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Pakistan Seeks To Energize Naval Modernization

Muhammad Omar

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ISLAMABAD — Pakistan hopes to revive its naval modernization program through a warship construction deal with China that will also expand Pakistan's shipbuilding industry.

Chinese media reports have outlined a construction program involving six of eight S-20 variants of the Type-039A/Type-041 submarine under negotiation; four "Improved F-22P" frigates equipped with enhanced sensors and weaponry (possibly including the HQ-17 surface-to-air missile developed from the Russian Tor 1/SA-N-9); and six Type-022 Houbei stealth catamaran missile boats, to be built by Pakistan's state-owned shipbuilder Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW).

The reports indicate Type-022 construction may be delayed by the ongoing Azmat fast attack craft building program, but also highlight a significant expansion of KSEW's facilities.

These include a foundry, fabrication facilities to cover all aspects of ship construction, berthing facilities, and two graving docks of 26,000 and 18,000 dead weight tons, spread over 71 acres.

A 7,881-ton ship lift transfer system will be completed next year.

KSEW will expand to occupy facilities vacated by the Navy as it transfers from Karachi to Ormara. The Pakistan Navy Dockyard, which is adjacent to KSEW, already has facilities upgraded by the French during construction of Agosta-90B submarines.

Pakistani officials would not comment on these reports. Repeated attempts to secure comment from the Ministry of Defence Production, KSEW, the Navy and federal politicians connected with defense decision-making bodies were turned away.

The program will follow a Sino-Pakistani agreement for six patrol vessels for Pakistan's Maritime Security Agency agreed to on June 10, with two built by KSEW.

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad Brian Cloughley said the groundwork laid by the Agosta-90B program that included upgrades to PN Dockyard facilities and the training of some 1,000 civilian technicians greatly facilitated present plans.

However, Trevor Taylor, professorial research fellow, defense, industries and society, at the Royal United Services Institute highlighted the problems KSEW's construction and expansion plans could encounter.

"Experience from around the world shows that it is very easy to be optimistic about the difficulty of naval shipbuilding and the time taken to complete construction and systems integration," he said. "Plans for rapid expansion of warship production are unlikely to proceed on schedule. The coordinated and sustained application of extensive managerial and technical skills is required, and submarines especially have vital safety dimensions."

He highlights the importance of a sustainable program.

"The lesson from the UK and elsewhere is that, once a warship design and build capability is in place, it is best maintained and developed through a planned and steady drumbeat of programs, rather than a rapid expansion of activity for a limited period of years followed by a sudden drop-off in orders. Clearly this requires a consistent stance of support for the industry from political authorities."

Cloughley is optimistic, however, that the extensive Chinese help provided to Pakistan in warship construction, in addition to agreements made during Chinese President Xi Jinping's recent visit, "indicate that all types of cooperation will continue and expand."

He said this is related to the burgeoning Indo-US relationship, India's increasingly antagonistic anti-Pakistani rhetoric, and clearer Sino-Indian divisions that mean the Sino-Pakistan "axis of understanding has become more tangible."

Consequently, "KSEW can expect considerable input from such as [China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co]. Money, certainly; but also, and perhaps of more importance, provision of expertise."

He said China's help will also further increase the number of skilled technicians as "there are many would-be technicians with great potential who cannot obtain training," which China is aware of "and has planned accordingly," with KSEW also running a training program.

Cloughley said the Chinese investment and involvement will ensure the program's sustainability.

"Given China's amazingly large financial commitment to cooperation with Pakistan, there is no doubt that Beijing will be calling the tune. And KSEW and many other establishments will be pleased to dance to it."

Though the naval expansion plan is impressive and will ensure future refit and modernization work, analyst Haris Kahn of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said with the decommissioning of Type-21 frigates it still only meets Pakistan's "minimum naval deterrence."

"The Navy needs close to 20 large surface vessels [frigates and heavy frigates]" of which at least three should be ships able to provide area air defense, as the "F-22P will not cut it and the need of longer-range SAM coverage is essential."

"Unfortunately, with the serious shortage of funds we have not even heard about anywhere else the Navy is looking to get these much-needed vessels," he added.

To meet its requirements for larger warships, Pakistan had hoped to acquire approximately six Perry-class frigates from the US, but Nilanthi Samaranayake, Indian Ocean analyst at the US-based CNA, a nonprofit research and analysis organization, said this route is now blocked "due to congressional obstacles."

However, Samaranayake still sees a need for such frigates to "support its counterpiracy and maritime security operations under combined maritime forces."

