Pakistan to gift old submarines to Bangladesh Navy

[Penguin]

6x Island Class

1x Hainan Class (converted to an OPV)

2x Kraljevica Class

1x Sea Dragon Class

1x Type-010G Class (MCV but equipped and used as an OPV)

2x Leopard Class Patrol Frigate

1x Salisbury Class Patrol Frigate

These 3x frigates are used for patrol and training purposes. According to Wikipedia BN has only 6x OPVs, i.e. the Island Class but there are other classes of OPVs which they have just classified as ‘patrol craft.’

I beg to differ. I count the frigates as frigates, not OPVs. Next, consider the specs for the Island class OPV and note its range (which is crucial for 'off shore' qualification)
1,260 tons
53.5-59.5 m
16.5 kt
7,000 n miles at 12 kt

The only thing that comes close is the South Korean built Sea Dragon (originally designed as OPV, so no surprise. I agree this is indeed misclassified):
635 tons
60.8 m
24> kt
6,000 n miles at 15 kt

Now, lets look at 2 more classes of surface combattants you mentioned:

Durjoy class (Type 037 'Hainan' class) submarine chaser/ Large patrol craft
392 tons
58.8 m
30.5 kt
1,300 n miles at 15 kt

Karnaphuli class (Kraljevica Class) Large Patrol Craft
245 tons
43.1 m
24 kt
1,500 n miles at 12 kt

Given their range, these at best can be used inshore. Given their limited displacement and relatively high max speed, however, they are best termed patrol boats.

Then there is the Type 010G Class Minesweeper/Patrol craft
590 tons
60 m
14 kt
3,000 n miles at 10 kt

This is similar in displacement to Sea Dragon and similar in speed to Island class. It's range is superior to the Hainan and Kraljevica patrol craft but at best half that of the Sea Dragon and Island classes. To the extent this is used for patrol, it would be Inshore Patrol Vessel. But what I don't understand then, is why the Shapla (River) class Minesweeper/Patrol class/Survey ship wouldn't be also called IPVs. They certainly have better range than the Type 10G:

Shapla (River) class Minesweeper/Patrol class/Survey ship
890 tons
47.5 m
14 kt
4,500 n miles at 10 kt

But perhaps they and the Type 10G are better just called what they are: MCM vessels. Both are in fact a fleet support auxiliaries.

 

[Penguin]

The Saudis had nothing to do with the procurement process at all. Though we maintain excellent defence relations with KSA. Trouble? Trouble started after commissioning into BN, not before it was delivered!

BN’s First Frigate Squadron was already complete with 4x frigates when the Ulsan (mod.) Class was procured, so the BNS KBW is the first vessel in the Second Frigate Squadron, after KBW was ordered 3x more frigates were required to complete the squadron. With that and as I have mentioned before BD and RoK share excellent defence relations, they gave us the discount. Not anything else.

So, the article SAUDI GIFT WILL BUY NEW FRIGATE FOR BANGLADESH, ASIA PACIFIC by Jane's Defence Weekly from Nov 04, 1995 is incorrect?

Is this quote (from a Dutch source) incorrect too?

Bangladesh
Late nineties the Netherlands sold equipment for a frigate build in Pusan, South-Korea, that was sold to Bangladesh. The ship was paid with a grant by Saudi Arabia for Bangladeshi support during the Gulf war (1990-1991). Soon after being launched the ship was not able to sail anymore and an overhaul was necessary. In the period January 2004 – October 2005 the Netherlands sold further equipment to Bangladesh worth € 10 million. Buying a major weapon system is one, keeping it operational however costs a lot of money too; the Bangladeshi frigate is a good example of that."

http://www.stopwapenhandel.org/English/report/countryreport2006.pdf

 

[khaled_m_ali]

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[khaled_m_ali]

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[Raquib]

BN is going to procure Type-209 attack submarines from Turkey.

I wish those were German-built...

 

[khaled_m_ali]

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[Penguin]

At the moment these 2 are the only guided missile frigates.

BNS KBW is equipped with the Chinese built FM-90N SAM:
BNS KBW is armed with 4x Otomat Mk.II Block IV AshMs, these are highly advanced and capable missiles. It is equipped with sophisticated and proven systems from Western manufacturers.

What do you exactly mean that it is a relatively simple vessel? It is one of the most advanced warships of South Asian operators. There is nothing ‘incomplete about it.’

BNS Osman is certainly now an advanced and capable warship. It has recently gone through extensive upgrades. It is armed with 8x C-802A SSMs and SAMs will be installed on it shortly.
Upgrade process is still not complete.

The KBW is not equipped with ANY surface to air missile system.

Most sources for KBW list merely Otomat Mk2, without block indication. Otomat Mk2 Blok IV is the latest version. Ordered for MMI (Italian navy), testing ended in 2007. KBW re-commissioned on July 13, 2007. Seems a little close.

By relatively simple I mean they are in the light frigate category.

"the most modern frigate of its class in the region according to the Bangladesh Navy."
Key operant statements here are 'off its class' and 'in the region'. Singapore's Formidable class ships are more modern but somewhat larger displacement. Pakistan's ex-UK Type 21's are similar displacement and probably less advanced in some respects. China's Jiangwei II is also similar displacement. It's SSMs are probably comparable to the Otomat, its electronics less advanced but it does have a SAM system. India's Godavari/Brahmaputra classes are somewhat larger, much like the Singaporean ships, and have SAMs as well as twin helicopters: difficult to compare. However, I think the Lekiu Class frigates of Malaysia is more advanced in most respects.

