Pakistan Seeks Thales Damocles Targeting Pod For JF-17 Aircraft

[Dazzler]

Has WMD-7 gone through any upgrade in last 6-8 years? I remember Sniper becoming operational in 2010 and in its next upgraded iteration they added a datalink in Sniper ATP with in 2-3 years. As no up-gradations to make WMD-7 more advance/compact/shed weight and with pushing OC-5 on upgraded J-10's. We can clearly see why PAF is not going for WMD-7 because China has no plan to further develop WMD-7 and as we all know WMD-7 has become useless or a handicap in today's scenario because of the limited functionality and being bulky

Wmd-7 is used in jh-7, did u mis the picture? Chinese are working on several types of pods, wmd-7 and OC series being just two of them. The daddy of them all, the filat, had many children, whose offsprings are only now being shown. The family has entered its third generation and more children are expected. PAF didn't reject the wmd-7, otherwise theyd never show it with the jf-17 in the first place. On OC series, it started its journey on q5 as being solely a laser designator. Batch improvements continued and saw it gaining more functions but the wmd-7 had IR, laser, TV, auto tracking bundled from the beginning. China does use it on jh-7 and they have elaborate plans in place for up gradation, including longer range, lighter weight and more MTBF.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sorry sir, but 280 kg wt is not considered as heavy. Even the Litening Pod is 240 KG wt. Some how it is going to take a hardpoint. Now if for ground attack with the JF-17 one hardpoint is taken by the targeting pod, and two hard point with the tri armed pylon of light LGB or even quad armed LGB of 250 pound guided bomb and two drop tank, is more than enough for the COIN operation. What I am feeling is that PAF needs twin seater JF-17, so that the copilot could handle the targeting load, and pilot could focus on flying. There is no report of the terrorists armed with the sholder fired Manpads, so no other equipment is necessary.

Hi,

Thanks for a ' sane ' post about this issue. I did not understand what the big deal was----the terrs cannot shoot back with missiles---.

Just the range of the WND7 is less than the sniper---so what is the big deal---. Nothing.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

@Quwa @Bilal Khan 777 What is the problem with the WMD-7 targeting pod. Heard that it is based on the israeli Litering targeting Pod, and Israel helped Chinese in building that. So what is that which is not achievable with the WMD7 due to which Pakistan is looking for targetting pod else where.

WMD7 is not ready or in service yet. The demonstrated performance is less than desired. It is not based on lightning, otherwise it would already be sold. It is not being compared with Sniper. Better options are available, cheaper, more detection, qualified on various aircraft.

 

[SQ8]

I have been reminded by some "bozo" in the past that we "juniors" cannot comment on the smart *** one liners of the "seniors." So, I guess i reserve comment on how confidence can be "shattered" with one "click."

Please be reminded that the ONLY ones who are with any power to take action on objectionable speech here are those in blue or red. The rest of these "seniors" are based on how many posts they have and NOT the quality of their posts or any sense in them.

There are "senior" members here who spend their entire time posting lewd pictures of women and oogling at them.

There is no "seniority" or "respect" to be given for posting nonsense away all the time.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Please be reminded that the ONLY ones who are with any power to take action on objectionable speech here are those in blue or red. The rest of these "seniors" are based on how many posts they have and NOT the quality of their posts or any sense in them.

There are "senior" members here who spend their entire time posting lewd pictures of women and oogling at them.

There is no "seniority" or "respect" to be given for posting nonsense away all the time.

I thought members become senior for the Quality and Number of their Posts?????????

 

[knight11]

WMD7 is not ready or in service yet. The demonstrated performance is less than desired. It is not based on lightning, otherwise it would already be sold. It is not being compared with Sniper. Better options are available, cheaper, more detection, qualified on various aircraft.

Sir, that statement will contradict many things. In PDF many have claimed that JF-17 have taken active part in the war on the terror, and dropped guided LGP on the terrorist hideouts. Now either they are correct or you, but any way, I read somewhere, Israel helped China in developing WMD-7 which actually was the TOT of the Litering Pod-1 of Rafael. It is quite possible, that after US pressure, Israel might have stopped his support given to the 613 institute of AVIC, which have actually mentored various projects of Chinese, including this FILAT pod.

The pods, packed with electronics and sensors, are very popular with fighter pilots, mainly because they contain FLIR (video quality night vision infrared radar) and TV cameras that enable pilots flying at 6,200 meters (20,000 feet) to clearly make out what is going on down on the ground. The pods also contain laser designators for laser guided bombs and laser range finders that enable pilots to get coordinates for JDAM (GPS guided) bombs.

China is offering its locally made targeting pods for export. Two pods (WMD-7 and OC2), each from a different manufacturer, are for sale. Both appear to have similar capabilities (infrared targeting range of 20 kilometers and laser designator with a range of 15 kilometers, plus vidcams with zoom and all the hardware and software needed for Chinese smart bombs) as Western models.

In the late 1990s Chinese firms began working on targeting pods. This effort was apparently based on an early version of the LITENING pod the government had obtained. The first Chinese targeting pod, called the DC-1 soon appeared. The pod contained a daylight video camera and a thermal imager for night and bad weather as well as a laser designator. About the same time another Chinese targeting pod, the "Blue Sky" appeared. This one appeared to be based on the U.S. LANTRIN. Before that, aircraft had to be equipped with internal cameras and laser designators. The new pods appeared to be more robust and reliable than the older internal equipment.

About the same time China also began introducing locally made laser guided bomb; the LT-series. These were similar to the American Paveway and the Russian KAB-500L. These apparently did not perform very well but China kept at it and now a line of more reliable and quite inexpensive smart bomb.

