Pakistan - Turkey (PAC-TAI) Collaboration for NGFA-TFX 5th Gen Aircraft l Updates, News & Discussion

[mingle]

Only Hurdle for PAF are engines

 

[The Eagle]

No I meant something else. Let me clarify.

- AZM is indeed an umbrella program I am specifically talking about the NGF

-Within NGF there is an in-house design (or designs)

-It is also understood that there was supposed to be collaboration even on making the in-house design develop into a system

-TFX collaboration is more of a fallback plan if the in-house design is found to be a not workable path

So locking the original “NGF” thread and continuing the discussion on the subject in the paradigm of TFX collaboration means that’s the way forward now and that the in-house design (with collaboration) is an abandoned route in PDF’s view?

An in-house design may still require the help and what if it was about TFX program in collaboration. Secondly, it doesn't mean that the design is abandoned. May be TFX is exactly what PAF needs or requires. One can relate this to PAC JV with China on Thunder. A fighter aircraft that serves the purpose is not fallback except the notion and emotions such as I couldn't built one alone. There are always JVs and this is the way forward. Lastly, who says anything that PAF will stop at TFX only. AZM thread is locked so that we will be posting threads subject wise under AZM. Wait for a while and soon you will understand.

 

[Raja Porus]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD , what can be Pakistan's role in this programme?

 

[Bilal.]

An in-house design may still require the help and what if it was about TFX program in collaboration. Secondly, it doesn't mean that the design is abandoned. May be TFX is exactly what PAF needs or requires. One can relate this to PAC JV with China on Thunder. A fighter aircraft that serves the purpose is not fallback except the notion and emotions such as I couldn't built one alone. There are always JVs and this is the way forward. Lastly, who says anything that PAF will stop at TFX only. AZM thread is locked so that we will be posting threads subject wise under AZM. Wait for a while and soon you will understand.

It’s just that the fate of the below is unclear now. And it could not have been TFX as the timelines don’t match. Clearly a design other than TFX was initiated somewhere in early 2017:

MODP Year Book 2017-18

DIRECTORATE GENERAL MUNITIONS PRODUCTION (DGMP) PROCUREMENT OF MAJOR DEFENCE EQUIPMENT

defence.pk

 

[Amaa'n]

It was always going to be a collaboration to turn it into an actual flying fighter aircraft system. That collaboration would have been for subsystems and technical assistance to achieve what was being designed as below. I am talking about this:

MODP Year Book 2017-18

DIRECTORATE GENERAL MUNITIONS PRODUCTION (DGMP) PROCUREMENT OF MAJOR DEFENCE EQUIPMENT

defence.pk

View attachment 817600

i typed up all lot and then deleted it again due to OPSEC reasons ....

Pakistan - Turkey - China have various MoUs / agreements in all tri services .... experienced engineers were recruited through DSSC at the rank to that of eqv to Major / Lt.Col in army who are now focused on R&D.....

from Frigates to Cyber Security , Azm to Drones we are working across the board with everyone.....Setting up labs, tests, research, project development .... to name a few

 

[ghazi52]

 

[SD 10]

where is the engine going to come form? and what about armaments? can turks make BVR as capable as meteor or PL15?

 

[Bilal.]

i typed up all lot and then deleted it again due to OPSEC reasons ....

Pakistan - Turkey - China have various MoUs / agreements in all tri services .... experienced engineers were recruited through DSSC at the rank to that of eqv to Major / Lt.Col in army who are now focused on R&D.....

from Frigates to Cyber Security , Azm to Drones we are working across the board with everyone.....Setting up labs, tests, research, project development .... to name a few

Let’s wait and see what comes out of it. I would have loved for F23 to have finally come to fruition but again fate seems to be favoring F22

 

[CriticalThinker02]

So when will the PAF be flying the TFX, somewhere around 2025?

