Pakistan Navy P-3C Orion Thread

[Imran Khan]

‘Alternatives to PC3 Orion to be delivered soon’

Published: August 11, 2011





‘Alternatives to PC3 Orion to be delivered soon’ | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

again we are going wrong direction usa will never give us for help but with there terms .

 

[Arsalan]

again we are going wrong direction usa will never give us for help but with there terms .

totally agreed.
however sir as you suggested that there seem no very capable alternative so i thing if we can get them for free or real cheap, it will be a good option to continue with these until and unless we can get our hands onto a reliable alternative.
i personally think that Y-8X is also quite capable. however, also note that there is no major ASW aircraft project in China running at moment!

 

[araz]

totally agreed.
however sir as you suggested that there seem no very capable alternative so i thing if we can get them for free or real cheap, it will be a good option to continue with these until and unless we can get our hands onto a reliable alternative.
i personally think that Y-8X is also quite capable. however, also note that there is no major ASW aircraft project in China running at moment!

Bhai Nothing personal and not directly related to your post but adding to it!!!!
Changing a platform overnight is not an easy task. PN is cash strapped and in dire need of hardware. Now if some one is delusional that we will swap over to a new platform just because of a hiccup in the relations, especially when we have no suitable alternative that gives us the next generation leap, then we should all be concentrating on educating our selves. However, what we should be actively doing is involving our selves in research with a worthy partner to develop the next generation capability

 

[Arsalan]

Bhai Nothing personal and not directly related to your post but adding to it!!!!
Changing a platform overnight is not an easy task. PN is cash strapped and in dire need of hardware. Now if some one is delusional that we will swap over to a new platform just because of a hiccup in the relations, especially when we have no suitable alternative that gives us the next generation leap, then we should all be concentrating on educating our selves. However, what we should be actively doing is involving our selves in research with a worthy partner to develop the next generation capability

i would never take any information based post as personal sir, thanks for your concern!
i totally agree that we cannot change overnight.
what i and i suppose Imran sb have been saying is that if PN feels that it is OK with what they have in hand then they should wait for as long as a better ASW aircraft is available from a reliable source. if they think they want more 2 or 3 more it have to be P-3C as inducting the current alternative ie Y-8 in such small numbers wont be possible.
lately we have seen soe progress made by PN, we have invested in F-22p frigates, talks are on for new subs and heavier frigates, new missile boats are being constructed, new STUS have been inducted. i totally agree that PN with its limited budget cannot go for bid buys!
however, there is a need that they take there steps wisely keeping in view the Pak-US relation and the history of US betraying us. i admit that the PN think tanks are wiser then me at least and will take steps that they think as good for future of PN and Pakistan! i agree that any US eqipment will come with a long list of DOs and DONTs
regards!

 

[niaz]

Despite the fact that everyone is fully aware that we are extremely short of funds, I fail to understand the knee jerk reaction of some members as soon as supplies from USA are mentioned. If we have sufficient number, some can be kept flying thru cannibalization in spite of possible sanction scenario. Certainly among the Western equipment, PC-3C is as of today one of best MR platforms around. So keep it coming.

Also don’t be so sure of the Chinese either. If TTP and Islamists continue to keep on stirring trouble in the Sinkiang province, Chinese closing the door on Pakistan cannot be ruled out. It is realpolitik; countries remain friends only as long it is in the interest of both.

 

[IceCold]

Also don’t be so sure of the Chinese either. If TTP and Islamists continue to keep on stirring trouble in the Sinkiang province, Chinese closing the door on Pakistan cannot be ruled out. It is realpolitik; countries remain friends only as long it is in the interest of both.

The bold part very beautifully said sir. We tend to forget this too often that there are no permanent friends just permanent interests and this higher then mountain and deeper then ocean thingy could very well come down crashing. We need to keep all options open and not tend to repeat the same mistake we committed before of putting all the eggs in one basket. Back then it was the US and now we are moving in the same direction with China.

 

[DV RULES]

The bold part very beautifully said sir. We tend to forget this too often that there are no permanent friends just permanent interests and this higher then mountain and deeper then ocean thingy could very well come down crashing. We need to keep all options open and not tend to repeat the same mistake we committed before of putting all the eggs in one basket. Back then it was the US and now we are moving in the same direction with China.

This is called Typical rough mentality without future plannings where there is no word exists in Pakistan called policy and planning.

 

[Arsalan]

Despite the fact that everyone is fully aware that we are extremely short of funds, I fail to understand the knee jerk reaction of some members as soon as supplies from USA are mentioned. If we have sufficient number, some can be kept flying thru cannibalization in spite of possible sanction scenario. Certainly among the Western equipment, PC-3C is as of today one of best MR platforms around. So keep it coming.

Also don’t be so sure of the Chinese either. If TTP and Islamists continue to keep on stirring trouble in the Sinkiang province, Chinese closing the door on Pakistan cannot be ruled out. It is realpolitik; countries remain friends only as long it is in the interest of both.

