Pakistan Navy---A Day Late & A Dollar Short:---

[SQ8]

I read his Post twice and i realize there is NOTHING RATIONAL to reply too .. have you even read what he Post ? i doubt ...



Does it matter if his D is bigger than mine ? what matter's here that if you posting something than it must based on Facts and Figures until a Senior member like him avoid it ... I don't have any knowledge on Defense section because that is not what i am Studying for .. if i was i would have replied to him in more Professional way, but i keep things as its my Opinion and not Cry out loud about how Awesome i get after selling some Toyota's in some Small town of US of A ..

now as for your PN comment , i will leave that on Professional as i have no knowledge about the Internal Lobbying which happen everywhere and Corruption which also happens Almost everywhere .. @Oscar must have something informative for you here ..

before you get into this Argument have you even ask Mr MK khan if he wants to be called a Pakistani ? LOL go and try to Ask him , or i recommend you to read his Comments how he refer me and You as " You Pakistani's " .. what i am assuming that this fellow is American and if a person from a Different country who did not even tight Screws in Armed forces and Criticizing + Insulting the Forces based on his Imaginary Rants with 0.00% facts ( as he never Present one ) .. i do have to reply , and i do have the right to ask him this Question that " Who on give you right to Insult our National Hero's And Armed forces blaming them for the ill and corruption while you sit in US and type this load of Crap ..

I do have my Freedom of expression here as well

Better not to waste time trying to oppose those with ZERO actual knowledge OR Experience and their supporters who else seem to have neither. Let them express their opinion and pat each other in the back because at the end their opinion matters as little as a fart in the wind.

The opinions that do matter here are picked up and even talked about. Serving professionals do many a times take a peek at PDF and have their cackles at ideas like these, but are also appreciative of good analysis.
Some marketing ideas for the JF also went from here unbeknownst to those that put them out here.

 

[deckingraj]

I do have my Freedom of expression here as well

We all have that...however please consider if all of us start doing it then people like you and me who are not professionals and thus are not appropriate to reply would find it very hard to learn...i mean that is one of the prime reason to he here unless and until one is a troll, no??

 

[YeBeWarned]

Hi,

Thank you for your input---. It is a sad day for a nation when its young and strong don't have a vision or a thinking of their own

Tom Clancy was an insurance sales man---" The Hunt For Red October "was the best seller in 1984----. It is the book that made russian submarine fleet stand ' naked ' & impotent in front of the world---.

Knowledge is available to ONLY THOSE WHO SEEK IT---.

You have only been on this board for 2 1/2 months---I have been writing here for 11 years now----and not a SINGLE strategic issue that I have written about---I have not been proven wrong---. And how I wish that I was---.

Many a superstars have come and gone eating dust---. You know why----because time will tell the truth---and I will be the first one to apologize and accept my mistake.

Give me one historical reference of a major war or a major conflict where one side was busy making battle shields and forgot to make the swords but still won the war---.

You know Mr Mastan Sahab, your Post make me Laugh and piss off at the same time ..
the bigger question is if our nation is so doomed by its forces than why are you so upset about ? its not your country is it ? you are living in US and probably are Citizen of America, you may even bleed red white and blue .. so why don't you let us Bleed Green and White in Peace ??

can't argue with the Quote ..

I have been following your posts and including the discussions you have had with some of the Senior members here, and as you claimed that i am new here so i am not supposed to be biased , so Oscar is not my Phuppi ka larka , nor Bilal khan is my distant cousin and neither you are my eternal Enemy .. so i never saw your post based on anything Factual or Proved Documents and if you ever post some to back your claims please Do Tag this Newbie so that i can learn something new i am always up for it ...

Bilal Khan as give you the example of Battle of Badr , now i won't compare the Army of Pakistan to those Blessed 313 people who are not just Poorly equipped but they don't even have a Proper Strategy to Fight .. but i really wonder if our Prophet on the battle ground or while sitting in his tent undermine the motivation of his troops by calling them Corrupt and Former pagan's .. but you seems to be Disturb because you are far and have nothing to do most probably , and by sitting in some 80+ oldie's gang who share their weird stories after 2 shots of red wine you take their words to be Gospel Truth .. I can't really help that ..

 

[MastanKhan]

I read his Post twice and i realize there is NOTHING RATIONAL to reply too .. have you even read what he Post ? i doubt ...



Does it matter if his D is bigger than mine ? what matter's here that if you posting something than it must based on Facts and Figures until a Senior member like him avoid it ... I don't have any knowledge on Defense section because that is not what i am Studying for .. if i was i would have replied to him in more Professional way, but i keep things as its my Opinion and not Cry out loud about how Awesome i get after selling some Toyota's in some Small town of US of A ..

now as for your PN comment , i will leave that on Professional as i have no knowledge about the Internal Lobbying which happen everywhere and Corruption which also happens Almost everywhere .. @Oscar must have something informative for you here ..

before you get into this Argument have you even ask Mr MK khan if he wants to be called a Pakistani ? LOL go and try to Ask him , or i recommend you to read his Comments how he refer me and You as " You Pakistani's " .. what i am assuming that this fellow is American and if a person from a Different country who did not even tight Screws in Armed forces and Criticizing + Insulting the Forces based on his Imaginary Rants with 0.00% facts ( as he never Present one ) .. i do have to reply , and i do have the right to ask him this Question that " Who on give you right to Insult our National Hero's And Armed forces blaming them for the ill and corruption while you sit in US and type this load of Crap ..

