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Pakistani PM hails China as his country's 'best friend'

"blame Pakistan"???

You read my post carefully??? Is my intention to write the posts to blame Pakistan??? All my intention is express a valid concern and hope Pakistan can do more to get rid of those terrorists within its border. It is not a blame game/post.

As for China's support towards Pakistan, I indeed think that is the right way as well.

However, no matter how much support we provide for Pakistan, it will be tremendously hard for Pakistan to move forward even though many members here have sincerely hope Pakistan can grow like China in the past 30 years.

Seriously, is it realistic for Pakistan to have any growth similar like what China has achieved in the past 30 years? How about even half of that???

Honestly, I do not think it is possible for Pakistan to do anything close to that even solving its terrorist problems within its borders. We all have best wishes for Pakistan but as long as I have put forward a valid concern, all of the bricks are thrown onto me. Of course, I know to play safe, the best way to write a post is just to sing along with everybody else about our friendship day in and day out.

Does that help Pakistan that much??? We have been providing help to Pakistan for the past decades, how many progress have we seen so far??? Looking at Pakistan's development over the past decades since its development, why don't someone here tell me which era Pakistan indeed enjoy its fastest development and which era Pakistan has slowed down dramatically? What are the differences of the political atmosphere Pakistan has between those two eras???

ePhone bro.. I understand where you are coming from.. As a matter of fact, Pakistanis themselves are trying to get out of this mess we are in.. and as many of my Pakistani friends want to put burden of pulling us out of the mess on to China.. I am highly against it, taking help from a friend is okay, but we have to tackle our own problems by ourselves..

As far as growth of Pakistan's economy is concerned, We have a very resilient nature in that, Pakistan's economy has gone through many difficult times but we haven't ever been on the position of 1951 again, we have developed consistently, even now, when whole of the world is in economic crises, Pakistan's economy is showing resilience, its not crashing..

It is sad that we have been led by traitors and selfish leaders throughout our 60+ years but that was purely due to low education levels.. It is slowly changing.. gradually, people who are illetrate are also understanding short comings of our Political system.. people are waking up to the harsh realities.. people have started questioning the authorities..

Come on.. give us some credit.. our nation is only 63 years old, we are making mistakes, we are fumbling, but that’s how nations learn.. don’t you agree??

We have honestly been lucky to have China as our friend since beginning, an all weather friend.. and we are proud of this friendship..

One thing I can guarantee you, the moment we came out of this mess, the moment we got a good leader with honest team, you’ll be amazed at the speed we’ll develop..

Here is a link for a good read about Pakistan’s economic growth over 63 years..

Economy of Pakistan
 
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"blame Pakistan"???

You read my post carefully??? Is my intention to write the posts to blame Pakistan??? All my intention is express a valid concern and hope Pakistan can do more to get rid of those terrorists within its border. It is not a blame game/post.

As for China's support towards Pakistan, I indeed think that is the right way as well.

However, no matter how much support we provide for Pakistan, it will be tremendously hard for Pakistan to move forward even though many members here have sincerely hope Pakistan can grow like China in the past 30 years.

Seriously, is it realistic for Pakistan to have any growth similar like what China has achieved in the past 30 years? How about even half of that???

Honestly, I do not think it is possible for Pakistan to do anything close to that even solving its terrorist problems within its borders. We all have best wishes for Pakistan but as long as I have put forward a valid concern, all of the bricks are thrown onto me. Of course, I know to play safe, the best way to write a post is just to sing along with everybody else about our friendship day in and day out.

Does that help Pakistan that much??? We have been providing help to Pakistan for the past decades, how many progress have we seen so far??? Looking at Pakistan's development over the past decades since its development, why don't someone here tell me which era Pakistan indeed enjoy its fastest development and which era Pakistan has slowed down dramatically? What are the differences of the political atmosphere Pakistan has between those two eras???

Bro, I don't know what compelled you to make such statements. Majority expects Pakistan to be like China and to reach China's level in 30 years or even half that? I don't think anyone said anything or made comparisons between the two like that at all.

