Pakistan to supply Super Mushak trainer aircraft to Iraq.

[Gentelman]

Well iraq is looking for max capabilities. Remember we are facing block 60 f-16s, latest f-15's, f-18's, f-35's soon, eurofighter typhoons....

The JF-17 wouldn't be the greatest first line fighter against these. Iraq is in a tough neighborhood where everyone is arming to the teeth.

except Israel there is no one around you having BVR capability.
In 25-30million$ no one else can provide you a 4th gen aircraft with BVR,IFR,radar of 130km detection(maybe upgraded block 2 still to be shown up and its prize are estimated to be 25 m$),mach 1.8 and FBW digital computerized avionics with HUD and glass cockpit.

 

[ejaz007]

Here is another link to the development:

Pakistan Sells Trainer Aircraft to Iraq, Seeks Further Contracts | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[slapshot]

http://e.jang.com.pk/02-12-2014/karachi/page1.asp

Number of Aircraft sold to Iraq are 20

 

[Pakistanisage]

Better Pakistan-Iraq Relations would be hugely welcomed !

We've always had a soft-spot for our Iraqi Brethren !

And you saved the " Hard one " for our Indian Brothers.

 

[hussain0216]

The problem when people say they want the best plane and discount the JF-17 especially from arab/muslim countries is they dont understand the weapons packages that they will be "Allowed" to have

F-16 is a fantastic plane, but if its weapons package is limited then in reality you are spending alot of money for a plane that is only really able to complete a limited role

Like one of the above posters said, planes being sold to iraq would only be equipped to deal with bombing roles and to take on the ageing/limited air forces of syria or iran and no one else.

The JF-17 can complete the exact same role, at a fraction of the price and cost with a full spectrum of weapons available

This is not to say iraq couldnt or shouldnt have two planes in its inventory, iraq could purchase JF-17 for all the day to day heavy workload jobs whilst knowing the plane has the weapons package to do alot more and opt for a few squadrons of a heavy fighter to form the spear point in their air force

 

[Doritos11]

What do max capabilities mean, elaborate. What capabilities are US providing with Iraqi F-16s..do list.

I think you are mistaken you mean a different medium to heavy class Platform to counter similar or in same class platform.

Because the capabilities/systems are there and Chinese/russians can provide the same level and +/- advancements which can be integrated with sino/russian Flankers or J-10 like aircraft same as on FC-1/JF-17....I don't see iraqi F-16s can take on anyone [apart from syria they too have R-27AE BVR] in the neighbor not even Jordanian AMRAAM equip F-16s. Iraq and egypt are in the same league and position you wont' be sold AMRAAMS or the more advance sea/land cruise missiles or the latest in precision munitions i can name a list that is not available to neither egyptians and jordan and it certainly not coming with Iraqi F-16s so there you go what actual capabilities are coming with Iraqi f-16s apart from the platform itself...hope you understand....we are waiting on the list of goodies Iraqi f-16s are offered/coming with.

Ok this is what i found.
The net effect seems cleverly calibrated to give Iraq an air defense force that can handle aging threats from Syria or Iran relatively well, and perform strike missions within Iraq, without being a serious threat to more advanced air forces in the region. Regional memories among its Arab neighbors, as well as Israeli concerns, make that a smart starting point.

Which means downgraded capabilities not max capibilities of F-16s the platform itself is excellent but without much weapons systems compared to what Chinese/russians can provide and can be integrated with FC-1/JF-17..i am not saying JF-17 is super plane but for the cost and capabilities it comes with Iraq would keep on requesting US but will not get it ever same is the case with egypt in dire need of active BVRs.