The bold part very beautifully said sir. We tend to forget this too often that there are no permanent friends just permanent interests and this higher then mountain and deeper then ocean thingy could very well come down crashing. We need to keep all options open and not tend to repeat the same mistake we committed before of putting all the eggs in one basket. Back then it was the US and now we are moving in the same direction with China.

true. but the solution to this is to develop our own systems. going for more US systems that have been a disastor for us in past is not a good option.
as long as we are on good terms with China and we have not high tech equipment of our own, China is a far more reliable supplier.

moreover, our relation with China is a long term strategic one. this wont be easily hampered by some terrorists. it is not like US intentions of defeating Russia in Afghanistan or going to flaten Afghanistan. in both these cases, it was obvious that US do not belongs here and will eventually leave once its goals are achieved. for China, we will always be neighbors.

sir, with due respect, keeping our previous experiences with US in mind, i will go to the extent that this might even be a bait. they keep on offering us things in sugar coated words so hat we dont go for other supplier and then when time comes, they always betray us!!!

i will again say that i am not killing the option for going for more P-3C. if these are coming at a reasonable price, it is good enough for present unless we can get hands onto some thing better!

 

[ziaulislam]

well when thinks get out of control, politically,economically or on security we all know what happens..the militery takes over to put things in order..so i guess military take over will happen if things come to that.
pak-us relationship is different..we didnt made the realtionship worsed, they were made worse unilaterlly by US..today pak army is simply doing not enough because it thinks that doing enough would hurt its long term planning..as it already knows that us will back up once again..in other words if US would have been sincere towards pakistan..there would have been much more sincerity on this side
such issues dont exist with china..

 

[unicorn]

 

[araz]

true. but the solution to this is to develop our own systems. going for more US systems that have been a disastor for us in past is not a good option.
as long as we are on good terms with China and we have not high tech equipment of our own, China is a far more reliable supplier.

moreover, our relation with China is a long term strategic one. this wont be easily hampered by some terrorists. it is not like US intentions of defeating Russia in Afghanistan or going to flaten Afghanistan. in both these cases, it was obvious that US do not belongs here and will eventually leave once its goals are achieved. for China, we will always be neighbors.

sir, with due respect, keeping our previous experiences with US in mind, i will go to the extent that this might even be a bait. they keep on offering us things in sugar coated words so hat we dont go for other supplier and then when time comes, they always betray us!!!

i will again say that i am not killing the option for going for more P-3C. if these are coming at a reasonable price, it is good enough for present unless we can get hands onto some thing better!

The planning for this neds to be both short tewrm and long term. in the short term our options are limited. in the longer term,the thing that we could possibly do, if we have the froesight, is to involve in a next generation platform research with a couple of partners( China And turkey come to mind) who have need for such a platform. I think this would be a win win situation for all parties concerned.The problem is the lack of funds and also to some extent the foresight. We have traditionally seen the navy being neglected again and again and it is this neglect which has led it to its current state. The factors involved appear not only to be financial but internal wrangling and perhaps vested interests. However, we will also need to look at a paltform to protect these ASW platforms, which brings us into another round of debate which perhaps is beyong the realms and scpe of this debate. At the present time however, we need to observe this space to see how the situation with US pans out. Theyt have ample units in storage to replace the platforms lost, but will they do so and at what terms remains to be seen.
Araz

 

[araz]

well when thinks get out of control, politically,economically or on security we all know what happens..the militery takes over to put things in order..so i guess military take over will happen if things come to that.
pak-us relationship is different..we didnt made the realtionship worsed, they were made worse unilaterlly by US..today pak army is simply doing not enough because it thinks that doing enough would hurt its long term planning..as it already knows that us will back up once again..in other words if US would have been sincere towards pakistan..there would have been much more sincerity on this side
such issues dont exist with china..

At the expense of digressing, this is the worst solution possible, and an escape for the culprit politicians. The army would be playing into the hands of these culprits by taking this route. Let them go and face the masses with their record and gain a vote again if they dare!!
Araz

 

[fatman17]

At the expense of digressing, this is the worst solution possible, and an escape for the culprit politicians. The army would be playing into the hands of these culprits by taking this route. Let them go and face the masses with their record and gain a vote again if they dare!!
Araz

Sir that is exactly what they want!

 

[Rank]

this military never learn anything.. again and again going in same way! ....

 

[Skywalker]

Just because they are being run by three cowards at the top, The Air Chief The Naval Chief and last but not the least the biggest coward of all The Army Chief. every now n then there are skirmishes at the border and loosing valuable lives of our own brothers and he only fire bullets in the air, the next bullet should be fired at his own arse.

Oh I miss those glory days whn people were thinking thousand times before crossing our border. This army has become a laughing stalk for the rest of the world. Sorry guys just couldnt hide my frustration.

this military never learn anything.. again and again going in same way! ....