In regards to your concerns about the help provided to Pakistan by China and the level of improvements made. I am sure our Pakistani brothers and sisters can give you more insight on it. Help includes infrastructures, energy and investments as well as political and military backing. No one can expect huge and instant success. The fact that we are different and face different uncertainties makes it unfair to compare China with Pakistan. I believe more and more help will be on the way and as soon as Pakistan becomes a part of the SCO alliance, they will be provided with help from all the member states. We expect help and changes to occur incrementally.

We cannot be like the Americans and be pushy about it. They are doing all they can to stabilize their own country and the region. Being in the middle of an American fuelled war; worried about it's economy, energy needs, defense and future uncertainties, we cannot expect anymore from Pakistan. Instead of expecting and pushing, we should be helping them and pursue joint efforts to bring peace and harmony into the region. One must not rely heavily on another to determine the outcomes, but instead takcle problems together like all brothers should.
 
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As I said, you have no possible way of knowing that. And like I told you before, the first suicide bombing Pakistan faced inside the country was after 2004, when the US had already pushed Al-Qaeda terrorists inside Pakistani territory. I am very optimistic that this will all come to an end when this WOT is over.



No, it's good for Pakistan as well, of course. It presents several challenges as well though.

TRUE. In the past, there are also more convenient ways for China to get energy, e.g. from Russia. However, Russia government played double-faced games with China and kept breaking promises. So China finds other options as well. Honestly, I think India has been played and cheated by Russia for its carrier built by Russia. China is smarter enough to not be trapped in the similar situation. About whether Al-Qaeda terrorists inside Pakistani territory will end their terrorists activities, I think you are just too optimistic. U.S. withdraws from Iraq, but I do not think those Al-Qaeda terrorists have left either.

The first trip Kissinger made to China was in September 1970 through Pakistan's insistence, when the US was a huge superpower, when the collapse of the Soviet Union was not anywhere in sight. At the time, it was Pakistan that stood up for China, & made its presence known in the world.

For this part of history, you seriously think Pakistan’s insistence made U.S. decide to establish normal relationship with China??? After the “defeat” in korean war and eminent defeat in Vietnam war, U.S. power has been shadowed by the ever-present U.S.S.R challenge. U.S. need find a major country to counter-balance U.S.S.R. seemingly global dominance then. When China fought Russia over border at Treasure Island in the end of 1960s, U.S. saw such a great opportunity to get China closer to U.S., far away from Russia. It is U.S. immediate interest to establish normal relation with China to fight Russia’s global dominance scheme and U.S. need keep China in its side since it has already been bitten twice in Korean war and Vietnam war already. Pakistan indeed played an important role in establishment of normal relationship between the two. However, your indication that without Pakistan, China and U.S. would not establish normal relationship is simply exaggeration. The return to normal relationship for U.S. and China is historically inevitable. As I have said, if Pakistan had not played that role, there will be another country that would have. Of course, I am glad Pakistan did.


Tell me which country would have marketed China to the US, that was favorable in the eyes of the US in 1970. Japan? No. Anyone else?
Possible candidates: Myanmar, France, maybe U.K., or certain African countries or certain other European countries that has normal relationship with both countries.

Pakistan is well aware of it, which is why it is trying to end this WOT asap, because it (the WOT) is further worsening the situation of the region. But it looks like the WOT is coming to a close, & don't be surprised to see things go pretty much back to normal again.



I don't think it is a concern, because most of the international AQ terrorist network is in Kunar, Nuristan Afghanistan; not Pakistan. Pakistan only has 'local' Pashtun groups that don't follow the same ideology, or have the same traditions as the Muslims in Xinjiang. Meaning they won't get along with them. Pakistan's Pashtun groups are more allied on the basis of tribal affiliations than they are with anything else. Everyone hates the other few AQ terrorists & their affiliates, & they are being fought against everyday. China should be afraid of the AQ terrorists & their affiliates with respect to Xinjiang, even the US is now in peace treaties with the local Pashtun groups in Afghanistan. China does not need to be wary of them.
The reason why AQ terrorists was so hard to get rid of is that they do not have a central leadership like a government. They are loosely connected terrorists organizations. There are no central locations for them as well. They indeed follow similar ideology: one of them is to get rid of those non-believers (“heretics”) and establish an islam empire. You did not know AQ’s four principal enemies of islam??? The other three are: shia muslim, America and Israel.