The 2nd deal for 18 aircraft, the 1st deal includes more missiles + bombs

http://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/iraq_11-46_0.pdf

The Government of Iraq has requested a possible sale of 18 F-16IQ aircraft, 24 F100PW-229 or F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines, 120 LAU-129/A Common Rail Launchers, 24 APG-68(V)9 radar sets, 19 M61 20mm Vulcan Cannons, 100 AIM-9L/M-8/9 SIDEWINDER Missiles, 150 AIM-7M-F1/H SPARROW Missiles, 50 AGM-65D/G/H/K MAVERICK Air to Ground Missiles, 200 GBU-12 PAVEWAY II Laser Guided Bomb Units (500 pound), 50 GBU-10 PAVEWAY II Laser Guided Bomb Units (2000 pound), 50 GBU-24 PAVEWAY III Laser Guided Bomb Units (2000 pound), 22 ALQ-211 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites (AIDEWS), or Advanced Countermeasures Electronic System (ACES) (ACES includes the ALQ-187 Electronic Warfare System and AN/ALR-93 Radar Warning Receiver), 20 AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF) Systems (without Mode IV), 20 Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS/ Inertial Navigation Systems (INS), (Standard Positioning Service (SPS) commercial code only), 20 AN/AAQ-33 SNIPER or AN/AAQ-28 LITENING Targeting Pods, 4 F-9120 Advanced Airborne Reconnaissance Systems (AARS) or DB-110 Reconnaissance Pods (RECCE), 22 AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispensing Systems (CMDS), 20 Conformal Fuel Tanks (pairs), 120 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS), 20 AN/ARC-238 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio Systems, 10,000 PGU-27A/B Ammunition, 30,000 PGU-28 Ammunition, 230 MK-84 2000 lb General Purpose Bombs, and 800 MK-82 500lb General Purpose Bombs. Also included: LAU-117 Maverick Launchers, site survey support equipment, Joint Mission Planning System, Ground Based Flight Simulator, tanker support, ferry services, Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD), repair and return, modification kits, spares and repair parts, construction, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical, engineering, and logistics support services, ground based flight simulator, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $2.3 billion.

 

[Doritos11]

Iraqi air force general said he seeks 200 fighter aircraft.

Currently 36 F16 block 52’s ( 2 squadrons ) waiting for delivery.

They need to go to Russia, SU 30/SU 35
2 squadrons of SU 34 figher-bombers.
If ready for sale MIG 35’s.

JF 17 can be bought to fill up numbers of cheaper fighters that can do the same but less advanced.

Britain and France announced they are willing to arm Iraq.
The Rafale and Typhoon are too overpriced, the US won’t sell advanced weaponry on the aircrafts until Iraq gets the same advanced weaponry from others.
For example the US denied AH-64E sale to Iraq until Iraq went and bought MI 28Ne, now they’ve signed a deal for Apaches.

Then when Iraq reaches 200 aircraft and they start looking for stealth fighters in the future numbers will add 300 + fighers bringing equality to other states, since Iraq started building it’s airforce from scratch 2003.

 

[Luftwaffe]

The 2nd deal for 18 aircraft, the 1st deal includes more missiles + bombs

http://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files/mas/iraq_11-46_0.pdf

Still no AIM-120A/B/C/D which means apart from egypt ..israel/turkey/jordan/kuwait/KSA all have AMRAAMs...I insist this is game changer fire and forget is the name of the game with F-35s coming in the neighborhood they'll come up with every more maneuverable missiles.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Iraqi air force general said he seeks 200 fighter aircraft.

Currently 36 F16 block 52’s ( 2 squadrons ) waiting for delivery.

They need to go to Russia, SU 30/SU 35
2 squadrons of SU 34 figher-bombers.
If ready for sale MIG 35’s.

JF 17 can be bought to fill up numbers of cheaper fighters that can do the same but less advanced.

Britain and France announced they are willing to arm Iraq.
The Rafale and Typhoon are too overpriced, the US won’t sell advanced weaponry on the aircrafts until Iraq gets the same advanced weaponry from others.
For example the US denied AH-64E sale to Iraq until Iraq went and bought MI 28Ne, now they’ve signed a deal for Apaches.

Then when Iraq reaches 200 aircraft and they start looking for stealth fighters in the future numbers will add 300 + fighers bringing equality to other states, since Iraq started building it’s airforce from scratch 2003.

18 Squadrons [18 per..] is more than enough provided they are fully equipment with modern weaponry once Iraq masters F-16s they should pressure/try for AMRAAMs. The next or the investment along side should be complete network of Medium/Long range SAMs, and attack cruise missiles and the cheaper and potent SAM systems are from China which were also offered to Turkey. 3D Phased Array Radars. More investment into Iraqi Intelligence Agency. Money should go towards spy satellite and what better money could be invested in China.