I do have my Freedom of expression here as well

Hi,

I am a pakistani by birth---and that will stay as my identity till eternity.

And you have no clue what I have told the higher brass---. I told Kiyani and Pasha to blow their brains with their .45's after their cowardice regarding OBL---and they were in power at that time---. Kiyani threatened me---I told him fck you coward---and I have been to pakistan mutliple times since then.

My man---just keep busy with your Mphil---if you can't participate---stay away---. This topic is BEYOND your capabilities as you have admitted---.

 

[YeBeWarned]

We all have that...however please consider if all of us start doing it then people like you and me who are not professionals and thus are not appropriate to reply would find it very hard to learn...i mean that is one of the prime reason to he here unless and until one is not a troll, no??

I am not Against Freedom of Speech , mine , his or anyone but if you are arguing something based on Your Opinion than don't use Insulting Language against the Armed forces who give their lives to protect and even given their sons .. you blame them to be corrupt and lazy ... i have no problem with , just bring forward the Proof , i myself call Kiyani and Lazy and Chuss. . but that is my Opinion and I did not raise my Finger on the entire Organization nor i will ever claim that this is how COAS should/Must do .. cause even if he is corrupt or lazy he is still better than me or some Car seller living in some old Town or Country side

 

[MastanKhan]

You know Mr Mastan Sahab, your Post make me Laugh and piss off at the same time ..
the bigger question is if our nation is so doomed by its forces than why are you so upset about ? its not your country is it ? you are living in US and probably are Citizen of America, you may even bleed red white and blue .. so why don't you let us Bleed Green and White in Peace ??

can't argue with the Quote ..

I have been following your posts and including the discussions you have had with some of the Senior members here, and as you claimed that i am new here so i am not supposed to be biased , so Oscar is not my Phuppi ka larka , nor Bilal khan is my distant cousin and neither you are my eternal Enemy .. so i never saw your post based on anything Factual or Proved Documents and if you ever post some to back your claims please Do Tag this Newbie so that i can learn something new i am always up for it ...

Bilal Khan as give you the example of Battle of Badr , now i won't compare the Army of Pakistan to those Blessed 313 people who are not just Poorly equipped but they don't even have a Proper Strategy to Fight .. but i really wonder if our Prophet on the battle ground or while sitting in his tent undermine the motivation of his troops by calling them Corrupt and Former pagan's .. but you seems to be Disturb because you are far and have nothing to do most probably , and by sitting in some 80+ oldie's gang who share their weird stories after 2 packs of red wine you take their words to be Gospel Truth .. I can't really help that ..

Hi,

Battle of Badar was 1400 years ago---for the last 500 years---the muslim militaries have been smacked around by the christian militaries---.

If your TACTICAL mindset is that of Battle of Badar---it is not a matter of pride to mention it on the world forum---. You need to raise your level of thinking and stop using the crutch of other members---.

 

[YeBeWarned]

@waz @Oscar @WebMaster Post 3 does it really deserve a Negative Rating ?

 

[deckingraj]

I am not Against Freedom of Speech , mine , his or anyone but if you are arguing something based on Your Opinion than don't use Insulting Language against the Armed forces who give their lives to protect and even given their sons .. you blame them to be corrupt and lazy ... i have no problem with , just bring forward the Proof , i myself call Kiyani and Lazy and Chuss. . but that is my Opinion and I did not raise my Finger on the entire Organization nor i will ever claim that this is how COAS should/Must do .. cause even if he is corrupt or lazy he is still better than me or some Car seller living in some old Town or Country side

fair enough...i agree that insults on armed forces is hard to gallop...however better reply to that would be defeat the post logically....there are many informed posters who can do that...my only point was such posts with due respect are at the end of day nothing but noise...

 

[Manticore]

To members

Every one has the right to his opinion.

Being a car salesman is an honest days job - so dont use derogatory remarks regarding MK's job.

90% of the members here have zero credibility to post anything with authority and without a shadow of a doubt. Before criticising members reflect on your own standing in the forum. Maybe you are also among the 90%

Maintain proper decorum while addressing other members particularly when you have an idea of their age

@waz @Oscar @WebMaster Post 3 does it really deserve a Negative Rating ?

Now a Car seller will tell those Professionals how to make Policies and buy Defense Stuff






and Don't even Bother replying to this post as i know it will start from either " Kid " or " you Pakistani's "

@Rashid Mahmood @Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 in case you spend half of your life serving in the Armed Force/Defnese , you Guys wasted that, instead you all should have went to US back in 70's and become a Car dealer and that give you enough confidence to Rant about Defense Acquisition/Policies/Strategy.. I am also thinking to Quite my M.phill and Future Plans to get a P.HD and become a car seller

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I would request---please discuss the tactical issues---of how the money could have been spread over a wider spectrum---and gotten the most for the bang.