But none of them is as convenient & efficient as this, as well as the most cost effective way as this.

Of course we know that. However, it may be most cost effective. If it creates too much trouble, China has to find other options and China will for sure.

Of course it will.



There are some separatists inside Pakistan in Balochistan that don't want China exploiting their resources. These separatists are funded from Afghanistan. There is also the international coverage & negative image given to Pakistan from the international media on this.

I heard about that as well. As I have said, if Pakistan objects to that, China will for sure abide by.


Yes, China has stood up more times for Pakistan than vice versa, & Pakistan is eternally grateful to China for that. Pakistan has never considered "Standing up for China has been detrimental to Pakistan", & in fact, no Pakistani has ever thought that, including me. But you probably do think the vice versa is true, even though most Chinese people don't think that.

Please do not indicate those on my head. I have not thought so and that is why I said China stood up for Pakistan without considering that that much. I wrote those simply replying your comments, you forgot what you have written??? Let me remind you of YOUR words:
“Pakistan also brought China to the international scene with Kissinger's trip to China, when China was renowned mainly for human rights violations & Communism. Standing up for China then could have been detrimental for Pakistan's interests as well. Pakistan's projects with China to facilitate the energy corridor is already bringing a negative image for Pakistan from the international world.”

My replies are embedded bolded above.
 
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You have not read those posts saying that "China has nothing or has been very backward initially before open and reform, in the past 30 years, China has grown into a major power and has enjoyed economic development afterwards. Pakistan will have similar growth like China did with China's help and etc".??? It surely is not exact wording but the meaning is similar.

I have no doubt that China should help Pakistan.

What I am trying to say that Pakistan has major problems to overcome and the most difficult one is the terrorist problems within its border. Without overcoming that, all of the growth talk is just wishful thinking. And only Pakistan itself can deal with that problem and the sooner it has been taken care of, the better Pakistan will be on its way to development. However, it is not that easy since it has been deeply rooted in Pakistan since those terrorists indeed enjoy broad support, not only from public but from certain military as well as certain ISI.

As I have mentioned, since general Zia-ul-Haq took over, Pakistan was on a way to the state's Islamization. Honestly speaking, Pakistan was in a worsen shape ever since.

In addition, there is nowhere I have suggested that China behaves like U.S. does. China has not played interference role for so long already. It won't change such policy for the foreseeable future.

Bro, I don't know what compelled you to make such statements. Majority expects Pakistan to be like China and to reach China's level in 30 years or even half that? I don't think anyone said anything or made comparisons between the two like that at all.

In regards to your concerns about the help provided to Pakistan by China and the level of improvements made. I am sure our Pakistani brothers and sisters can give you more insight on it. Help includes infrastructures, energy and investments as well as political and military backing. No one can expect huge and instant success. The fact that we are different and face different uncertainties makes it unfair to compare China with Pakistan. I believe more and more help will be on the way and as soon as Pakistan becomes a part of the SCO alliance, they will be provided with help from all the member states. We expect help and changes to occur incrementally.

We cannot be like the Americans and be pushy about it. They are doing all they can to stabilize their own country and the region. Being in the middle of an American fuelled war; worried about it's economy, energy needs, defense and future uncertainties, we cannot expect anymore from Pakistan. Instead of expecting and pushing, we should be helping them and pursue joint efforts to bring peace and harmony into the region. One must not rely heavily on another to determine the outcomes, but instead takcle problems together like all brothers should.
 
.
"blame Pakistan"???

You read my post carefully??? Is my intention to write the posts to blame Pakistan??? All my intention is express a valid concern and hope Pakistan can do more to get rid of those terrorists within its border. It is not a blame game/post.

