Pakistani Missile Vehicles Vs Indian and NKearn

[amardeep mishra]

For military HMV, it is payload and mobility, not appearance, that maters.

Hi dear @Tiqiu
I agree,that for a HMV,itz payload and mobility that matters the most.However I would like to add something to that and that is for "superior mobility" one would need a radically different design of suspension system vis-a-vis a more traditional approach(considering engine capacity to be constant or same).And when it comes to mobility nothing on this planet can beat the design of TATRA trucks! They can do things that others cant even imagine!- and that is all possible thanks to a "flexible axle design" that uses complex hydro pneumatic suspension as against the leaf-spring type suspension you showed in one of the chinese trucks.Most of the indian missile with the exception of strategic missiles are being towed by TATRA trucks-that are manufactured here under license.
Look at the pictures below to understand -

In the picture below you can clearly see,how the suspension design of TATRA is different from conventional design.Kindly note that the chinese trucks you have posted so far uses conventional leaf spring suspension.As you can clearly see that in tatra,both the wheels can swivel independently-which is IMPOSSIBLE in traditional design

 

[cerberus]

Agni-3 Canister
http://***************/attachments/22-jpg.10344/

 

[Roybot]

I think this Is the Tata LPTA 3138 8*8 all-wheel truck. Is there any info on whether it has passed the all-weather, all-terrain maximum performance trail? I have reason to believe it has not since Tata only completed its 25 months trial on the high-mobility 6*6 multi-axle truck in July last year.Most importantly, this 8*8 only has a payload capacity of 18 t, way below the should-be payload of 40 t ( industry standard ratio is 10t per axle).

The Tata LPTA 3138 8*8 is being proposed as a replacement for the Tatra in service with the Indian Army
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Indian Army ordered 1200 6*6 HMVs worth of Rs 900 crore last year.
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In 2013, China TA -HTF5451 8*8 finished its last 21-day maximum performance road trial on Tibet and Xinjiang. I carried weight load of 45 t and was mainly tested on the area of the plateau above the 5000m altitude. The successful deployment of this HMV enables China to launch all its short to medium range tactical ballistic missile from all terrain of the Tibet and Qinhai Plateau.

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For military HMV, it is payload and mobility, not appearance, that maters. For instance, the Chinese YJ-18 hypersonic missile TEL is 6*6 with pay load of 60 t. Without this pay load capacity, it is impossible to mount heavy missiles to your TEL.

Chinese YJ-18 TEL
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You are confused about total weight and max payload. 18t is the Tata trucks payload, not the total weight! Similarly the 45t figure for the Chinese truck(if true) must be its total weight not the max payload! No 8X8 truck in the world has a 45t max payload capacity, not even close to it.

For example the Oshkosh HEMTT has a max payload of 13t. Rheinmetall MAN Military Vehicle has a max payload of 15t, and you want us to believe that the Chinese truck can lug 45t?

 

[GURU DUTT]

Hi dear @Tiqiu
I agree,that for a HMV,itz payload and mobility that matters the most.However I would like to add something to that and that is for "superior mobility" one would need a radically different design of suspension system vis-a-vis a more traditional approach(considering engine capacity to be constant or same).And when it comes to mobility nothing on this planet can beat the design of TATRA trucks! They can do things that others cant even imagine!- and that is all possible thanks to a "flexible axle design" that uses complex hydro pneumatic suspension as against the leaf-spring type suspension you showed in one of the chinese trucks.Most of the indian missile with the exception of strategic missiles are being towed by TATRA trucks-that are manufactured here under license.
Look at the pictures below to understand -
View attachment 315314
In the picture below you can clearly see,how the suspension design of TATRA is different from conventional design.Kindly note that the chinese trucks you have posted so far uses conventional leaf spring suspension.As you can clearly see that in tatra,both the wheels can swivel independently-which is IMPOSSIBLE in traditional design
View attachment 315315 View attachment 315316 View attachment 315317

sirji just a noob question we have at least three auto majors who can design and built such trucks with same kind of TELs with suspenssion setup and multi axel platforms like what russia, china or US, UK France use to transport there heavy canistered missiles why cant we do the same for agni series ?

 

[cloud_9]

LOL! Those 3-Pointed star and BLMC rip-off's.

 

[amardeep mishra]

why cant we do the same for agni series ?

@GURU DUTT
As simple as that-Economy of scales! It doesnt make financial sense for companies like TATA or AL to spend millions of dollars on the R&D of a truck when indian defence ministry will buy only a few hundreds for their strategic missiles. If GoI can guarantee them sure shot purchases for other applications then they might develop those. As for the capability,TATA and AL can definitely design these trucks with superior suspension,Automatic tyre inflation system etc etc.Infact all the HMV trucks currently being produced by TATA and AL have all these features of TATRA except their complex hydro pneumatic suspension.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Agni-3 Canister

sirji we do nee better TELs where missiles are much closer to ground forlower centre of gravity for better mobility(better speed and much smaller turning radius ) ... dont you think so ?