Anyway we've derailed the thread by long way i'll stop right here.

 

[Gryphon]

PAC to supply Iraq with Super Mushshak basic trainers

Farhan Bokhari, Islamabad - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
11 February 2014

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has signed an agreement to supply what is believed to be 20 Super Mushshak basic trainers to the IQAF. Source: PAC

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF)-run Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) at Kamra, just north of Islamabad, signed an agreement with the Iraqi Air Force (IQAF) on 10 February to supply an unspecified number of its Super Mushshak basic trainer aircraft to Iraq: the first ever aircraft deal between the two countries.

The agreement was signed by IQAF Commander General Anwer Hamad Ameen Ahmad Ahmed and Air Marshal Suhail Gul Khan, the PAC chairman, at the Islamabad residence of Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, who witnessed the signing.

Although the PAF did not publicly reveal the number of aircraft ordered or their price under the agreement, a senior defence ministry official told IHS Jane's that Pakistan will sell 20 Super Mushshak aircraft to the IQAF. The official added that a separate agreement was signed between the PAF and the IQAF under which the PAF will train Iraq's air force personnel, including those with air defence duties.

"This is a major success for our aircraft industry. After Saudi Arabia, this is the second important agreement for the Mushshak aircraft," said the official, referring to a previous deal for the sale of 20 Super Mushshaks to Saudi Arabia.

Both Pakistani and Western officials in Islamabad suggested the Super Mushshak deal could lay the basis for a possible future agreement to supply Iraq with the JF-17 Thunder fighter, which is co-produced by Pakistan and China. Pakistan has marketed the JF-17 as a relatively economical alternative to Western aircraft.

The PAC agreement to supply Super Mushshak trainers to the IQAF was signed by IQAF Commander General Anwer Hamad Ameen Ahmad Ahmed (front left) and Air Marshal Suhail Gul Khan, the PAC chairman (front right), at the Islamabad residence of Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif (centre background), who witnessed the signing. (PAF)

IHS Jane's recently reported that Pakistan was also in discussions with Saudi Arabia regarding the supply of an unspecified number of JF-17s and Al-Khalid main battle tanks.

"In the long run Pakistan will surely look for opportunities to export the JF-17 to Iraq if there was such an opportunity in future," one Western official in Islamabad told IHS Jane's . "That could be the natural next step to the agreement [for the Super Mushshak] with Iraq."

The PAF plans to induct between 150 and 250 JF-17s, with final deliveries expected by 2018-20. Any future agreement to supply Iraq - or any export customer - with JF-17s could only involve immediate deliveries in this timeframe if the PAF opted to delay some of its own orders.

(368 words)

PAC to supply Iraq with Super Mushshak basic trainers - IHS Jane's 360

 

[Pakistanisage]

PAC to supply Iraq with Super Mushshak basic trainers

Farhan Bokhari, Islamabad - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
11 February 2014

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has signed an agreement to supply what is believed to be 20 Super Mushshak basic trainers to the IQAF. Source: PAC

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF)-run Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) at Kamra, just north of Islamabad, signed an agreement with the Iraqi Air Force (IQAF) on 10 February to supply an unspecified number of its Super Mushshak basic trainer aircraft to Iraq: the first ever aircraft deal between the two countries.

The agreement was signed by IQAF Commander General Anwer Hamad Ameen Ahmad Ahmed and Air Marshal Suhail Gul Khan, the PAC chairman, at the Islamabad residence of Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, who witnessed the signing.

Although the PAF did not publicly reveal the number of aircraft ordered or their price under the agreement, a senior defence ministry official told IHS Jane's that Pakistan will sell 20 Super Mushshak aircraft to the IQAF. The official added that a separate agreement was signed between the PAF and the IQAF under which the PAF will train Iraq's air force personnel, including those with air defence duties.

"This is a major success for our aircraft industry. After Saudi Arabia, this is the second important agreement for the Mushshak aircraft," said the official, referring to a previous deal for the sale of 20 Super Mushshaks to Saudi Arabia.

