`PAKISTAN NAVY CONSIDERS TURKISH NAVAL COMPANIES AT PAR WITH ANY COMPANY WITHIN THE EUROPEAN DEFENSE INDUSTRY

[Sidacca]

Economy? Turkey is the 11th largest economy in the world. They aren't trying to do it but they are already and have achieved that years ago. They have 700+ projects running currently at the same time

Economies of scale what he is talking about not Turkey’s economy

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Economies of scale what he is talking about not Turkey’s economy

The Turkish folks would rather eat grass, but develop their military industrial base....

 

[Zarvan]

I wouldn't discount the possibility of the PN seeking an even bigger platform to complement the Sea Sultan and Sea Eagle.

IMO, there's a benefit in having a few aircraft as large as the P-8I, i.e., with a proper internal bay for torpedoes and more hardpoints for AShMs. However, a project of that scope - likely involving the A320 - is well beyond the PN's fiscal capacity to pull off alone. OTOH, if Turkey is interested in a joint project, then perhaps?

If that scenario were to happen, I think it'd be an add-on to the 10 Sea Sultan and 4 Sea Eagles.

Can you tell from which part you have reached this conclusion that Pakistan could be looking for something other then Sea Sultan ? Because I am curious now I have read that statement and I completely missed what you and @SQ8 is understanding from it.

 

[snne]

I wouldn't discount the possibility of the PN seeking an even bigger platform to complement the Sea Sultan and Sea Eagle.

IMO, there's a benefit in having a few aircraft as large as the P-8I, i.e., with a proper internal bay for torpedoes and more hardpoints for AShMs. However, a project of that scope - likely involving the A320 - is well beyond the PN's fiscal capacity to pull off alone. OTOH, if Turkey is interested in a joint project, then perhaps?

If that scenario were to happen, I think it'd be an add-on to the 10 Sea Sultan and 4 Sea Eagles.

The commander of the Turkish Naval Aviation Command had previously defined the need for a New Generation Long Range MPA.

If interested, you can translate and read this thread on the matter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1466005638987796482

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Can you tell from which part you have reached this conclusion that Pakistan could be looking for something other then Sea Sultan ? Because I am curious now I have read that statement and I completely missed what you and @SQ8 is understanding from it.

In the interview you posted, Vice Admiral Imran Ahmed mentioned that the PN is getting "Jet LRMPAs," but towards the end said that the PN would be interested in developing an MPA solution with Turkey. It seems the PN is still continuing with the Sea Sultan. So, assuming that the Sea Sultan is coming, the only LRMPA gap in the PN is the large type like P-3, P-8, and P-1. Moreover, it seems Turkey itself wants a large LRMPA like P-8, so I'm just putting 2+2 together; it sounds like the PN wants to work on a large LRMPA with Turkey.

 

[Zarvan]

In the interview you posted, Vice Admiral Imran Ahmed mentioned that the PN is getting "Jet LRMPAs," but towards the end said that the PN would be interested in developing an MPA solution with Turkey. It seems the PN is still continuing with the Sea Sultan. So, assuming that the Sea Sultan is coming, the only LRMPA gap in the PN is the large type like P-3, P-8, and P-1. Moreover, it seems Turkey itself wants a large LRMPA like P-8, so I'm just putting 2+2 together; it sounds like the PN wants to work on a large LRMPA with Turkey.

I missed that part. I think we could go for Sea Sultan in fact 10 of them but we may opt for four to 6 of those also which Turkey will get for itself. I mean same kind.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I missed that part. I think we could go for Sea Sultan in fact 10 of them but we may opt for four to 6 of those also which Turkey will get for itself. I mean same kind.

Yep.

In fact, this could make sense because the PN basically described the Sea Sultan as a multi-mission aircraft. It won't use the Sea Sultan strictly for ASW or AShW, but also AEW and ISTAR.

Moreover, I don't think the Sea Sultan would be as hard-hitting in ASW or AShW as the P-8. It lacks the size to match the P-8's payload options. So, once the PN retires the P-3Cs, it will actually lose a bit of capability, even after inducting the 10 Sea Sultans.

So, as you said, we could see 4-6 of a larger LRMPA (e.g., based on A320), especially if Turkey opts to design and develop one for its own requirements. @JamD @kursed

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Yep.

In fact, this could make sense because the PN basically described the Sea Sultan as a multi-mission aircraft. It won't use the Sea Sultan strictly for ASW or AShW, but also AEW and ISTAR.

Moreover, I don't think the Sea Sultan would be as hard-hitting in ASW or AShW as the P-8. It lacks the size to match the P-8's payload options. So, once the PN retires the P-3Cs, it will actually lose a bit of capability, even after inducting the 10 Sea Sultans.

