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Pakistan to acquire six submarines from China

If i am not wrong India too bring steel from Russia for building its nuclear power sub building so it is not so headache for Pakistan to get submarine grade steel from other country such as china if pakistan wants to construct submarine in Pakistan .
 
Hi Mr. Monitor, yes there is nothing wrong with importing something if it is cheaper than producing it yourself. However, in this particular case there is the question of critical and must have technology. I am sure China can produce steel used in submarine construction cheaper than Pakistan, simply due to economies of scale. China builds a lot more naval vessels. I am talking more from a case of Pakistan being immune to future sanctions and having all the key techologies in house going forward.
 
Hi Mr. Monitor, yes there is nothing wrong with importing something if it is cheaper than producing it yourself. However, in this particular case there is the question of critical and must have technology. I am sure China can produce steel used in submarine construction cheaper than Pakistan, simply due to economies of scale. China builds a lot more naval vessels. I am talking more from a case of Pakistan being immune to future sanctions and having all the key techologies in house going forward.

If you think this is a bout cost/price, I think you are completely missing the point.
 
Its not about affordability but quality available in house, merged with technology acquired from aboard. We already had sufficient high strength steel manufacturing capability but not specific to submarine related. All we needed was the know how, technological expertise, pressurization, refining, molding skill, machinery as per the requirement. If we didn't have the tech, we would have bought it from outside no matter how expensive it was. The prime concern here is "requirement". KSEW also has sufficient resources along with other private, Govt corporations to meet the naval product demand. Little off topic, but Fourth F-22p uses locally manufactured steel.
 
If PN is looking for AIP submarines, then the deal would most likely be a Type 039G or a Type 041.

That would seriously boost the PN's ability to defend its waters as well as to penetrate enemy waters with ease, especially with the submarines' tear drop shaped hull.

It would also serve as a weapons platform for anti-ship missiles and cruise missiles. It would be perfect for shore patrol or for bombardment of enemy targets deep inside enemy territory.

It's unlikely that newer subs such as the Type 041A or Improved Yuan would be exported since they have to meet China's quota first.
 
PN was offered 039G but rejected as we were already operating Agosta 90Bs with similar dimensions in size, tonnage, displacement etc. but more advanced combat management systems, sensors, weapons, sonars, etc. What we are interested in is the 041 series customized for PAK Navy requirements in almost every dimension possible. Our navy requirement is very stringent as we have to face a much larger, powerful adversary, so we need the best bang for our buck. I remember when French offered the Merlin project, the level of customization presented to them in baseline (already fairly advanced by French export standards) model included even a seven blade propeller instead of traditional one and this left French surprised as to how deeply we scrutinize our procurements but i guess this is natural when one has limited resources and want to make the most out of it. Similar approach to Israelis in some way atleast.
 
Nabil,

I will be delighted if China could produce a non-magnetic hull for us which German U212 has. Is there any possibilities of that??
 
Nabil,

I will be delighted if China could produce a non-magnetic hull for us which German U212 has. Is there any possibilities of that??

Considering their spending on R&D, level and pace of technology development, resources, i do believe they will get there soon. What i have heard is that, type 41 is the quietest conventional submarine ever made by China to date and is considered a serious challenge to US, Japan and other navies rivaling PLAN. It is considered at least on par with Soryo class (Japan) which is the most advanced sub in Japanese Navy as of now. Not a bad option for us at all.
 
If i am not wrong India too bring steel from Russia for building its nuclear power sub building so it is not so headache for Pakistan to get submarine grade steel from other country such as china if pakistan wants to construct submarine in Pakistan .

No the steel is produce by DRDO & SAIL.
 
New-gen submarines: Pakistan steals a march on India

Ajay Banerjee/TNS
New Delhi, January 20

Even as India has announced its intent to have new generation diesel-electric submarines, Pakistan has gone ahead and signed a deal with long-standing ally China to produce submarines with the same technology that India wants.

The Pakistan Navy and China’s Ship Building Corporation signed a deal that got the seal of finality during the visit of Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao to Pakistan last December. Indian security agencies in know of the matter have cautioned the government that this could tilt the balance in favour of the Pakistan Navy in the Arabian Sea.

India is looking to spend Rs 50,000 crore to acquire six new diesel-electric submarines that will be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology to boost operational capabilities. Conventional diesel-electric submarines have to surface every couple of days for oxygen to recharge their batteries. A submarine using AIP technology can stay submerged for 12-15 days at a stretch, thus increasing its capacity to hunt down enemy warships without being detected. Nuclear powered submarines can stay underwater for even longer periods.