Here it is simpler terms----.

You have malaria

you have blood pressure issue

you have sugar problem issues

you have cancer issue.

One day you get a massive funding to cure the problems---. You now have the money to fund the medicine of one project for ten years---let us say MALARIA.

Or if you could split it around---you could still meet all the required needs for 5 years for all the ills---without losing any ground----.

But you decide to get the medicine for Malaria for 10 years---.

Now you have our mother father sister brother uncle aunt me them others they we who have no medicine availble for Blood pressure---cancer---sugar problems---.

So---what was different in my suggestion about the navy subs---navy ships---aircraft.

 

[YeBeWarned]

To members

Every one has the right to his opinion.

Being a car salesman is an honest days job - so dont use derogatory remarks regarding MK's job.

90% of the members here have zero credibility to post anything with authority and without a shadow of a doubt. Before criticising members reflect on your own standing in the forum. Maybe you are also among the 90%

Maintain proper decorum while addressing other members particularly when you have an idea of their age

Ok so i can not Criticize someone who happens to be calling my Country's hero corrupt and incompetent but if i ask this man who happened to be a CAR SALES MAN ( no offense ) what is your Qualification to call them Corrupt and specifically based on what ??? because to be honest I cant see a single shred of Evidence from Him in the OP , i wonder what makes him or you to allow him to post or Blame a Entire Organization without a Single Prove ??

and i am among the 90% , so i am here to learn something which is based on facts and figures .. not to read someone personal opinion and forces to accept as Gospel Truth .. hope you see some logic here ..

Good day..

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I post as a pakistan---and suposedly---I am being denied to post here as well---on this thread

 

[Mo12]

Pakistan coastline is too small to have a big navy.

You have two operational ports, hard to use both as for military and commercial use.

 

[deckingraj]

just Keep following this Thread and see how many Proves Mr Khan will present , what makes you think i posted out of nowhere ? i follow his posts , and in almost every thread he came out of nowhere with some very interesting + funny yet Imaginary Stories which does not even have any backings .. so if someone else post or call the entire Org Corrupt and blame them for the ill's than this member will be banned but Mr Khan get away most of the time ..

My standing on this forum is also about 7 years now...i have had multiple discussions with him....here is his main point...his philosophy is Attack is the best Defense...so in short his suggestions is always to have the capacity to bite...Of lately Pakistan forces are turning to be a good defensive force but seems to lack being an aggressive force(ignoring the Kargil misadventure)....and whatever i have read from him is always on that line...

Here also he is suggesting the same...now you and i can differ here but his POV is still the same...b/w he has never explained one thing to my satisfaction atleast... where the fukcing money is going to come from ....even in this example he is suggesting to break the deal in two tranches of 10 billion each...so if i get it right his thought is to have two 5 years contract of $10 billion...now the missing peace is from where this additional $10 billion is going to come...!!

Pakistan coastline is too small to have a big navy.

You have two operational ports, hard to use both as for military and commercial use.

keep in mind they have to deal with a very big Navy who would be after the coastline should there are hostilities...and especially in today's world where importance of Navy is increasing my manifolds....so they would need a decent balance....and they need a bigger share from the budget...as of now lion share goes to AF->Army and leftovers for the Navy...Kind of true for us also however given we have a bigger pie to divide we are still in somewhat decent shape in Indian Ocean!!

 

[T-123456]

Hi,

Pakistan's military conglomerate has again been caught short---the surfacing of the indian sub 40 nautical miles away just when the chinese naval ship was visiting pakistan---and the inauguration of CPEC route at Gwadar just showed the pak navy was woefully ill-equipped.

A few years ago when the rumors surfaced about pak military signing a 10 billion dollars deal for 8 chinese subs and supply time of 10 years from the time of signing---and delivery of the last submarine---.

I had written that---that deal was totally ill prepared and ill conceived---. I had stated that the target should have been 5 years project---number of submarine cut in half---and the other half split between surface ships and an aircraft of the type of JH7B---.

So---that all the three facets are covered at the same time in parallel---by three different groups---which has three times the force multiplier effect---.

So rather than just having 4 submarines in 5 years----you would also have 3-4 frigates of the 5000 + tonnage capacity plus at least 4 sqdrns of heavies---be it the JH7B---or the J16's----and some smaller vessels in the 500---1500 tonnage---.

After the 5 years---another deal of 10 billion signed for more subs and ships if needed.

The casual and callous attitude of the pak military showed that it did not foresee or visualize such an incident happening so close to its waters---and that shows a very poor understanding of what is at stake in the arena---at Gwadar---the arabian sea---the gulf---.

Basically---pak military has been caught with its pants down one more time.

Then why is the PN looking for FAC boats/corvettes/frigates in separate deals(there is a thread about it ),doesnt that say enough?
For me it says that there are enough funds or ways to fund all the future needs of the PN.
The deadliest weapons in the sea are submarines,maybe thats why the focus on them first.