Both Pakistani and Western officials in Islamabad suggested the Super Mushshak deal could lay the basis for a possible future agreement to supply Iraq with the JF-17 Thunder fighter, which is co-produced by Pakistan and China. Pakistan has marketed the JF-17 as a relatively economical alternative to Western aircraft.

The PAC agreement to supply Super Mushshak trainers to the IQAF was signed by IQAF Commander General Anwer Hamad Ameen Ahmad Ahmed (front left) and Air Marshal Suhail Gul Khan, the PAC chairman (front right), at the Islamabad residence of Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif (centre background), who witnessed the signing. (PAF)

IHS Jane's recently reported that Pakistan was also in discussions with Saudi Arabia regarding the supply of an unspecified number of JF-17s and Al-Khalid main battle tanks.

"In the long run Pakistan will surely look for opportunities to export the JF-17 to Iraq if there was such an opportunity in future," one Western official in Islamabad told IHS Jane's . "That could be the natural next step to the agreement [for the Super Mushshak] with Iraq."

The PAF plans to induct between 150 and 250 JF-17s, with final deliveries expected by 2018-20. Any future agreement to supply Iraq - or any export customer - with JF-17s could only involve immediate deliveries in this timeframe if the PAF opted to delay some of its own orders.

(368 words)

PAC to supply Iraq with Super Mushshak basic trainers - IHS Jane's 360

Dang, that is one SEXY and Gorgeous looking Aircraft.

What a Beauty ?

 

[ziaulislam]

Iraqi air force general said he seeks 200 fighter aircraft.

Currently 36 F16 block 52’s ( 2 squadrons ) waiting for delivery.

They need to go to Russia, SU 30/SU 35
2 squadrons of SU 34 figher-bombers.
If ready for sale MIG 35’s.

JF 17 can be bought to fill up numbers of cheaper fighters that can do the same but less advanced.

Britain and France announced they are willing to arm Iraq.
The Rafale and Typhoon are too overpriced, the US won’t sell advanced weaponry on the aircrafts until Iraq gets the same advanced weaponry from others.
For example the US denied AH-64E sale to Iraq until Iraq went and bought MI 28Ne, now they’ve signed a deal for Apaches.

Then when Iraq reaches 200 aircraft and they start looking for stealth fighters in the future numbers will add 300 + fighers bringing equality to other states, since Iraq started building it’s airforce from scratch 2003.

you need an aircraft with god weapons package. f-16s without aim120 is pretty much useles
regarding jf-17 , iraq should only go for it, if it wants to keep a larger airforce and minimize its spending on defence.
i.e e.g if it wants to keep 300 or so fighters. 100 thunders and 200 advance aircrafts will do.
remember buying a 100 advance aircrafts will cost 15 billion dollars. that a huge deal
if iraq goes for 200 fighters it will need 30billion atleast.

one possiblity is to build up slowly. in that case it should seek f-35 or the russian/chinese stealth plateform too

 

[Doritos11]

you need an aircraft with god weapons package. f-16s without aim120 is pretty much useles
regarding jf-17 , iraq should only go for it, if it wants to keep a larger airforce and minimize its spending on defence.
i.e e.g if it wants to keep 300 or so fighters. 100 thunders and 200 advance aircrafts will do.
remember buying a 100 advance aircrafts will cost 15 billion dollars. that a huge deal
if iraq goes for 200 fighters it will need 30billion atleast.

one possiblity is to build up slowly. in that case it should seek f-35 or the russian/chinese stealth plateform too

Air force is looking at aircraft in this class

Su 30/35
MIG 35
Rafale
Typhoon

No 5th generation, it’s too early for that, too costly and not yet needed, neither will they sell it to a non allied ( neutral ) state like Iraq.

 

[Saifullah Sani]

Pakistan Sells Trainer Aircraft to Iraq, Seeks Further Contracts

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan on Monday signed deals to supply basic trainer aircraft to the Iraqi Air Force and help train its personnel, sparking hopes it can secure further deals as the Middle Eastern country tries to rebuild its air arm.

Analysts are generally skeptical large-scale deals will be in the offing, but concede it is possible.

The Associated Press of Pakistan reported that agreements to provide training and development assistance for the Iraqi Air Force and for Super Mushak trainer planes were signed by the head of the Pakistan Air Force, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt, and the commander of Iraq’s Air Force, Gen. Anwer Hamad Amen Ahmed.