Cloughley cites Indian influence in Washington for their unavailability, but though Pakistan still desires more Perry-class frigates "on easy or gift terms ... the lure of Chinese ships combined with the massive [Chinese] investment program and Pakistan's increasing disenchantment with Washington would seem to militate against any movement [toward the US]," and Pakistan will certainly look to China in time.

Source: China will provide six patrol ships to Pakistan for CPEC protection | Page 9
 
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Technically speaking, PN has a lot to improve as compared to the Indian navy. The army should focus on Navy now.
 
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Technically speaking, PN has a lot to improve as compared to the Indian navy. The army should focus on Navy now.

army is busy trying to find a replacement of Assault Rifle + New Tanks Tests + new Heli evaluation for Army Aviation even heard news about Armored Vehicles and IFV
 
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army is busy trying to find a replacement of Assault Rifle + New Tanks Tests + new Heli evaluation for Army Aviation even heard news about Armored Vehicles and IFV

Army and our Airforce are doing really good. But our Navy needs more money in terms of equipment as you've mentioned in this article. Will these submarines compensate the requirement?
 
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Army and our Airforce are doing really good. But our Navy needs more money in terms of equipment as you've mentioned in this article. Will these submarines compensate the requirement?

true i really want PN to have some Type 054 ans 2 3 type 052
 
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Improvements for the new F 22Ps should include VLS, AESA, something like DK 10 and also CX-01.
 
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Unfortunately Zardari and his appointed staff in navy have destroyed Navy. Worst was the naval chief appointed by him.. brother of the foreign secretary... again appointed by very same zardari.
Navy and airforce need to purge its ranks from Zardari appointed and posted staff.
 
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Chinese media generally believe "Improved F-22P" have “HQ-17” system.(Add at least)

The HQ-17 is a Chinese development of the Tor-M1 system with multiple improvements. Unlike the Tor system, the HQ-17 incorporates an IFF array on top of an electronically scanned array radar, modernized electronics, a new all-terrain launcher, and the ability to datalink with other Chinese systems.
(Car version)
 
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Chinese media generally believe "Improved F-22P" have “HQ-17” system.(Add at least)

The HQ-17 is a Chinese development of the Tor-M1 system with multiple improvements. Unlike the Tor system, the HQ-17 incorporates an IFF array on top of an electronically scanned array radar, modernized electronics, a new all-terrain launcher, and the ability to datalink with other Chinese systems.
(Car version)

post the URL link please
 
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Unfortunately Zardari and his appointed staff in navy have destroyed Navy. Worst was the naval chief appointed by him.. brother of the foreign secretary... again appointed by very same zardari.
Navy and airforce need to purge its ranks from Zardari appointed and posted staff.
noman and salman bashir both were criminally negligient and used political leverage to get to the apex.
Re garding Asif sandila i would say he was an efficient chief and did the damage control v well and for the present chief zaka ullah I can assure you he is the best man for the job , a true professional soldier who knows integrity and responsibility very well. I know that since I personally know both the families very well. Zaka uncle is not just a good soldier but also a very good human being. Glory to you sir.
 
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noman and salman bashir both were criminally negligient and used political leverage to get to the apex.
Re garding Asif sandila i would say he was an efficient chief and did the damage control v well and for the present chief zaka ullah I can assure you he is the best man for the job , a true professional soldier who knows integrity and responsibility very well. I know that since I personally know both the families very well. Zaka uncle is not just a good soldier but also a very good human being. Glory to you sir.

I was talking about Bashir brothers alone. I trust rest of the lot is top notch.
 
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ISLAMABAD — Pakistan hopes to revive its naval modernization program through a warship construction deal with China that will also expand Pakistan's shipbuilding industry.

Chinese media reports have outlined a construction program involving six of eight S-20 variants of the Type-039A/Type-041 submarine under negotiation; four "Improved F-22P" frigates equipped with enhanced sensors and weaponry (possibly including the HQ-17 surface-to-air missile developed from the Russian Tor 1/SA-N-9); and six Type-022 Houbei stealth catamaran missile boats, to be built by Pakistan's state-owned shipbuilder Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW).

The reports indicate Type-022 construction may be delayed by the ongoing Azmat fast attack craft building program, but also highlight a significant expansion of KSEW's facilities.

These include a foundry, fabrication facilities to cover all aspects of ship construction, berthing facilities, and two graving docks of 26,000 and 18,000 dead weight tons, spread over 71 acres.

A 7,881-ton ship lift transfer system will be completed next year.