BNS Osman got new SSMs and a datalink. Otherwise it is an elderly design (Jianghu), with elderly systems, both in terms of armaments and sensors. Judging by PLAN modernizations, it is unlikely that she will receive a chinese SAM system. I'm sorry but that's the way it is and I can't make it better. It doesn't mean it is not a fine ship, or that she is not very usefull.

 

[Penguin]

They most certainly are incorrect. False information.

The vessel was pad for by the Bangladesh government, it was procured in a bilateral deal from South Korea; no extra third party or middle-man was involved. BN did not purchse the vessel from its own finances, rather the government paid for it. Hence corruption charges against the PM; if the Saudis paid for it then why would this happen. The Saudis had absolutely nothing to do with it. I think Bangladesh Navy sources know better about their own vessel than Janes does.

If false information, who stands to benefit and in what way from making up such as story?

 

[Penguin]

I have not counted frigates as OPVs, I had given them as they are used extensively for patrol missions. As BD's maritime territory is smaller than those of some other nations BN can use vessels with less range as an OPV. BD's maritime territory does not extend to thousands of miles so BN does not require OPVs with extraordinarily long ranges.

In fact Island Class OPVs were never really "OPVs"; they were designed to escort British fishing trawlers all the way to Iceland and escort them back. They were never really used as operators would normally use OPVs, that is why they have such long ranges.

The UK's new River Class vessels replace five Island Class offshore patrol vessels which entered service in 1979: range 7,800 nmi
New Zealand's "Protector" Class OPV: range 6,000 nmi
India's planned Naval OPV: 6,000 nmi
Existing Sukanya class: 5,800 nmi
Existing Samar class: 7,000 nmi
Malaysia's Kedah class: 6050 nmi
Hyundai HDP-100C: 7,000 nmi

For definitions of an OPV, see:
http://www.amiinter.com/vessel_type.html
http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/294411

 

[khaled_m_ali]

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[khaled_m_ali]

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[Penguin]

BNS KBW is equipped with FM-90N SAMs, look at its recent pictures and you will understand. It is also equipped with the Otomat Mk.II Block IV; I already gave all the links from most reliable sources but they do not work here in this site. BNS KBW is not a light frigate. BNS KBW has a Z-9C/D naval helicopter. In the region meaning within South Asia; which does not include Malaysia and Singapore but does include India and Pakistan.

BNS Osman got new combat datalinks and Caterpillar Marine engines procured from the US; it is also installed with 2 quad C-802A SSM launchers, giving it 8x C-802A. It has alo received various other upgrades for its systems in its service years with BN. Why would it be unlikely for it to receive Chinese SAMs? BNS KBW being a vessel of South Korean was equipped with FM-90N SAMs with initially did not work but they are now fully functional. So BNS Osman being a Chinese vessel is far more compatible for installation of Chinese SAMs. Additionally for improved ASW capabilities a new sonar system is being procured. In fact the 37mm guns on board can be replaced by Type-730 CIWS and Chinese SAMs (FM-90N and FL-3000N).

This is all I found, and that would indeed appear to be an 8 round FM90 launcher on board BNS KDW: If that's real, I stand corrected (I find it odd, though, there is an image on that webpage with a SAM launcher but the missile system is not listed in the ship description on the same page). It's tonnage makes BNS KBW a light frigate (2000-2500 tns).

Unlike its larger Luda class destroyers, PLAN has not equipped any of its modernized Jianghu's with FM-90. Type 730 CIWS is very expensive. I don't think it would be cost-effective for such an old design to be fully re-equipped (all major systems): that money is better spent on a new ship.

 

[Nishan_101]

BN is going to procure Type-209 attack submarines from Turkey.

Why the old ones tell me breifly about it and why not the U-214 it is becoz of cost or they don't want to invest or they refused to give u a sub like U-214. Becoz PAK wit even an economy collapse is going for a U-214 about 3 of and u BD's wose economic conditions are really well isn't going for it.
You BD's were talking with other on you surface fleet i was thinking that wy tings like this although you have good reserves i'm sure i know that u can't invest your whole reserve on weapons but some amount is quite legal
I mean BD's navy should try to procure and make it simpler navy like:
4 : F-22P class frigate.
2-3 : Mine hunters.
4 : Corvettes (if needed).
3 : Subs (could be the used ones like type-209/ U-214)
10 : MRTP-33's
2-3 : Costal tankers

I want u to give me a link about the sub type-209 u are talking about ok.
I wanted to say especially to all senior members of tis forum that u people should try to guide me on wat type of corvettes , Subs and mine hunters should they procure without trying to give their own choice of fleet ok.Coz its being calculated ok.

 

[HAIDER]

I think turkish govt most probably providing soft loan to Bangladash, plus I think BN navy is not ready to use any high tech sub like 214 or may be not offered by Germany, cuz it extremely high tech and even better then French scorps. As far as Piskistan navy, they separate section for Sub warfare school.

 

[khaled_m_ali]

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