So, as you said, we could see 4-6 of a larger LRMPA (e.g., based on A320), especially if Turkey opts to design and develop one for its own requirements. @JamD @kursed

May be we will work jointly if Turkey offers such proposal.
He has said that

"if the Turkish aeronautical setup has any such proposal to develop a joint ASW/ Surveillance aircraft, the PN would certainly consider it.”

 

[snne]

So, as you said, we could see 4-6 of a larger LRMPA (e.g., based on A320), especially if Turkey opts to design and develop one for its own requirements.

In that sense, Turkey's Hava-SOJ project should be carefully observed. The program had ran into difficulties 1-2 years ago because the Canadian government embargoed the technical suüport from Bombardier on modification and integration of mission systems, but around the end of 2021 I remember reading news that stated Turkey had found the technical support from within the country, but I don't remember or know who is going to provide that capability. The deliveries had already slipped to 2027 because of that, but if Turkey manages to pull it off, it'll be an immense gain as such it'll allow Turkey to be more confident and to untertake such an MPA aircraft as you said; but that boost in confidence can also verge into becoming an aerial test-bed for the TF-X/MMU's electronics.

 

[Bossman]

I wouldn't discount the possibility of the PN seeking an even bigger platform to complement the Sea Sultan and Sea Eagle.

IMO, there's a benefit in having a few aircraft as large as the P-8I, i.e., with a proper internal bay for torpedoes and more hardpoints for AShMs. However, a project of that scope - likely involving the A320 - is well beyond the PN's fiscal capacity to pull off alone. OTOH, if Turkey is interested in a joint project, then perhaps?

If that scenario were to happen, I think it'd be an add-on to the 10 Sea Sultan and 4 Sea Eagles.

Any thing bigger than the Sea Sultan will be the biggest MPA is the world other than the TU141. I don’t think that will fit into PN’s needs unless it wants to patrol towards Sri Lanka or even into Bay of Bengal, which I doubt.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) could the midget sub be our own project?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2020/04/15/mystery-submarine-in-service-with-pakistani-navy-seals/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjTi6SkpYz2AhVPXBoKHTGTDBcQFnoECD8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0I3UnDPbpM98TSspIGmYyQ

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Any thing bigger than the Sea Sultan will be the biggest MPA is the world other than the TU141. I don’t think that will fit into PN’s needs unless it wants to patrol towards Sri Lanka or even into Bay of Bengal, which I doubt.

The Sea Sultan is a mid-sized LRMPA as the Embraer Lineage 1000E has an MTOW of 54,500 kg.

The Kawasaki P-1 has a MTOW of 79,700 kg

The Boeing P-8 has a MTOW of 85,250 kg

So, anything bigger than the Sea Sultan -- e.g., using a Boeing 737 or A320 as the basis -- would, at most, make it as large as the Boeing P-8. But the issue isn't just range, but also endurance, payload, and crew comfort (for long-haul missions).

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) could the midget sub be our own project?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2020/04/15/mystery-submarine-in-service-with-pakistani-navy-seals/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjTi6SkpYz2AhVPXBoKHTGTDBcQFnoECD8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0I3UnDPbpM98TSspIGmYyQ

The 'midget sub' and 'shallow water attack sub' (SWATS) are 2 different projects. It seems we're trying to design and build our own 'midget subs' (<150 tons), but the SWATS is a bigger and more complex project (500-700 tons).

 

[Bossman]

The Sea Sultan is a mid-sized LRMPA as the Embraer Lineage 1000E has an MTOW of 54,500 kg.

The Kawasaki P-1 has a MTOW of 79,700 kg

The Boeing P-8 has a MTOW of 85,250 kg

So, anything bigger than the Sea Sultan -- e.g., using a Boeing 737 or A320 as the basis -- would, at most, make it as large as the Boeing P-8. But the issue isn't just range, but also endurance, payload, and crew comfort (for long-haul missions).


The 'midget sub' and 'shallow water attack sub' (SWATS) are 2 different projects. It seems we're trying to design and build our own 'midget subs' (<150 tons), but the SWATS is a bigger and more complex project (500-700 tons).

Sea Sultan has similar range as the P8. Please keep in mind Pakistan’s coast line and it’s threat profile. Suggesting anything bigger than the Sea Sultan is pure speculation similar to the one above that the program is having hiccups.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Sea Sultan has similar range as the P8. Please keep in mind Pakistan coast line and threat profile. Suggesting anything bigger than the Sea Sultan is pure speculation.

On the Pakistan Navy forum, we will things into existence.

 

[aziqbal]

I would like to know what kind of tonnage the Jinnah Class will be and the VLS count

5,000 tons+ with 48 cells would be great

if we add 4 x Ada Class with 16 x VLS each thats = 64 Cells

32 x VLS for 4 x Type 054A/P = 128 Cells

48 x 4 x Jinnah Class = 192 Cells

Total VLS count = 384 Cells

thats a very good launch capability within a decade

also the SSK fleet must ensure it can launch nuclear armed Babur