KSEW will expand to occupy facilities vacated by the Navy as it transfers from Karachi to Ormara. The Pakistan Navy Dockyard, which is adjacent to KSEW, already has facilities upgraded by the French during construction of Agosta-90B submarines.

Pakistani officials would not comment on these reports. Repeated attempts to secure comment from the Ministry of Defence Production, KSEW, the Navy and federal politicians connected with defense decision-making bodies were turned away.

The program will follow a Sino-Pakistani agreement for six patrol vessels for Pakistan's Maritime Security Agency agreed to on June 10, with two built by KSEW.

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad Brian Cloughley said the groundwork laid by the Agosta-90B program that included upgrades to PN Dockyard facilities and the training of some 1,000 civilian technicians greatly facilitated present plans.

However, Trevor Taylor, professorial research fellow, defense, industries and society, at the Royal United Services Institute highlighted the problems KSEW's construction and expansion plans could encounter.

"Experience from around the world shows that it is very easy to be optimistic about the difficulty of naval shipbuilding and the time taken to complete construction and systems integration," he said. "Plans for rapid expansion of warship production are unlikely to proceed on schedule. The coordinated and sustained application of extensive managerial and technical skills is required, and submarines especially have vital safety dimensions."

He highlights the importance of a sustainable program.

"The lesson from the UK and elsewhere is that, once a warship design and build capability is in place, it is best maintained and developed through a planned and steady drumbeat of programs, rather than a rapid expansion of activity for a limited period of years followed by a sudden drop-off in orders. Clearly this requires a consistent stance of support for the industry from political authorities."

Cloughley is optimistic, however, that the extensive Chinese help provided to Pakistan in warship construction, in addition to agreements made during Chinese President Xi Jinping's recent visit, "indicate that all types of cooperation will continue and expand."

He said this is related to the burgeoning Indo-US relationship, India's increasingly antagonistic anti-Pakistani rhetoric, and clearer Sino-Indian divisions that mean the Sino-Pakistan "axis of understanding has become more tangible."

Consequently, "KSEW can expect considerable input from such as [China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co]. Money, certainly; but also, and perhaps of more importance, provision of expertise."

He said China's help will also further increase the number of skilled technicians as "there are many would-be technicians with great potential who cannot obtain training," which China is aware of "and has planned accordingly," with KSEW also running a training program.

Cloughley said the Chinese investment and involvement will ensure the program's sustainability.

"Given China's amazingly large financial commitment to cooperation with Pakistan, there is no doubt that Beijing will be calling the tune. And KSEW and many other establishments will be pleased to dance to it."

Though the naval expansion plan is impressive and will ensure future refit and modernization work, analyst Haris Kahn of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said with the decommissioning of Type-21 frigates it still only meets Pakistan's "minimum naval deterrence."

"The Navy needs close to 20 large surface vessels [frigates and heavy frigates]" of which at least three should be ships able to provide area air defense, as the "F-22P will not cut it and the need of longer-range SAM coverage is essential."

"Unfortunately, with the serious shortage of funds we have not even heard about anywhere else the Navy is looking to get these much-needed vessels," he added.

To meet its requirements for larger warships, Pakistan had hoped to acquire approximately six Perry-class frigates from the US, but Nilanthi Samaranayake, Indian Ocean analyst at the US-based CNA, a nonprofit research and analysis organization, said this route is now blocked "due to congressional obstacles."

However, Samaranayake still sees a need for such frigates to "support its counterpiracy and maritime security operations under combined maritime forces."

Cloughley cites Indian influence in Washington for their unavailability, but though Pakistan still desires more Perry-class frigates "on easy or gift terms ... the lure of Chinese ships combined with the massive [Chinese] investment program and Pakistan's increasing disenchantment with Washington would seem to militate against any movement [toward the US]," and Pakistan will certainly look to China in time.

Source: China will provide six patrol ships to Pakistan for CPEC protection | Page 9
Pakistan needs to go for at least 6 Type 54 A from China and also a get 4 to 6 Milgem Corvettes from Turkey. After these we need to focus on Destroyers 8 F-22 P Frigates are not enough. We need lot more
 
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So 8 subs
4 F22P frigates
6 type 022 missile boats


Its a start, but we need some heavier ships and especially ships that csn provide LR Sam coverage
 
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post the URL link please

红旗-17(HQ-17)