@GURU DUTT
As simple as that-Economy of scales! It doesnt make financial sense for companies like TATA or AL to spend millions of dollars on the R&D of a truck when indian defence ministry will buy only a few hundreds for their strategic missiles. If GoI can guarantee them sure shot purchases for other applications then they might develop those. As for the capability,TATA and AL can definitely design these trucks with superior suspension,Automatic tyre inflation system etc etc.Infact all the HMV trucks currently being produced by TATA and AL have all these features of TATRA except their complex hydro pneumatic suspension.

with two hostile nuclear neigbors we sure have a huge market for it as all the current TELs we have missiles placed at least 12 to 14 foot above the ground which makes it difficult to tranport due to higher centre of gravity and needs more care than conventionsl TELs what russia , US , UK , France China or even nations like north korea is using plus these kinds of trucks have a great civilian market also its just that both compnies like TATA and AL are too lazy about it

 

[amardeep mishra]

plus these kinds of trucks have a great civilian market also its just that both compnies like TATA and AL are too lazy about it

@GURU DUTT
I dont think anyone in India will buy a truck costing 80L when he can get his job done with a 30L truck.So No,these type of trucks do not really have a "great civilian market" in india,maybe except in couple of specialized places-like transporting some very heavy equipment,earth movers etc etc.Other than that,normal civilian market for these specialized trucks is almost non existent thanks to their cost.And lastly,they sure are NOT lazy!

 

[GURU DUTT]

@GURU DUTT
I dont think anyone in India will buy a truck costing 80L when he can get his job done with a 30L truck.So No,these type of trucks do not really have a "great civilian market" in india,maybe except in couple of specialized places-like transporting some very heavy equipment,earth movers etc etc.Other than that,normal civilian market for these specialized trucks is almost non existent thanks to their cost.

no sir there is a huge market for use in fire services , mobile hospitals , luxury buses and so on but take a look at latest MBRLs or truck mobile arty gun or mobile radar or SAM tranporters we have they look like some school boy effort with lower centre of gravity yet high ground clearence same systems will be much much easier to oparate incombat zones and much easier to hide than what kind of platforms we have

 

[Tiqiu]

You are confused about total weight and max payload. 18t is the Tata trucks payload, not the total weight! Similarly the 45t figure for the Chinese truck is the total weight not the max payload! No 8X8 truck in the world has a 45t max payload capacity, not even close to it.

For example the Oshkosh HEMTT has a max payload of 13t. Rheinmetall MAN Military Vehicle has a max payload of 15t, and you want us to believe that the Chinese truck can lug 45t?

To believe or not to believe is not my business. Do some research first.

 

[Roybot]

To believe or not to believe is not my business. Do some research first.

Lol why don't you give me an example of any 8X8 truck with such a massive payload? You made an outrageous claim, so the onus is on you to back it up with source.

45t payload

Just for example, once again, look at the payload section. So this super duper Chinese truck has a higher payload capacity, than a double b truck.

 

[Tiqiu]

Hi dear @Tiqiu
I agree,that for a HMV,itz payload and mobility that matters the most.However I would like to add something to that and that is for "superior mobility" one would need a radically different design of suspension system vis-a-vis a more traditional approach(considering engine capacity to be constant or same).And when it comes to mobility nothing on this planet can beat the design of TATRA trucks! They can do things that others cant even imagine!- and that is all possible thanks to a "flexible axle design" that uses complex hydro pneumatic suspension as against the leaf-spring type suspension you showed in one of the chinese trucks.Most of the indian missile with the exception of strategic missiles are being towed by TATRA trucks-that are manufactured here under license.
Look at the pictures below to understand -
View attachment 315314
In the picture below you can clearly see,how the suspension design of TATRA is different from conventional design.Kindly note that the chinese trucks you have posted so far uses conventional leaf spring suspension.As you can clearly see that in tatra,both the wheels can swivel independently-which is IMPOSSIBLE in traditional design
View attachment 315315 View attachment 315316 View attachment 315317

Good read. But you neglect the fact that apart from the suspension, gear box and independent power system are also vital for the mobility of this type of off-road trucks.

Also kindly pointing out to you that this Chinese truck already uses hydro suspension.

 

[danger007]

 

[amardeep mishra]

Good read. But you neglect the fact that apart from the suspension, gear box and independent power system are also vital for the mobility of this type of off-road trucks.

Also kindly pointing out to you that this Chinese truck already uses hydro suspension.

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Hi dear @Tiqiu
I have not seen any chinese truck doing what TATRA can do.What I am trying to point to is that,i havent seen the kind of swiveling one would observe in TATRA trucks in chinese trucks.The suspension design of TATRA is appreciably more complex than the pictures you have shown above.Kindly refer to the technical manuals of TATRA ,or better go through their suspension design,you yourself will find it to be much more complex than the pictures you have shown above!And looking at your pictures,I really doubt if your trucks wheels can swivel "independently" about the differential.
This is from dakar rally where TATRA trucks have won 6 times!- I hope that gives you an idea about their off road performance?

 

[danger007]