As for China's support towards Pakistan, I indeed think that is the right way as well.

However, no matter how much support we provide for Pakistan, it will be tremendously hard for Pakistan to move forward even though many members here have sincerely hope Pakistan can grow like China in the past 30 years.

Seriously, is it realistic for Pakistan to have any growth similar like what China has achieved in the past 30 years? How about even half of that???

Honestly, I do not think it is possible for Pakistan to do anything close to that even solving its terrorist problems within its borders. We all have best wishes for Pakistan but as long as I have put forward a valid concern, all of the bricks are thrown onto me. Of course, I know to play safe, the best way to write a post is just to sing along with everybody else about our friendship day in and day out.

Does that help Pakistan that much??? We have been providing help to Pakistan for the past decades, how many progress have we seen so far??? Looking at Pakistan's development over the past decades since its development, why don't someone here tell me which era Pakistan indeed enjoy its fastest development and which era Pakistan has slowed down dramatically? What are the differences of the political atmosphere Pakistan has between those two eras???

I'm sure you do not have enough understanding of my words.

Yes, I have no objection to your call Pakistan for more action to tackle terrorism. I just think your "blame" is too simple. Blame is simple, but you really understand the chaos in Pakistan and even the situation in Central and South Asia They each shady forces. you is not enough to know here. take some time to read some news and discussion in the PDF. Terrorism is not a name, each related to each player's interests. you can not find the root cause, not to address root causes, only to act against Pakistan have not enough action. Brother, you are too simple idea. A Chinese saying "Every door has a key" , you can call to open the door as soon as possible, but in fact, Pakistan do not have enough capacity to get those who need the key, you need to help Pakistan to get those keys, if you really want to quickly open the door.

Not to compare Pakistan and China, China is a big country, Pakistan is a small country. Of course, even so, China made far better than Pakistan. We are the Renaissance from the ruins, we work hard and generously blood, sweat, tears , not many countries can compare and China. no offense, but it is a fact that is too harsh for other developing countries. Of course, Pakistan's leaders certainly have a blame in this, but then what? If you just be satisfied loudly to blame, it does not help to resolve the matter. like I said, it did not stop a game, has continued to the present, so to understand more Pakistan difficult, also thank tolerance. from what I see, I believe Pakistani people are really angry for those who extremism.

This is all, hope you can learn more about the international geopolitics, and then you can understand what I mean.
 
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Simply put, "every door has a key, "but how do you think about terrorism in Central Asia and South Asia, a "terrorist"can cover all ? It is only one door? a key can open? The United States believes he can open all doors, as long as a key - power, he thought he was strong, but the fact is that do not find the keys for all doors, with brute force want to smashed the door is not a good way to go.
 
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First, please understand my comments have nothing condescending towards Pakistan. Just like when I observe what China has did in the past several decades, I, including majority of Chinese, acknowledged what chairman Mao's stupid policies, e.g. great leap forward, culture revolutions and etc, did to China. China was on the brink of collapse when he died. (Well, I do still consider Mao a great figure historically to China even though he made so many mistakes and causes so many Chinese died due to his personal ego as well as other problems.) We enjoyed Growth for the first 10 years after PRC and after open and reform. We also made way more serious mistakes.

I do agree education is so much important for a country to grow. That is how your former president Ali Bhutto had done. Of course he also made many mistakes. However, I think Pakistan would have been in a much better shape if he was in power. Pakistan may be like today's Turkey if it continuously develops as originally planned. However, Zia-ul-Haq's State's Islamization totally changed Pakistan. Today's AQ as well Taliban problems have its deep root since then. I do believe if Turkey is now in Pakistan's location, AQ and Taliban would have been wiped out long time ago. That is why I said that it will be a way hard problem for Pakistan to handle. I do not believe U.S.'s withdrawal will make those terrorists gone. That is just some wishful thinking. Look at today's Iraq, are all of the terrorists gone there???

