Pakistan Navy---A Day Late & A Dollar Short:---

[MastanKhan]

So in your opinion JH7 and J16 are DEEP STRIKE fighters, boy you need to get your facts straight, a submarine is a far far deadlier weapons with a much much longer range and an element of SURPRISE on its side, JH7 is 60s technology and we dont have aircraft carriers, what good is a plane with 150 KM range if u have seen the map ?


We have gone on the offensive before (1965) and we will go on the offensive again and again. Being defensive does not mean we restrict yourself to our coastal waters only. Best defense is in offence. We will hit India wherever we can, anywhere in the world and submarines are offensive weapons. My life's greatest moment will be when I see an Indian aircraft carrier broken into two pieces as a result from anti-ship missile.

Hi,

My apologies---welcome to the forum---please introduce yourself kindly---.

If you did not know both the F15 and F 16 are the late 60's early 70's technology---.

The SR71---and its engines---late 50's early technology---.

The JH7 is 80's technology aircraft---a JH7B would be a modern refurbished aircraft or a newly built---and what about 150 KM range---what aircraft are you talking about.

As I stated in another post addressed to you---. It is easier to say a 2 liner nay or a yeah----why don't you write something of your own---in this regard---.

I agree with the second part of your post---but you have missed out on Pak air force inventory---it has become non offensive in nature---.

 

[Fireurimagination]

We have gone on the offensive before (1965) and we will go on the offensive again and again. Being defensive does not mean we restrict yourself to our coastal waters only. Best defense is in offence. We will hit India wherever we can, anywhere in the world and submarines are offensive weapons. My life's greatest moment will be when I see an Indian aircraft carrier broken into two pieces as a result from anti-ship missile.

What can I say, one that you are optimistic for sure True submarines can be used for offensive purposes discretely and may be this is a reason PN prefers them. 50 years have passed since '65, also don't forget the '71 Karachi attack. IN is aiming for becoming a true blue water navy and in time they will have 3-4 Aircraft carriers and a mini-airforce of their own. It would be a big feat if PN can avoid a blockade in a long drawn war. Navy is the biggest chink in your armour and expect the enemy to exploit it fully.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Those aircraft can do no such thing. As it stands today, you have to fight through roughly 10 squadrons of fighter jets if you are to make it anywhere remotely close to Mumbai, not counting both the IN's and IAF's A2/AD zones. So we are already spread out.

Anyway, I hear the JF-17s have outstanding range, more than the Su-30MKI, so why do you need similar aircraft with similar range?



Incorrect. What you are talking about is creating multiple fronts so the enemy forces thin out. Pakistan is incapable of creating multiple fronts anymore.

However, you want the enemy forces in a battlefield to concentrate so you can bomb the hell out of them.



Contradictory statement. We have spread out our forces even without the threat of a heavy fighter in PAF's arsenal.

Good analysis

What can I say, one that you are optimistic for sure True submarines can be used for offensive purposes discretely and may be this is a reason PN prefers them. 50 years have passed since '65, also don't forget the '71 Karachi attack. IN is aiming for becoming a true blue water navy and in time they will have 3-4 Aircraft carriers and a mini-airforce of their own. It would be a big feat if PN can avoid a blockade in a long drawn war. Navy is the biggest chink in your armour and expect the enemy to exploit it fully.

That day isnt coming soon, not in mine and your life span at least, if at all. The status of IN will never be any better than the status of Indian Army on Chinese border. IN will remain a tier 2 navy in front of Chinese and Pakistani navie's nexus

Hi,

My apologies---welcome to the forum---please introduce yourself kindly---.

If you did not know both the F15 and F 16 are the late 60's early 70's technology---.

The SR71---and its engines---late 50's early technology---.

The JH7 is 80's technology aircraft---a JH7B would be a modern refurbished aircraft or a newly built---and what about 150 KM range---what aircraft are you talking about.

As I stated in another post addressed to you---. It is easier to say a 2 liner nay or a yeah----why don't you write something of your own---in this regard---.

I agree with the second part of your post---but you have missed out on Pak air force inventory---it has become non offensive in nature---.

What are you trying to say by f 16 and f 16 and SR 71 are old technologies ? of course these are old technologies, though still reliable but they have no role in distant future wars. when a new plane is inducted it is inducted for 30-40 years. JH7 air frame was designed keeping in view F111 frame (1950s technology). Upgradation helps to some extent but it cannot compensate for desiging shortcomings. Rest assured brother it is 50s technology air frame, i will never recommend it for 21st century warfare. Even F 16s and F15s are fast approaching absolence, we have milked our F 16s since 34 years now. They are sturdy robust machines but times have moved on. I would have been impressed had you talked of, though hypothetically, a naval variant of J31.

