Pakistan Seeks Thales Damocles Targeting Pod For JF-17 Aircraft

[Quwa]

22 pods set to grow to 37 pods for F-16s. My estimate for JF-17 is more conservative. Refer to above post by @Quwa

I think @Bilal Khan 777 has a valid point.

Remember, at this stage the F-16s are taking on the vast majority (if not entirety) of the PAF's COIN CAS work. These targeting pods are great for close-range strikes, but most of the PAF's strike work (via JF-17) will be devoted towards long-range attacks using glide-bombs and cruise missiles. For such engagements we don't need targeting pods, rather, we'll use BeiDou-assisted INS.

I also doubt the PAF will play a major role in CAS on the Eastern front, that'll be delegated to Army Aviation (hence its pursuit for more attack helicopters). When you look at it that way, the PAF may not need more than 20 targeting pods for JF-17.

 

[nomi007]

chances are rare

because indian will cry

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

22 pods set to grow to 37 pods for F-16s. My estimate for JF-17 is more conservative. Refer to above post by @Quwa

Those are rotables and war reserve, as typical for our F16 material approach to hoard for worse case. These numbers are no correlation with JF17 buy.

 

[Blabla]

chances are rare

because indian will cry

Let them cry we dont give a shit ^^

 

[nomi007]

best option is Turkish pod under tot

can u use on both
F-16s mirages & JF-17 thunder

after raefal deal with india damocles chances are rare

 

[Blabla]

best option is Turkish pod under tot

can u use on both
F-16s mirages & JF-17 thunder

after raefal deal with india damocles chances are rare

It already had a POD which is also quiet good we need to induct more combat jets for future ^^

 

[Taygibay]

... PAF's strike work (via JF-17) will be devoted towards long-range attacks using glide-bombs and cruise missiles. For such engagements we don't need targeting pods, rather, we'll use BeiDou-assisted INS.

Actually, it's much better than that! If you buy a geo-referenced E-map of Pakistan,
or use of or a satellite to map the region, you can pre-set all of it in your jets/weapons.
When Rafale does nap of the Earth flying, it compares SAR imagery from its RBE2-AA
to a GPS-referenced map, its INS and sometimes an outside source ( AWACS, Satcom ).

Smart bombs and cruise missiles follow those too. A huge country may find it somewhat
redhibitory to map from Europe to Asia but Pakistan has a sizeable size advantage here.
Being reasonably compact, such a map is possible at a reasonable cost.
Of course, if it includes some territory of the neighbours, all the better!

Now, one may argue that this is to be redone to follow timely changes.
Except that we are talking terrain and geography and geology and these
don't change that quickly. A mobile missile launcher moves around, a big
town center, not so much. And if everyone remembers parallax, precision
at / near launch is paramount.

Granted that this works best in defensive mode but it still works!
The only real use of real time GPS (/Beidou/Glonass/Galileo, etc) maps is for ...
external ops!

All the best to all of you and all of yours, Tay.

 

[Penguin]

Pakistan is assessing the Thales-made Damocles targeting pod to be mounted on its JF-17 aircraft for giving the fighter precision-targeting capability.

I'm not surprised.

Russia will license-produce the Thales Damocles reconnaissance and target designation pod for its air force strike aircraft, following successful tests of the system with Malaysia's Sukhoi Su-30MKM multirole fighter. Comparative trials involving Damocles and the Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant (UOMZ)-produced Sapsan and Solux targeting pods went in favour of the French design

http://web.archive.org/web/20080118...rs-to-use-thales-damocles-targeting-pods.html

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

50 pods for a fleet of 150 JFT would be my guess. One in three aircraft that is. Export customer can choose their own ratio. 50 pods are sufficient for our requirements I guess. Block-II and Block-III will number 100 I think and they are the ones more likely to receive this upgrade. If a pod costs $2 million and integration costs $1 million per aircraft, we are looking at $200 million right here. Add another $100-$150 million (plain guesstimate from me) for training,establishing repair and maintenance facilities+ spares to keep them working. That's $300-400 million right there for this upgrade. I think it's worth it.

Sir, there might be a choice available for the export customers so could PAF also desire to maintain more then one system?