Of course, those are my concerns. Should China continue support Pakistan? Of course. We should always provide support. However, not like others, I just simply put forward the great difficult issues that Pakistan has to face with. So you see I have got so many bricks thrown at me since I have not just said similar praising words like others.
ePhone bro.. I understand where you are coming from.. As a matter of fact, Pakistanis themselves are trying to get out of this mess we are in.. and as many of my Pakistani friends want to put burden of pulling us out of the mess on to China.. I am highly against it, taking help from a friend is okay, but we have to tackle our own problems by ourselves..

As far as growth of Pakistan's economy is concerned, We have a very resilient nature in that, Pakistan's economy has gone through many difficult times but we haven't ever been on the position of 1951 again, we have developed consistently, even now, when whole of the world is in economic crises, Pakistan's economy is showing resilience, its not crashing..

It is sad that we have been led by traitors and selfish leaders throughout our 60+ years but that was purely due to low education levels.. It is slowly changing.. gradually, people who are illetrate are also understanding short comings of our Political system.. people are waking up to the harsh realities.. people have started questioning the authorities..

Come on.. give us some credit.. our nation is only 63 years old, we are making mistakes, we are fumbling, but that’s how nations learn.. don’t you agree??

We have honestly been lucky to have China as our friend since beginning, an all weather friend.. and we are proud of this friendship..

One thing I can guarantee you, the moment we came out of this mess, the moment we got a good leader with honest team, you’ll be amazed at the speed we’ll develop..

Here is a link for a good read about Pakistan’s economic growth over 63 years..

Economy of Pakistan
 
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No one said that, if the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, the extremists will go away. There still needs to be do, but regional cooperation can provide a better method. regional cooperation based on mutual respect and mutual interests. Moreover, it will not a short time, regional cooperation can provide support for a long time, no longer depends on whether or not a country to leave.
 
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Before your accusation of my not understanding your words, it seems that you do not understand my words as well.I am fully aware of the intricacy of the political and historical connections in south and central asia countries. At least, I won't have less geopolitical knowledge than you. Accusing me too simple simply just overestimate yourself.

In the old days, it is ok to say terrorism is just a name. However, nowadays, terrorism is not simply a name. AQ and Taliban have been worldly recognized as terrorist organizations. China and Pakistan both officially recognize that as well.

Saying one thing and doing the other will seriously get you burnt in today's world.

Of course you can say today's terrorists may be tomorrow's freedom fighters. Well, Do you dare to support them if the whole world is against them??? Let alone for a country.

I'm sure you do not have enough understanding of my words.

Yes, I have no objection to your call Pakistan for more action to tackle terrorism. I just think your "blame" is too simple. Blame is simple, but you really understand the chaos in Pakistan and even the situation in Central and South Asia They each shady forces. you is not enough to know here. take some time to read some news and discussion in the PDF. Terrorism is not a name, each related to each player's interests. you can not find the root cause, not to address root causes, only to act against Pakistan, there is not enough action. Brother, you are too simple idea. A Chinese saying "Every door has a key" , you can call to open the door as soon as possible, but in fact, Pakistan do not have enough capacity to get those who need the key, you need to help Pakistan to get those keys, if you really want to quickly open the door.

Not to compare Pakistan and China, China is a big country, Pakistan is a small country. Of course, even so, China made far better than Pakistan. We are the Renaissance from the ruins, we work hard and generously blood, sweat, tears , not many countries can compare and China. no offense, but it is a fact that is too harsh for other developing countries. Of course, Pakistan's leaders certainly have a blame in this, but then what? If you just be satisfied loudly to blame, it does not help to resolve the matter. like I said, it did not stop a game, has continued to the present, so the more difficult for Pakistan to understand. also thank tolerance. from what I see, I believe Pakistani people are really angry for those who extremism.

This is all, hope you can learn more about the international geopolitics, and then you can understand what I mean.
 
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I am overly enthusiastic or simply just have a little gut to even mention it???

Everyone here pin their blame of terrorist problems on U.S. WOT and Israel. Is that so???

Every issue has its two sides. You cannot look at one but forget the other.

In a sense I do agree with ephone. I just think he is too overly enthusiastic with getting his points across and got too emotional on the process of doing so.