 

[Fireurimagination]

That day isnt coming soon, not in mine and your life span at least, if at all. The status of IN will never be any better than the status of Indian Army on Chinese border. IN will remain a tier 2 navy in front of Chinese and Pakistani navie's nexus

Oh so you count Chinese Navy as your own then can I count US Navy as ours?

 

[Aasimkhan]

What can I say, one that you are optimistic for sure True submarines can be used for offensive purposes discretely and may be this is a reason PN prefers them. 50 years have passed since '65, also don't forget the '71 Karachi attack. IN is aiming for becoming a true blue water navy and in time they will have 3-4 Aircraft carriers and a mini-airforce of their own. It would be a big feat if PN can avoid a blockade in a long drawn war. Navy is the biggest chink in your armour and expect the enemy to exploit it fully.

days of aircraft carriers are over, they cant outrun missiles, they cant hide from satellites, they are sitting ducks, India may integrate as a matter of ego but its practical manifestation we will never see. Pakistan is not Nepal or Bhutan, Bangladesh or Maldives. If you remember as back as 1965 (when precision strikes were un imagineable) Indian aircraft carrier was kept hidden on India's Eastern Coast and never brought to the war theatre. Reason was (and still is) India cannot afford a sunken aircraft carrier. Not militarily, not economically and, least of all, politically.

Oh so you count Chinese Navy as your own then can I count US Navy as ours?

Of course we are aware of US-Israeli-Indian Nexus, you think its a secret anymore?

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

I don't feel the need to address the buffoonery that is some people here. The example of 313 has many lessons, from the love of the prophet to true faith (kaamil Emaan) till Jibrael Ameen came with the Naushad for the win for those pious and infallible true believers. Our ranks remain fallible, and continue to focus on the rituals and not faith.

Who is in Khaith or Khalyan, they know themselves.

Some people hide effectively calling themselves car sales men or other benign titles, so that people don't realize what they are really trying to do here, sometimes successfully. Innocent be aware.

.45 is Used in USA as a side arm, not Pakistan. Anyone who could call Pasha or A. Kayani anything did that how? in person? over the phone? What desktop chivalry is this? pathetic state of self glorification from some sad individual

Any attempts to discuss PN Submarine program is only that someone makes a mistake to divulge highly classified information in emotion, serving the purpose of some people on this forum. Please be aware.

For anyone willing to learn, all or any data about the PN submarine program, acquisition or refurbishment of existing French platforms is highly deceptive by its nature.

To confirm the point of some observers, Submarines are indeed the most potent offensive platforms, as SLOC (Sea Lines of Communication) are the main jugular. They are also true second strike capability, or allow off theatre engagement/deterrence.

Enough said.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Oh so you count Chinese Navy as your own then can I count US Navy as ours?

India has put its all eggs in American basket (rightly or wrongly) everybody knows it. No wonder you are getting cold shoulders from Russia. Nuclear cooperation with USA is a gift from Uncle Sam, my advice is dont count on Uncle Sam, they really know how to betray a friend.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Oh so you count Chinese Navy as your own then can I count US Navy as ours?

That is quite a likely scenario.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Oh so you count Chinese Navy as your own then can I count US Navy as ours?

Dont count on US Navy, they will not be allowed to cross South China Sea to come towards Indian Ocean, days of US Naval Supremacy are numbered.

 

[Fireurimagination]

days of aircraft carriers are over, they cant outrun missiles, they cant hide from satellites, they are sitting ducks, India may integrate as a matter of ego but its practical manifestation we will never see. Pakistan is not Nepal or Bhutan, Bangladesh or Maldives. If you remember as back as 1965 (when precision strikes were un imagineable) Indian aircraft carrier was kept hidden on India's Eastern Coast and never brought to the war theatre. Reason was (and still is) India cannot afford a sunken aircraft carrier. Not militarily, not economically and, least of all, politically.

Same aircraft carrier ensured a complete blockage of Karachi in '71, forget about sinking a carrier in a battle group you won't be able to come anywhere near the striking distance, your adversary will not exactly sail it to your coast

That is quite a likely scenario.

Nopes, nobody is fighting our war for us, nor China nor US, at most only behind the curtains help will be provided

Dont count on US Navy, they will not be allowed to cross South China Sea to come towards Indian Ocean, days of US Naval Supremacy are numbered.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Hi,

Pakistan's military conglomerate has again been caught short---the surfacing of the indian sub 40 nautical miles away just when the chinese naval ship was visiting pakistan---and the inauguration of CPEC route at Gwadar just showed the pak navy was woefully ill-equipped.