 

[The Eagle]

It’s just that the fate of the below is unclear now. And it could not have been TFX as the timelines don’t match. Clearly a design other than TFX was initiated somewhere in early 2017:
View attachment 817607

MODP Year Book 2017-18

DIRECTORATE GENERAL MUNITIONS PRODUCTION (DGMP) PROCUREMENT OF MAJOR DEFENCE EQUIPMENT

defence.pk

Man...... who knows? A lot is being done behind closed doors. One can only imagine as what's being declared publicly. As far as I can understand, you were actually expecting a Pakistani design alone and alone being built. However, the keyword is always collaboration. You can call it TFX or NGF for PAF and TFX for TuAF both at a time. The highlighted part says the first cycle of conceptual design phase. Not even the design itself but first phase of a conceptual design followed by 3 more conceptual design to reach at final conceptual design and then so on and on. Not everything can be said or told by officials and I understand that. Exchange programs are actively being done and so the concern students or professionals are sent into other offices/entities to take part into R&D programs. Then after, they will have to look into future projects & so the collaboration. You don't just reinvent the wheel by your own at home.

So when will the PAF be flying the TFX, somewhere around 2025?

Surprised by the date you mentioned. Is it coming from a source you might have seen? Please share in details.

 

[KaiserX]

The key value for the PAF will be to pivot the 5th generation design/tech towards a fully unmanned 5/6th generation platform that would support the TFX in its roles. Id much rather have the PAF go the co-development join venture route so that more funds are available for such a concept.

If we create such a UCAV fighter alongside the TFX that would give us a huge competitive edge over the IAF for decades to come.

 

[NA71]

Great Mashallah....This is what was hinted in other thread......keep in mind ...2022 will be full of news......IA.

AZM AUR HOSLA ....is the key

 

[iLION12345_1]

So when will the PAF be flying the TFX, somewhere around 2025?

Not before 2035, if at all.

TFX is a rather ambitious project coming from a country that might be seeing an economic and geo-political crisis if it continues its current foreign policies. Turkey cannot make the TFX without American and European support, and currently it’s losing said support.

I don’t mean any offense to the Turkish people or their defense Industry, they’ve made massive progress recently and it’s pretty impressive to see, but the TFX is clearly above their capability as it stands. At least for this decade.

as much as I’d like Pakistan to work with them, I have to be realistic, I currently don’t have high hopes for the TFX. I hope to be proven wrong however.

 

[Bilal.]

Man...... who knows? A lot is being done behind closed doors. One can only imagine as what's being declared publicly. As far as I can understand, you were actually expecting a Pakistani design alone and alone being built. However, the keyword is always collaboration. You can call it TFX or NGF for PAF and TFX for TuAF both at a time. The highlighted part says the first cycle of conceptual design phase. Not even the design itself but first phase of a conceptual design followed by 3 more conceptual design to reach at final conceptual design and then so on and on. Not everything can be said or told by officials and I understand that. Exchange programs are actively being done and so the concern students or professionals are sent into other offices/entities to take part into R&D programs. Then after, they will have to look into future projects & so the collaboration. You don't just reinvent the wheel by your own at home.



Surprised by the date you mentioned. Is it coming from a source you might have seen? Please share in details.

I would like to emphasize again. I didn’t expect or mean in my post “a Pakistani design alone and alone being built.”

What I was hoping for was a Pakistani design with collaboration and technical assistance from Turkey (and maybe China) on subsystems and fixing any issues that would have risen during the process.

Kind of a Pakistan led and friendly country assisted program. But if we have taken the TFX route it’s a different path. Let’s see….

Also the document doesn’t only call it conceptual design but also “first configuration” that was designed based on the challenging performance requirements of PAF.

 

[JamD]

We've been talking about this for years but now everyone's suddenly losing their minds, I don't know why.

Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

this is surprise to 99.9% of ppl.. re-open the thread You can open a new one but wait until Foxtrox go to sleep or working....

defence.pk

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD , what can be Pakistan's role in this programme?

Pakistan can invest money, promise to buy a more strike-oriented version of the TFX. Pakistan can have workshare agreements. Don't expect Pakistan to actively contribute to major design.