中国将助巴海军造大型军舰|导弹|潜艇_凤凰资讯
中国将助巴海军造大型军舰
……
中国媒体公布了一些正在谈判的制造项目,包括8艘039A型/041型潜艇的衍生型S-20中的6艘;4艘装备了增强传感器和武器系统的改进版F-22P护卫舰(可能含从俄制“道尔”1/SA-N-9发展而来的“红旗-17”地对空导弹);6艘022型“候北”级隐形双体导弹艇。据悉,这些装备部分将由巴基斯坦卡拉奇造船及工程建造厂负责制造。
……

深度:巴铁海军为何要狂购中国造战舰 中巴共抗衡印度|巴基斯坦|中国|海军_新浪军事

深度:巴铁海军为何要狂购中国造战舰 中巴共抗衡印度
……
  而且,巴基斯坦海军还计划采购4艘F-22P改进型护卫舰。据悉,该型护卫舰将安装红旗-17导弹系统。红旗-17导弹系统是在俄罗斯SA-N-9系统的基础上研制而来的。不过也有消息称,巴基斯坦想从美国手中获得“佩里”级护卫舰,但由于印度从中作梗,该项军购未能成型。
……

美:中国对巴基斯坦作出数额令人惊讶的金融承诺_军事_中华网

美:中国对巴基斯坦作出数额令人惊讶的金融承诺
……
最近中国媒体公布了一些正在谈判的制造项目,包括8艘039A型/041型潜艇的衍生型S-20中的6艘;4艘装备了增强传感器和武器系统的改进版F-22P护卫舰(可能含从俄制“道尔”1/SA-N-9发展而来的“红旗-17”地对空导弹);6艘022型“候北”级隐形双体导弹艇。据悉,这些装备部分将由巴基斯坦卡拉奇造船及工程建造厂(KSEW)负责制造。
……

美媒:中国助巴基斯坦海军现代化 建造隐形导弹艇_军事频道_《参考消息》官方网站

美媒:中国助巴基斯坦海军现代化 建造隐形导弹艇
-----------------------------------------------------
核心提示:报道称,这一军舰建造计划包括正在与巴基斯坦磋商的6到8艘039A型/041型潜艇变体S-20;4艘配备了增强版传感器和武器的改进型F-22P护卫舰;以及将由巴基斯坦国有的卡拉奇造船工程公司建造的6艘022型“红稗”级隐形导弹艇。
-----------------------------------------------------
……

根据中国媒体的描述,这一军舰建造计划包括正在与巴基斯坦磋商的6到8艘039A型/041型潜艇变体S-20;4艘配备了增强版传感器和武器的改进型F-22P护卫舰;以及将由巴基斯坦国有的卡拉奇造船工程公司建造的6艘022型“红稗”级隐形导弹艇。
……



-------------------------------------Chinese Web search-------------------------------------
http://news.baidu.com/ns?ct=0&rn=20&ie=utf-8&bs=F22P 巴基斯坦&rsv_bp=1&sr=0&cl=2&f=8&prevct=no&tn=news&word=F-22P 巴基斯坦&rsv_sug3=2&rsv_sug4=1327&rsv_sug1=1&rsv_sug2=0&inputT=283&rsv_sug=1

In News mode, keyword:”F-22P“,“Pakistan”(巴基斯坦)

http://www.baidu.com/s?ie=utf-8&f=3&rsv_bp=1&tn=baidu&wd=改进型F-22P 红旗17&oq=改进版F-22P 红旗17&rsv_pq=ca2383cb0000f165&rsv_t=b4450OJ4RtIeFj6RRXMT4VJXJdY/ViMUzCXN2yznlDGJzfdpQ2uHD26wWyo&rsv_enter=0&inputT=2774&gpc=stf=1430409600,1442159998|stftype=2&tfflag=1
In Web page mode,keyword:"Improved F-22P"(改进型F-22P),“HQ-17”(红旗-17)
-------------------------------------Chinese Web search-------------------------------------

Wait a minute!!!

I look at the nearly one hundred reports,but I Unable to find any reports of things about
“Chinese media reports”(US DefenseNews:
“Chinese media reports have outlined a construction program involving”

All Chinese websites are merely quoting or translation of this article,Or do analysis based on its content………………

Sorry bro, I have to withdraw the previous words about the “Chinese media generally believe "Improved F-22P" have “HQ-17” system.(Add at least)” , Because of my mistakes caused by imprecise.

And I noticed that the Chinese media about this matter there are two Interpretation.

Part of the media that “PN has purchased four new”.

Another part of the media that “in the past few years have been delivered to PN (four F-22P) is part of the plan”.

In the absence of any official domestic news,unknown on this issue


Sorry guys ( _ _)ノ|
 
Last edited:
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