The problem I can see is not only the resolution of the pod, or the IR sensor, but the algorithm required to detect the ground target and identify it automatically, which China lags as compared to the western or the US counterparts, and still have to master it.

 

[SQ8]

I thought members become senior for the Quality and Number of their Posts?????????

NO

Quality is reflected in Think tank, professionals or researchers. Number of posts is the "senior" and "Elite"

 

[Bratva]

Wmd-7 is used in jh-7, did u mis the picture? Chinese are working on several types of pods, wmd-7 and OC series being just two of them. The daddy of them all, the filat, had many children, whose offsprings are only now being shown. The family has entered its third generation and more children are expected. PAF didn't reject the wmd-7, otherwise theyd never show it with the jf-17 in the first place. On OC series, it started its journey on q5 as being solely a laser designator. Batch improvements continued and saw it gaining more functions but the wmd-7 had IR, laser, TV, auto tracking bundled from the beginning. China does use it on jh-7 and they have elaborate plans in place for up gradation, including longer range, lighter weight and more MTBF.

I have seen only one photo of WMD-7 on a static JH-7. With continuous leaks from chinese side, I have never ever seen WMD-7 flying with any aircraft. Mind you, when OC-5 can be seen with flying J-10, WMD-7 would have been captured by enthusiastic crowd somehow.

And think it this way, China continuously promoting JF-17 and has not inducted single JF into their AF ? Why because it is not fulfilling their mission requirement and is not required by them at the moment. More or less same case with WMD-7, PAF is not satisfied with it, doesnot want it for-themselves but continue to display it along JF-17 so any prospective but less tech savvy buyer wants it, He can have it.

 

[Viper0011.]

I thought members become senior for the Quality and Number of their Posts?????????

Where have you spend all your life ???? Here, at times, I even question how experienced our Think Tanks are, when they write about a subject. You get into politics, and it get even worst. Then, all education, common sense, logic, national interests and forum rules are obliterated. But yea, many seniors on here, may be "senior" because of their age they've spent on here. Not because of their multidimensional experience.

All F16s spares are available currently. The EDA aircraft from AMARC were already picked up some time and have joined.

Additionally, the PAF now keeps 5 years worth of major spares in her inventory. Something that has been exercised twice since 2002. So at any given time, the PAF now has the ability to continue to operate the F16's for the next 7-8 years without buying spares or if the sanctions got in place, which I don't see happening (the PAF will need to reduce flight hours by 20-25% to continue to operate for the next 6-8 years). But its nothing like how it was in the late 90's....

 

[Bratva]

Hi,

Thanks for a ' sane ' post about this issue. I did not understand what the big deal was----the terrs cannot shoot back with missiles---.

Just the range of the WND7 is less than the sniper---so what is the big deal---. Nothing.

The issue is Deputy chief of PAF statement about WMD-7 and complete absence of WMD-7 on JF-17. I mean Have you seen JF-17 flying with WMD-7?

 

[MastanKhan]

The issue is Deputy chief of PAF statement about WMD-7 and complete absence of WMD-7 on JF-17. I mean Have you seen JF-17 flying with WMD-7?

Hi,

We don't see them flying with anything but external fuel tanks. The thing is when you talk down one product that is displayed next to the aircraft----then inadvertently---you are playing down what is standing right next to that display---.

In a similar manner---when you want to get a superior equipment---then you never down play your less capable equipment---regardless of what happens---your worthless equipment is always the best equipment but you are seeking other venues to compliment your equipment.

I just simply can't understand their flawed game plan.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

NO

Quality is reflected in Think tank, professionals or researchers. Number of posts is the "senior" and "Elite"

So why not remove senior and elite titles altogether?
I am just a little curious whats the criteria for Quality?
After all its just a matter of perspective...

 

[Dazzler]

I have seen only one photo of WMD-7 on a static JH-7. With continuous leaks from chinese side, I have never ever seen WMD-7 flying with any aircraft. Mind you, when OC-5 can be seen with flying J-10, WMD-7 would have been captured by enthusiastic crowd somehow.

And think it this way, China continuously promoting JF-17 and has not inducted single JF into their AF ? Why because it is not fulfilling their mission requirement and is not required by them at the moment. More or less same case with WMD-7, PAF is not satisfied with it, doesnot want it for-themselves but continue to display it along JF-17 so any prospective but less tech savvy buyer wants it, He can have it.

 

[Manticore]

The EDA aircraft from AMARC were already picked up some time and have joined.

Sir, where does this take the f16 numbers in PAF to?

In the short term J10 is a bad decision (through it will end up here in the future anyway).

So J-10 induction in PAF is inevitable?

 

[Tripoli]

MIG-35 is the best solution. Strangely, no one is speaking for that. Had already pointed out various advantage. Here is again in short.

1. Excellent Dogfighter, short takeoff capability 4+ MRCA
2. Similarity of engine RD93/33
3. AESA available -- Zhuk RP-35 AESA, which will be the AESA radar of J-10 B, designated by Chinese with their own name.
4. Easily could be mated with the Chinese weapons.
5. Have IRST, HMDS, Digital cockpit,HOBS missile, IFR probe, Space of Internal ASPJ
6. Wide range of weaponary including cruise missile, Anti shipping, ARM and could fullfill Air superiority and multirole role.
7. Could take on IAF's Rafale, SU-30 MKI, and MIF-29K

@Bilal Khan 777 @Quwa @MastanKhan @Dazzler

Thanks for the great info but I was talking about the targeting pod.