A few years ago when the rumors surfaced about pak military signing a 5 billion dollars deal for 8 chinese subs and supply time of 10 years from the time of signing---and delivery of the last submarine---.

I had written that---that deal was totally ill prepared and ill conceived---. I had stated that the target should have been 5 years project---number of submarine cut in half---and the other half split between surface ships and an aircraft of the type of JH7B---.

So---that all the three facets are covered at the same time in parallel---by three different groups---which has three times the force multiplier effect---.

So rather than just having 4 submarines in 5 years----you would also have 3-4 frigates of the 5000 + tonnage capacity plus at least 4 sqdrns of heavies---be it the JH7B---or the J16's----and some smaller vessels in the 500---1500 tonnage---.

After the 5 years---another deal of 5 billion signed for more subs and ships if needed.

The casual and callous attitude of the pak military showed that it did not foresee or visualize such an incident happening so close to its waters---and that shows a very poor understanding of what is at stake in the arena---at Gwadar---the arabian sea---the gulf---.

Basically---pak military has been caught with its pants down one more time.

Project Pinnacle does not exist

 

[Aasimkhan]

Same aircraft carrier ensured a complete blockage of Karachi in '71, forget about sinking a carrier in a battle group you won't be able to come anywhere near the striking distance, your adversary will not exactly sail it to your coast



Nopes, nobody is fighting our war for us, nor China nor US, at most only behind the curtains help will be provided

You are missing the point, in 1971 the actual theatre of war was East Pakistan and due to geographical limitation PN was unable to circle Cape Comorin and come to help of stranded troops and people of East Pakistan. Times have changed, we have no such liability towards East now, Karachi and Gawadar will be defended at all cost, I hope you know your aircraft carrier (so called battle group) is without aircover these days, waiting for Tejas which cant take off with combat load as per your own Naval Chief.

Same aircraft carrier ensured a complete blockage of Karachi in '71, forget about sinking a carrier in a battle group you won't be able to come anywhere near the striking distance, your adversary will not exactly sail it to your coast



Nopes, nobody is fighting our war for us, nor China nor US, at most only behind the curtains help will be provided

and we know very well who all are fighting your war, some are hidden and others not so hidden. The only war you have tried to fight so far was in Sri-Lanka (your adventure) from where you ran with your tail between your legs

 

[Fireurimagination]

You are missing the point, in 1971 the actual theatre of war was East Pakistan and due to geographical limitation PN was unable to circle Cape Comorin and come to help of stranded troops and people of East Pakistan. Times have changed, we have no such liability towards East now, Karachi and Gawadar will be defended at all cost, I hope you know your aircraft carrier (so called battle group) is without aircover these days, waiting for Tejas which cant take off with combat load as per your own Naval Chief.

Was Karachi in East Pakistan?? And that was in '71 in 2016 IN is planning to be a true blue water navy whereas PN is struggling and over the years PN growth can be called modest at best. Yes Navy has rejected the heavy Tejas and will go for Naval-MMRCA and most probably select N-Rafael or can even be N-F35. Does Pakistan navy even has an air-arm?

Well I hope you don't claim to know more than your Navy Admirals, have a look at what they have to say:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1217390

 

[Aasimkhan]

You are missing the point, in 1971 the actual theatre of war was East Pakistan and due to geographical limitation PN was unable to circle Cape Comorin and come to help of stranded troops and people of East Pakistan. Times have changed, we have no such liability towards East now, Karachi and Gawadar will be defended at all cost, I hope you know your aircraft carrier (so called battle group) is without aircover these days, waiting for Tejas which cant take off with combat load as per your own Naval Chief.


and we know very well who all are fighting your war, some are hidden and others not so hidden. The only war you have tried to fight so far was in Sri-Lanka (your adventure) from where you ran with your tail between your legs

Afghanistan being your new FRONTMAN

Was Karachi in East Pakistan?? And that was in '71 in 2016 IN is planning to be a true blue water navy whereas PN is struggling and over the years PN growth can be called modest at best. Yes Navy has rejected the heavy Tejas and will go for Naval-MMRCA and most probably select N-Rafael or can even be N-F35. Does Pakistan navy even has an air-arm?

Well I hope you don't claim to know more than your Navy Admirals, have a look at what they have to say:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1217390

MMRCA is another 33 years away like Tajas? What will happen to your "BATTLE GROUP" and your tru-blu-water navy?

 

[Fireurimagination]

and we know very well who all are fighting your war, some are hidden and others not so hidden. The only war you have tried to fight so far was in Sri-Lanka (your adventure) from where you ran with your tail between your legs

Are we discussing IA or PN here?. I can go on about 'our' wars but that will take the thread off-topic