, its historical massacre problem with Armenia and etc...

So I do not think Turkey has that few problems as well.

At the same time, you put my comparison between Pakistan and Turkey similar as comparison between Democracy and Communism, are you out of your mind???

Why are you comparing Pakistan with Turkey now? Turkey is in the west, not sanctioned and is protected by NATO. They don't have issues which Pakistan is having today. It's is folly to compare the two like that. It's almost like a spin off of Democracy vs Communism. Both different and both have it's ups and down and both can evolve into something different over time. Don't see how people are laughing at China when it comes to economy and education do we? It is widely believed that the ideology of Communism produces robots that lacks innovation and critical thinking. It is also widely believed that people will never become rich because everything belongs to the state. Well, those stories are fast being shelved away on the dusty history section of the library.

Stop dwelling in the past bro, it won't change anything. Only now and the future matters.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Where did you get that inference exactly???

1, you are dissatisfied with the Declaration on the traditional Muslim world.

2, I said non-interference in internal evidence, so that their people themselves to resolve. you oppose my point of view. In other words, you think that even if the interference in internal affairs, but also want to impose their own values.

 

[Meengla]

It is widely believed that the ideology of Communism produces robots that lacks innovation and critical thinking. It is also widely believed that people will never become rich because everything belongs to the state. Well, those stories are fast being shelved away on the dusty history section of the library.

Indeed, time to revisit all we discarded or cherished without critical thinking.
Admittedly, I too used to think citizens inside communist countries were like 'drones', constantly monitored. I still don't know the truth. But I have three friends here in America who are from the former Soviet Republics--all different ones--and they think they had it better than now.

 

[huzihaidao12]

You do not even know that Turkey has always been protected by the European, because they never want to have a chaotic Muslim country to be their neighbor? of course, the Turkish military to defend the national interests to a certain extent, is also a reason for out of interference from the West. other Muslim countries and developing countries not so lucky. Of course, even if Turkey is not free, when they show the will of independence, when trouble in the future.

 

[ephone]

Trust me, I am not a fan of fox news either and I never watch it.

If you look at my posts, you should have read already that I indeed acknowledge the tremendous suffering Pakistan has endured and Pakistan indeed commit a lot of resources as well.

I have NEVER indicate Pakistan as a whole helped OBL and its associates anywhere in my posts either. I indeed acknowledge Pakistan indeed help a lot during WOT. So what you have suggested is already done by me.

However, there is no denying that there are certain factions/members within your public, military and ISI who are OBL and Taliban sympathizers and they provide safe haven for those terrorists within Pakistan. I do believe they are not simply lower-rank officers. So what I simply suggest is that Pakistan need clean house to make it actually work. As long as you have people playing sabotage roles, it will be very hard to achieve such goal.

Actually, as I have mentioned, your former president Musharraf holds the same view as well.

@Ephones,
You have a few valid points but you, unfortunately, have swallowed the lies propagated against Pakistan without much critical analysis. I think you, like many others, are in an aggressive tone against Pakistan especially after the OBL raid. Well, I just posted a link from no less than Robert Gates himself who implies Pakistani help in nabbing OBL. That should give thinking people a pause. Time to pull back and analyze facts related to OBL, Talibans, militancy in and around Pakistan.
Specifically, I agree with you on the need for Pakistan to address the religious militancy inside. But you and most of this forum's non-Pakistani visitors have very unrealistic expectations: Pakistan needs to keep the bulk of its military resources focused on India while at the same time commit enormous resources to its western borders while at the same time shut down all the madrassahs and storm Lal Masjids and take casualties in scores every week while trying just to keep the security forces from themselves being blown up by the myriad Jihadis who made Pakistan their home since 1979, all this time while Pakistani economy and national fabric getting destroyed because of a war lasting almost 10 years INSIDE Pakistan, not to mention the bloodbath inside Indian Kashmir since 1989 and Afghanistan since 1979?
When will the 'do more' mantra ever be tempered by facts and realities?
To you and many others the violence resulting from the attack against the goons of Lal Masjid is nothing? To you and many others the death of Benazir Bhutto, Salman Taseer, Shahbaz Bhatti, Mufti Naeem, tens of thousands of civilians and soldiers at the hand of the religious militants is nothing? Tell me: Why are the militants attacking Pakistanis if Pakistan is not 'doing enough' against them? Pakistani operation against one Lal Masjid alone caused so much bloodshed.
The problem in China's Northwest is a problem for China to tackle. For every Chinese militant finding 'refuge' inside Pakistan there are probably 100 who actually reside in China. The terrain is too rough for an easy sneaking in and out.
Finally, learn to think critically instead of spouting what you may have just found on Fox News or CNNs of this world.

 

[Obambam]

Turkey is the west??? really??? Last time I check it is still a secular country with majority muslim population. Tell me which authority has classified Turkey as the west???

Turkey has its issues with kurdish separatists, its feud with Greece over Cyprus and fought wars with greece in the past, its historical massacre problem with Armenia and etc...

So I do not think Turkey has that few problems as well.

At the same time, you put my comparison between Pakistan and Turkey similar as comparison between Democracy and Communism, are you out of your mind???

Yes Turkey is to the west of Pakistan unless I am wearing my glasses the wrong way round? They are also in it whenever we have the UEFA Cup, UEFA Champions League and European Cups. So surely they are not Asian?

I think you are the one out of your mind. You are too fanatical with your idea and believes without knowing more about the history of Pakistan and Al Qaeda. There is no point blindly pushing your own concept without first knowing thoroughly what you are talking about. Talibans, Mujahadeens and now Al Qaeda were seeds planted by America. So are you going to continue soaking up the Western propaganda and continue to preach to the readers that it is entirely Pakistan's fault?

