Pakistan to acquire six submarines from China

[Jigs]

The type 41 seems viable to me. If Pakistan went with those. Whether these are on par with western submarines is speculation though. Germany has been putting out submarines since WW2 they have it down to a science at this point(other European nations have operated out of consortium's on some very capable submarines). This is china's second fully Chinese made sub (however i am sure many systems are based off foreign technology like the first one was) I wouldn't say whatever they made is outdated though.

We have to look at this in context with India. They operate Kilos and Type 209s with different modifications. They are now bringing in Scorpène class(6 of them). No doubt this is probably what pakistan is looking to counter but unlike India the prospect of paying 3 billion dollars for them is not possible for Pakistan. So the Chinese options are the only ones left. That or a smaller purchase.

 

[Penguin]

thats what i m concerned about ,Chinese technology specially the submarines are far inferior than the western one i think PN would have concentrated more on quality than quantity but anyways just cross your fingers and lets see what Yuan class holds but no doubt whatever it holds its still going to be inferior than U boats

Far inferior??? Considering the steps from Ming to Song to Yuan .... not all that inferior, I would say. Besides, consider that UK in 1982 (still) found WW2+ Guppy class sub a thread during Falklands war...
Greater Underwater Propulsion Power Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Catfish_(SS-339)

 

[VelocuR]

we know Pakistan can afford U-214s which cost $330+ million per submarine, no excuse!

Approximately 3-4 submarines should start immediately ($2-3billions-10 years term). But Germany want 5 years term.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Far inferior??? Considering the steps from Ming to Song to Yuan .... not all that inferior, I would say. Besides, consider that UK in 1982 (still) found WW2+ Guppy class sub a thread during Falklands war...
Greater Underwater Propulsion Power Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Catfish_(SS-339)

Not to mention the new Qing class SSK

one on the left

 

[Dazzler]

i see type 41 yuan as a capable system in our case even better than A-90bs, reason is the technology in aip is fuel cell instead of mesma's ethanol based aip. Only german u212/14 use this tech. Yuan seems to be an attempt to replicate the u boats to me....

 

[tanlixiang28776]

i see type 41 yuan as a capable system in our case even better than A-90bs, reason is the technology in aip is fuel cell instead of mesma's ethanol based aip. Only german u212/14 use this tech. Yuan seems to be an attempt to replicate the u boats to me....

Yuans are at least twice the size of any U-boat. They are completely dissimilar.

 

[Penguin]

Yuans are at least twice the size of any U-boat. They are completely dissimilar.

Type 212
Displacement: 1,450 tonnes surfaced, 1,830 tonnes submerged
Length: 56 m (183.7 ft)
57.2 m (187.66 ft) (2nd batch)
Beam: 7 m (22.96 ft)
Draft: 6 m (19.68 ft)

Type 214
Displacement: 1,690 t (surfaced), 1,860 t (submerged)
Length: 213 feet 3 inches (65.0 m)
Beam: 20 feet 8 inches (6.3 m)
Draught: 19 feet 8 inches (6.0 m)

You are suggesting 3650 tons submerged? Fine, but I don't see how that makes these subs 'completely dissimilar' (it's mainly length and some diameter difference...)

Agosta 90B
Displacement: 1,500 long tons (1,524 t) surfaced
1,760 long tons (1,788 t) submerged (France, Spain)
2,050 long tons (2,083 t) submerged (Pakistan)
Length: 67 m (219 ft 10 in) (France, Spain)
76 m (249 ft 4 in) (Pakistan)
Beam: 6 m (19 ft 8 in)

Walrus class (NL)
Displacement: 2,350 t surfaced, 2,650 t submerged, 1,900 t standard
Length: 67.73 m
Beam: 8.4 m
Draft: 6.6 m
Kilo class (R)

Displacement: Surfaced: 2,300-2,350 tons, Submerged:3,000-4,000 tons full load
Length: 70.0-74.0 meters
Draft: 6.5 m

Oyashio class (J)
Displacement: 2,750 tonnes (surfaced)
4,000 tonnes (submerged)
Length: 81.7 metres (268 ft 1 in)
Beam: 8.9 metres (29 ft 2 in)
Draught: 7.4 metres (24 ft 3 in)

 

[Dazzler]

Yuans are at least twice the size of any U-boat. They are completely dissimilar.