A nine-member Iraqi defense delegation, which included the commander of Iraqi air defense, Gen. Jabbar Ubaid Kedhum, has been in Pakistan since last week, visiting facilities such as the Air Force academy at Risalpur and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex at Kamra, the home of Pakistan’s aviation industry.

According to a government press release, they also met with Pakistan’s minister for defense production, Tanveer Hussain, and were offered training and the full range of training aircraft, from basic propeller-driven planes to intermediate jets, plus communication equipment.

Defense Ministry officials here would not comment on the number of aircraft involved or the value of the Iraqi deal.

However, analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said 20 aircraft, including training and spares, are being acquired for US $94 million.

The Super Mushak, a propeller-driven, two- to three-seat aircraft, is a Pakistani version of the Swedish Saab Safari/Supporter. With some modifications, it was built under license as the MFI-17 Mushak (Proficient), and serves with Pakistan’s Air Force and Army.

It is used for primary and basic flight training; instrument, night, navigation and formation flying; liaison; and forward air control. Six under-wing hardpoints can carry a range of light rockets, bombs and gun pods.

Pakistan has exported the aircraft to Egypt, Iran, Oman, Saudi Arabia and Syria.

The Super Mushak features a more powerful 260-horsepower Textron Lycoming six-cylinder engine, electrical instrumentation, dual controls and a fuel injection system.

Twenty each are in service with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, and it is a contender for Turkey’s basic trainer program.

The aircraft “is a very good buy, considering that it has an up-rated engine and glass cockpit now. It is a proven design and will serve them well,” Shabbir said.

But overall, Shabbir said the training deal is more important.

“The [Pakistan Air Force] trained Iraqi pilots in the past, [along with Iranian pilots during the Shah’s time], and this will open up further opportunities for both countries,” he said.

The training deal is for basic pilot training and worth US $90 million. Shabbir is optimistic about further deals, such as a C4I system similar to one sold to Bangladesh, and perhaps UAVs.

Despite this success, Brian Cloughley, a former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, , said Pakistan’s ability to secure further large-scale equipment deals is uncertain.

“From all accounts, the Iraqi delegation’s visit to Pakistan went very well, and they were especially impressed by the aeronautical complex at Kamra,” he said.

However, “The problem for Pakistan, so far as provision of manufactured aircraft is concerned, is that the Iraqis have already purchased almost all they need elsewhere. The Mushak is an excellent aircraft of its type, and it is good for Pakistan that a sale has been made, but in comparative terms, there isn’t much money involved,” he added.

Even the offer of further training deals may be too late.

“Pakistan is very keen to offer training to the Iraqi Air Force, but this is already being effected in the US for pilots, and ground crew have been learning English in Jordan,” Cloughley said.

“South Korea is also training pilots for the T-50IQs being supplied, and there is some training carried out elsewhere,” he added.

The South Korean KAI T-50 Golden Eagle is an advanced trainer jet/light multirole fighter. It is being developed into the FA-50 lead-in fighter trainer/light fighter.

Though it appears the mainstay of Iraq’s airpower will be 36 F-16IQ fighter jets, the future composition of Iraq’s Air Force is uncertain, and whether the FA-50 may interest Iraq is unknown.

At the same time, Pakistan has been promoting the somewhat similar Sino-Pakistani JF-17 Thunder, and has showcased it to Iraqi officials.

Shabbir said that despite the acquisition of the T-50s, if Iraq is to opt for a high-low combination of aircraft types, Pakistan could have a chance.

Past deals indicate Pakistan could still secure some further defense sales, he said.

“Iraq has also bought armored vehicles ... from Pakistan as well, and there is a good chance of Pakistan bagging some of the small arms and ammunition [mortar and artillery] contracts,” he said.

Iraq purchased 44 Talha tracked armored personnel carriers and 60 Mohafiz internal security vehicles from Pakistan in 2006. ■

Pakistan Sells Trainer Aircraft to Iraq, Seeks Further Contracts | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[Naeem PK]

Good Yr... It means we are still able to make some exports... (y)