 

[huzihaidao12]

Enough has been said, sir, Pakistan should go to cleaning the house, that is good, but you please tell me how Pakistan to sweep some uninvited guest from other countries such as India. the United States can help?

 

[ephone]

From historical perspective, that is why I said Turkey is on the right track of development and Pakistan is not. Pakistan used to be on the right track under Ali Bhutto but was side-tracked since Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq's state's islamization of Pakistan, sharia laws and etc. Even after his death in 1988, nobody dare to challenge his policy since nobody wanted to be classified as anti-islam.

You do not even know that Turkey has always been protected by the European, because they never want to have a chaotic Muslim country to be their neighbor? of course, the Turkish military to defend the national interests to a certain extent, is also a reason for out of interference from the West. other Muslim countries and developing countries not so lucky. Of course, even if Turkey is not free, when they show the will of independence, when trouble in the future.

---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 PM ----------

How many current terrorists in Pakistan are actually from India???

Enough has been said, sir, Pakistan should go to cleaning the house, that is good, but you please tell me how Pakistan to sweep some uninvited guest from other countries such as India. the United States can help?

 

[ephone]

Is that a joke??? Your "west" is for directional purpose??? how hilarious!

In addition, you pin your blame of all of the terrorist problems on America??? U.K. has joined U.S. on every operation of WOT. Well, you also dwell on the "evil" west, why do you stay there??? Isn't that hypocritical enough already?

Yes Turkey is to the west of Pakistan unless I am wearing my glasses the wrong way round? They are also in it whenever we have the UEFA Cup, UEFA Champions League and European Cups. So surely they are not Asian?

I think you are the one out of your mind. You are too fanatical with your idea and believes without knowing more about the history of Pakistan and Al Qaeda. There is no point blindly pushing your own concept without first knowing thoroughly what you are talking about. Talibans, Mujahadeens and now Al Qaeda were seeds planted by America. So are you going to continue soaking up the Western propaganda and continue to preach to the readers that it is entirely Pakistan's fault?

 

[Meengla]

@Ephone,
But did you know that senior most Army generals have been targeted by the militants inside the places of workship? Did you know that the Corps Cmdr. of Karachi (or was it some senior Naval officer) was targeted in Karachi a few years ago? Did you know that President Musharraf himself was targeted at least twice by these militants? Did you know that the militants have declared Pakistan has 'enemy #1' after OBL death? Did you know that ISI buildings and officials have been targeted by these militants?
All these simply not make the case that senior officials in ISI are involved. I will not deny the possibility that some jihadis are out there doing their stupid business. Just like the bodyguard of Gov. Salman Taseer who killed Taseer.
Anyway, much of the media war/aggression against Pakistani security agencies is coming because of the OBL raid and most of the narrative has been formed by the corporate American media about Pakistan. Statements like from Rumsfeld and Gates are played down intentionally to corner Pakistan.

 

[S.M.R]

China has proved to be Best friend of Pakistan. Action speaks louder than words, and China from its actions proves that to be true.

Long live Long live

 

[53fd]

For this part of history, you seriously think Pakistan’s insistence made U.S. decide to establish normal relationship with China???

It is an established fact that Pakistan played a huge part getting China on the world map. At the time, China was ripe with problems, & had very little good to talk about in the eyes of the world.

After the “defeat” in korean war and eminent defeat in Vietnam war, U.S. power has been shadowed by the ever-present U.S.S.R challenge. U.S. need find a major country to counter-balance U.S.S.R. seemingly global dominance then.

Despite military defeats in the wars, there were actually huge economic 'successes' made by these wars, as the revenue generated from the military industry was enormous, & that it what the US is really good at. Using up the revenues generated by its military industry to shore up the economy. If you look at the value of the dollar & the growth rate of the US economy at the time, it was one of the highest in the country's history, & helped shore up their revival after the country's economic meltdown in the 20s.

Possible candidates: Myanmar, France, maybe U.K., or certain African countries or certain other European countries that has normal relationship with both countries.

Pakistan had extremely close ties with the US at the time, not normal ones like Burma & others. And I don't think France, UK would lobby for China at the time.

The reason why AQ terrorists was so hard to get rid of is that they do not have a central leadership like a government. They are loosely connected terrorists organizations. There are no central locations for them as well. They indeed follow similar ideology: one of them is to get rid of those non-believers (“heretics”) and establish an islam empire. You did not know AQ’s four principal enemies of islam??? The other three are: shia muslim, America and Israel.

No offense, but frankly speaking, you know very little about Islamic extremism in the region. I encourage you to read up on it in more detail. If you think it is inherent solely to Pakistan (or Afghanistan), you could not be more wrong. The US helped evolve various extremist Islamic groups inside former territories of the Soviet Union at the end of the Cold War, & there is much more dangerous international Islamic extremism (al-Qaeda affiliates) that China should be wary of in places like Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan than from Pakistan. The International Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) is a huge bane for both Uzbekistan & Tajikistan, & northern parts of Afghanistan as well; & is a huge threat for Pakistan as well, & can potentially be for China in the near future as well. There are plenty of other Al-Qaeda affiliated groups in these countries as well.

Please do not indicate those on my head. I have not thought so and that is why I said China stood up for Pakistan without considering that that much. I wrote those simply replying your comments, you forgot what you have written??? Let me remind you of YOUR words:

I responded to you because you thought Pakistan basically brought challenges for China, implying that Pakistan could be more of a nuisance to be dealing with in the future than a friend. I hope I'm clear with my post. Cheers.