I didnt mean the size and dimensions, rather in terms of capability and approach and mentioned the Stirling tech based fuel cell AIP too, hydro dynamic sleek profile more stealthy than any previous Chinese submarine aided by rubber tile coating and much reduced overall noise levels.

 

[araz]

With pleasure Araz bro, the Chinese are catching up in every facet of defense technology, the latest subs, with their AIP propulsion and sensor's are on par with, and in some cases surpassing western technology. With countries like Pakistan which previously had many western weapons - that recognition of the improvement will become more well known.

Could you please elaborate which spheres the chinese are better than the west in. The other point to note is that PN has a plan to have 12 subs. 6 Yuans plus 3 90Bs make 9.I know 70s are also being upgraded, but the chnages according to various people are not going to make nuch of a difference to these old workhorses. What do you foresee PN buying to make up the numbers?
There has also been talk of midget subs for more littoral roles and covert ops. Is there any update on that. Response would be appreciated.
Araz

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The other point to note is that PN has a plan to have 12 subs. 6 Yuans plus 3 90Bs make 9.I know 70s are also being upgraded, but the chnages according to various people are not going to make nuch of a difference to these old workhorses. What do you foresee PN buying to make up the numbers?
There has also been talk of midget subs for more littoral roles and covert ops. Is there any update on that. Response would be appreciated.
Araz

My speculative opinion on the 12 sub plan is that the remaining three will be a newer design after the current program to design/construct 6 subs with the Chines comes to fruition.

Alternatively, there might be a possibility that the PN might still opt for the 3 German U-214 subs if the economic situation improves, but I would consider that a long shot.

---------- Post added at 09:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------

The other point to note is that PN has a plan to have 12 subs. 6 Yuans plus 3 90Bs make 9.I know 70s are also being upgraded, but the chnages according to various people are not going to make nuch of a difference to these old workhorses. What do you foresee PN buying to make up the numbers?
There has also been talk of midget subs for more littoral roles and covert ops. Is there any update on that. Response would be appreciated.
Araz

My speculative opinion on the 12 sub plan is that the remaining three will be a newer design after the current program to design/construct 6 subs with the Chines comes to fruition.

Alternatively, there might be a possibility that the PN might still opt for the 3 German U-214 subs if the economic situation improves, but I would consider that a long shot.

 

[Rafi]

According to my sources - there will be development's that will be Pakistani specific, this is not limited to, but would include a plug, for 6-8 Vertically Launched LR-LACM with at least 1000 km range.

 

[Dazzler]

Yuan in its current/ modified form will be a formidable submarine tech we can get for now but as good as it is with new combat data system, AIP, possible VLS plug for CMs, near stealth patrolling capability etc but one area where the U 212 (NOT 214) excels is the revolutionary Anti-Magnetic Hull technology which is strictly for German fleet. I dearly wish if Chinese are able to replicate something even close to this!!! AMH tech makes the 212 as stealth under the ocean as F-22 raptor in the sky!

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

 

[Penguin]

According to my sources - there will be development's that will be Pakistani specific, this is not limited to, but would include a plug, for 6-8 Vertically Launched LR-LACM with at least 1000 km range.

ANd these srouces are ?

 

[Indus Falcon]

ANd these srouces are ?

Cannot to be disclosed on a public forum. Wait and see!!

 

[Penguin]

Cannot to be disclosed on a public forum. Wait and see!!

Not verifiable. I'm not expecting name rank and serial number .... (but nothing doesn''t quite cut it either ;-)