Under the latest agreement, China will co-produce six AIP technology submarines with Pakistan. Currently, the neighbouring navy has only one submarine -- PNS Hamza. Pakistan is also looking at an AIP system produced by a French or German maker to fit on to the Chinese made hull of the vessel, said an official.

What is worrying for India is the known pace of Chinese construction. China could well provide three-four new generation AIP technology submarines to the neigbouring country within two years. The Chinese had supplied four frigates to the Pakistan Navy in 18 months flat! The two nations have also co-produced the single-engine J-17 fighter that was inducted into the Pakistan Air Force last summer.

For India, it could take upto five years to induct its first such submarine, as it will have to go through the process of trying out offers from various global bidders before ordering the vessels.

The Indian Navy has a bigger fleet in terms of number but it is dwindling and will be down to eight conventional diesel-electric vessels by 2015. By then, the first of the six under-construction Scorpene submarines will join the fleet followed by five more till 2018. The AIP technology vessels will follow later. Going by estimates, Pakistan would complete the induction of its fleet of AIP technology vessels by the time India starts off with its line of such submarines.

However, India will maintain its edge over Pakistan in case of nuclear-powered submarines. It hopes to induct the Akula-II Class attack submarine K-152 Nerpa on a 10-year lease from Russia in the next few weeks while the first indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant is expected to be inducted by early-2012.

Indian Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma has already declared that nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant would be on ‘deterrent patrol’ to provide the ability of a retaliatory ‘second strike’ if the country faces a nuclear attack.

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Nation

IN will posses 5-6 nuclear subs by 2015.Pakistan Navy will be obsolete compared to IN
 
Sorry folks,

It's just an assembly job in Pakistan. Everything will actually be manufactued in China.


Pakistan to acquire six submarines from China
MUSHTAQ GHUMMAN
[...]
The parties have agreed to the following: (i) to invest jointly to develop one new type of conventional submarines with AIP. And the methodology of investment will be discussed when the project becomes reality; (2) CSOC shall appoint one institute to design conventional AIP submarines as per agreement by both sides; (3) for the purpose of establishing agreed technical requirements/ joint development, the parties shall initially work on the base line technical requirements; (4) during joint development, CSOC shall endeavour to incorporate PN requirement to establish final technical specifications for the conventional AIP submarines to be co-produced. Final design shall be certified by CSOC to fulfil pre-requisite as per Chinese military/ Navel standards for conventional AIP submarines; (5) CSOC shall ensure that these submarines shall be fully capable to operate in multi-threat environment under tropical conditions and capable of launching of torpedoes and missiles of Chinese origin; (6) CSOC shall completely construct four submarines at its yard in China; (7) remaining two submarines shall be constructed at PN yard in Pakistan as per the Chinese standards after up-gradation of PN yard by CSOC.

For this, Kit of Material(KoM) of these submarines shall be provided by CSOC; (8) CSOC shall provide lead yard services for completion and outfitting of these submarines at the PN yard in Pakistan;(9) CSOC shall carry out and be responsible for all tests and trials of all KoM, machinery and systems in harbour and at sea.

PN shall provide all necessary facilities and arrangements for harbour and sea trials in Pakistan; (10) CSOC shall be responsible for performance of all submarines to be built in Pakistan, their equipment, machinery and systems in trials in harbour and at sea; (11) CSOC shall also provide technical know-how for construction of conventional AIP submarines along with associated support and lead yard services;(12) CSOC shall provide materials and support services for construction and outfitting and trials of all submarines and after sales/ construction support for at least 30 years; (13) CSOC, for the purpose of up-gradation of maintenance facilities and after sales support, shall provide a comprehensive ILS package for the co-developed/ co-produced conventional AIP submarines; (15) CSOC, for the obligation in the agreement, shall submit a technical proposal, covering all elements of joint development and co-production including operational training and ILS, for the purpose of contract formulation as soon as possible; (16) CSOC, for the obligations listed above, shall submit a commercial proposal, covering all budgetary estimates/ costing of joint development and co-production and financial support proposal for the purpose of contract formulation as soon as possible; (17) PN shall facilitate visits of CSOC's team for site survey/ maintenance facilities to formulate technical and financial proposal by CSOC;(18) PN agrees to respect all the CSOC's reasonable instructions/advises related to building, outfitting, test, trials, upgrading and its yard and quality control; and (19) PN shall where possible provide all agreed information to assist CSOC in its obligations and pay CSOC for all the items and services as per the financial terms to be agreed during formal contract formulation.
 
can any one tell me

wil all the subs manufactured in pak or some in china and some in pak?
 

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