 

[MastanKhan]

Actually, it's much better than that! If you buy a geo-referenced E-map of Pakistan,
or use of or a satellite to map the region, you can pre-set all of it in your jets/weapons.
When Rafale does nap of the Earth flying, it compares SAR imagery from its RBE2-AA
to a GPS-referenced map, its INS and sometimes an outside source ( AWACS, Satcom ).

Smart bombs and cruise missiles follow those too. A huge country may find it somewhat
redhibitory to map from Europe to Asia but Pakistan has a sizeable size advantage here.
Being reasonably compact, such a map is possible at a reasonable cost.
Of course, if it includes some territory of the neighbours, all the better!

Now, one may argue that this is to be redone to follow timely changes.
Except that we are talking terrain and geography and geology and these
don't change that quickly. A mobile missile launcher moves around, a big
town center, not so much. And if everyone remembers parallax, precision
at / near launch is paramount.

Granted that this works best in defensive mode but it still works!
The only real use of real time GPS (/Beidou/Glonass/Galileo, etc) maps is for ...
external ops!

All the best to all of you and all of yours, Tay.

Hi,

Thank you for an excellent post----I personally believe that there was too much being made of the AVM interview---.

The news paper made it look like that the JF17 BLK2 is impotent---toothless---. Such is not the case.

 

[Akasa]

I know. I am just trolling those defence enthusiast

The bottom line is China as well as Pakistan would rush to fill up their aircrafts with western sensors and suite if given an chance. And they are hampered by the non availability of it

It's quite unlikely that the Chinese will take up any significant interest in Western avionics at this stage. Their domestic chip and semiconductor industry have matured to the point where their military can select its sensors through inter-corporate competition, a luxury that many Western nations don't have.

That is true if you want to market J17 primarily for export alone. But if you want to use it for PAF, then you will do anything to make it better, especially an aircraft which Pakistan call its own.
You might even call it prestige factor, and it is.

Even if an aircraft is meant for domestic use, maintenance and MLU costs all factor into the air force budget.

And there is a reason, why PAF wants F16 in place of J10. Even if given an opportunity of 20 free J10 in place of 10 costly F16, PAF will simply go for F16. The reliability and its technology simply better.

That is quite a bold assumption that needs data and evidence to back it up.

An export customer might have asked for top notch targetting pod and willing to foot the bill. Given Insurgency is order of the day, I will not be surprised if nations are more interested in guiding bombs to the target than BVRs to the hostile aircraft. Iraq and Nigeria comes to mind. They might have such requirements.

[Edit]. PAF would be beneficiary as well. Greater numbers of pod ordered will bring per unit cost down as well as integration costs distributed over several aircraft and nations.

If insurgency is what the Damocles fits the bill for, then developing countries would have made greater sense to purchase cheaper targeting pods that would still suffice for attacks against insurgents.

 

[Paksanity]

Sir, there might be a choice available for the export customers so could PAF also desire to maintain more then one system?

Unlikely, I would say. Costs will go up and it would not make financial and logistical sense to procure, operate and maintain more than one targeting system. Pakistan should retain best available for its own fleet. For exports, it should be choice of customer. On another note, Russia can license produce Damocles pods. I don't know if they are authorised to export this copy as well. We could look at that possibility as well.

If insurgency is what the Damocles fits the bill for, then developing countries would have made greater sense to purchase cheaper targeting pods that would still suffice for attacks against insurgents.

If job is done at a lower cost, it will always remain a preferred option. Export customers like Myanmar will likely go the WMD way. But Pakistan would choose a pod which can also perform well in a conventional war against a large well equipped enemy. I am inclined to think it will be Turkish, Western or perhaps even Russian. China has some catch up to do in developing targeting pods, I guess.

 

[airmarshal]

With China developing so fast, I m wondering why it couldnt build a pod half as good as Damocles? Whydid we need to go for a western targeting pod?

 

[volatile]

I think POD is needed but one thing which gives me little hint is Chinese EW/Radar/Other Electronic package are naive they can do the job for A to B but missing tricks .The pod is one thing but in general PAF is looking for Western proven package but with SAAB/RAFALE going crazy these days option are limited

 

[MastanKhan]

. And there is a reason, why PAF wants F16 in place of J10. Even if given an opportunity of 20 free J10 in place of 10 costly F16, PAF will simply go for F16. The reliability and its technology simply better.

Hi,

It would be for the reason the F16 Mafia rules the roost in pakistan airforce.