Simply put it, if there are no 'common' and 'mutual' interests, then there will be 'no healthy relationship'. The security issues in Pakistan wasn't there until the war on terror became a full fletched war. We mustn't blame Pakistan and question it's ability to handle these issues. China cannot blame it's security issues on anyone as it is their own responsibility to do so. Besides, Pakistan are already having enough problems to deal with as things stand.
China should handle it's own internal affairs accordingly and refrain from doing another American - When one cannot solve a problem, blame the rest.

We all have hopes and that the ongoing relationship between China and pakistan will only become stronger in the years to come. 'We need the relationship to remain healthy and we will protect it at all cost' was pretty much the message sent out by China and Pakistan camp. It has been like that for the past 60 years. Our relationship was further tested and strengthened by the OBL incident when the whole world was literally dying to get a piece of Pakistan. Instead of jumping bandwagons, China came out and issued a stern warning to the world not to interfere with Pakistan's internal affairs and respect it's sovereignty then gave Pakistan their utmost support. Those were the decisions and actions taken by the Chinese government and I think it speaks volumes for our relationship.
 
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Before your accusation of my not understanding your words, it seems that you do not understand my words as well.I am fully aware of the intricacy of the political and historical connections in south and central asia countries. At least, I won't have less geopolitical knowledge than you. Accusing me too simple simply just overestimate yourself.

In the old days, it is ok to say terrorism is just a name. However, nowadays, terrorism is not simply a name. AQ and Taliban have been worldly recognized as terrorist organizations. China and Pakistan both officially recognize that as well.

Saying one thing and doing the other will seriously get you burnt in today's world.

Of course you can say today's terrorists may be tomorrow's freedom fighters. Well, Do you dare to support them if the whole world is against them??? Let alone for a country.

Oh? You have a more appropriate object to blame, such as the United States and West how use terrorism in Xinjiang , how to kill innocent civilians, just because the dirty game of geopolitics. China has always opposed all acts of terrorism, we are not the West, must do not use terrorism against civilians. But China also respects the sovereignty and internal affairs of all countries, interference can only be worse. the United States for 10 years in Afghanistan, you feel satisfied for the present situation?

I withdraw the "brothers " this title. looks like you have some problems.
 
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No one said that??? Are you sure about that? I bet certain Pakistani members won't agree.

No one said that, if the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, the extremists will go away. There still needs to be do, but regional cooperation can provide a better method. regional cooperation based on mutual respect and mutual interests. Moreover, it will not a short time, regional cooperation can provide support for a long time, no longer depends on whether or not a country to leave.
 
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No one said that??? Are you sure about that? I bet certain Pakistani members won't agree.

I do not see, I think that members of Pakistan just say, it will have a more favorable situation to resolve, I agree.
 
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Well, why don't you tell me what will be a better way for U.S. to react after 9/11?

I do think Invasion into Afghanistan is a must. But U.S. invasion into Iraq was over-extension and I think that is a mistake.

If similar terrorist activity like 9/11 happened in China, you think China would have acted that differently if we know AQ is responsible for that and taliban refuses to give AQ up???

Is the west also a target to blame? Sure. However, the west has not invited sadam's invasion of Kuwait, terrorist attacks on military ships, embassies as well as 9/11.



Oh? you have a more appropriate object to blame, such as the United States and how the use of terrorism in Xinjiang in the West, how to kill innocent civilians, just because the dirty game of geopolitics, China has always opposed all acts of terrorism, we are not the West, must Do not use terrorism against civilians. But China also respects the sovereignty and internal affairs of all countries, interference can only be worse. the United States for 10 years in Afghanistan, you feel satisfied for the present situation?

I withdraw the "brothers " this title. looks like you have some problems.
 
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i would like to say just few things ........ thanks china to be there every time ........ thanks china to help us in every situation .. and most of all thanks to the nation of china ...... they have been very helping to us ............ my relatives do go to china once in every 2 months ........... and they tell me lots of stories of chinese people helping us in every step we make there .............and they are not mean at all
 
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