Pakistan Naval Aviation - Updated

[Imran Khan]

finally our P3-C find anew home at safe and secure open location at turbat

 

[CHI RULES]

Operation Tridant tactics cannot be used again as PN now has long range coastal missile batteries and AWACs patrols.

Now our enemy also has better ranged missiles and tech as well. PN needs to take steps for long range air cover of coastal area if not on ships in short to medium term.

 

[fatman17]

The most cost effective replacement for PNs venerable Sea Kings.

Z-8J/S/JH/CJ Super Frelon


Z-8 is a land or ship based ASW/SAR helicopter based upon French SA-321JaSuper Frelon (13 were bought in the late 70s). The helicopter was developed in the 80s by Changhe Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CHAIC) and gave the Chinese valuable experience of building a medium-sized helicopter. Its maximum TO weight is 13t, cruise speed 248km/hr, ferry range 1,400km, service ceiling 3,050m. Its power plant are 3 WZ-6 turboshafts. For ASW mission, Z-8 is equipped with a surface search radar, French HS-12 dipping sonar while carrying a Whitehead A244S/ET52 torpedo under the starboard side of the fuselage. It might also carry YJ-83K ASMs for anti-ship mission.Several variants were developed for PLAN including Z-8J (S/N 95x6, 95x7) transport helicopter which was first introduced in 2002. A naval SAR version called Z-8S (S/N 91x7) with upgraded avionics and a search light, a FLIR turret and a hoist first flew on December 25, 2004. At least two have been delivered to PLAN. Another SAR variant with dedicated medical equipment onboard was also developed for the Navy as Z-8JH (S/N 95x6). Four are in service with PLAN. Some were installed with a nose FLIR turret and additional external pylons to carry rocket and gun pods for anti-piracy operations.Recent image (September 2018) indicated acrash position indicator (CPI) was installed under Z-8J/JH's tail boom. At least two Z-8Js (S/N 9566, 9576) and two Z-8JHs (S/N 9516,9546) were seen onboard the aircraft carrier Liaoning for the SAR purpose. The naval Z-8series is expected to be replaced by the newZ-18. A recent image (September 2016) suggested that an improved transport/SAR variant (Z-8CJ, S/N 84x0x) has beendeveloped for PLAN which features a nose mounted weather radar, FLIR, a search light, a stretched engine compartment aft the main rotor plus a crash position indicator (CPI) installed under its tail boom.

- Last Updated 2/1/20

 

[fatman17]

Filed under Equipment Tagged with logistic support ship, Pakistani Navy, Turkey

Turkey Helps Pakistan To Recover The Wreck Of The Lost Helicopter
7 Sep 2018


The photo of the search and rescue team before their departure to Pakistan. Photo: Turkish Navy

One Sea King helicopter of Pakistani Navy crashed to the Arabian Sea on 31st August 2018. According to Pakistani Navy, the helicopter was conducting routine training operations when lost. 3 sailors were rescued and one dead were recovered. Pakistan asked Turkey to help to locate the wreck and recover the bodies of the 3 missing aircrews.

I DID NOT KNOW THIS!

 

[niaz]

Sea King is essentially Sikorsky SH3 which first flew in 1959 and was retired by the US in 2006. Z-8 is based on SA321 Super Felon which on the other hand first flew in 1962. Hence both the Sea King and Z-8 are based upon 60-year-old design.

Admittedly the freshly built Z-8 would have a lot of operational life left. Z-8 is also a bit faster with slightly longer range and more load carry capacity. Should these minor advantages justify the investment in replacing the entire Sea King fleet, yes it is probably the cheapest option.

Personally, I would stick with Sea King until Pak Navy can afford a truly modern helicopter such as the naval version of NH90 ( NHFH) or Augusta Wetland ASW 101 model 100/101. If the cash restraint continues, I would opt for the Z-18F development of Z-8.

 

[LKJ86]

The most cost effective replacement for PNs venerable Sea Kings.

Z-8J/S/JH/CJ Super Frelon

Why not Z-8L?

 

[Imran Khan]

why new helicopter it will be better to get more z9s

 

[fatman17]

why new helicopter it will be better to get more z9s

Z9er is ASW while SeaKing and Z8 are multirole ASW/SAR/CasEvac/Troop

Why not Z-8L?
View attachment 603400 View attachment 603398 View attachment 603399

not tried and tested.

Sea King is essentially Sikorsky SH3 which first flew in 1959 and was retired by the US in 2006. Z-8 is based on SA321 Super Felon on the other hand first flew in 1962. Hence both the Sea King and Z-8 are based upon 60-year-old design.

Admittedly the freshly built Z-8 would have a lot of operational life left. Z-8 is also a bit faster with slightly longer range and more load carry capacity. Should these minor advantages justify the investment in replacing the entire Sea King fleet, yes it is probably the cheapest option.

Personally, I would stick with Sea King until Pak Navy can afford a truly modern helicopter such as the naval version of NH90 ( NHFH) or Augusta Wetland ASW 101 model 100/101. If the cash restraint continues, I would opt for the Z-18F development of Z-8.

the NH90 and the AW101 price range is prohibitive $90-100m per plus infrastructure and training costs irrespective of the cash restraints.

 

[Imran Khan]

Z9er is ASW while SeaKing and Z8 are multirole ASW/SAR/CasEvac/Troop



not tried and tested.



the NH90 and the AW101 price range is prohibitive $90-100m per plus infrastructure and training costs irrespective of the cash restraints.

i know it sir but for now we have no good options in hand we can stick on z9s untill we have some decent offer

 

[fatman17]

i know it sir but for now we have no good options in hand we can stick on z9s untill we have some decent offer

true indeed. don't expect any progress as PN has upgraded its SeaKings plus purchased additional frames from the UK

 

[Tipu7]

why new helicopter it will be better to get more z9s

Navy is keeping Z9 only because it got no other option. Z9 has turned out to be a highly maintainance prone helicopter which suffers from limited range and payload capacity. Therefore, under no circumstances, PN will look towards more Z9s. In fact the entire rotary fleet of PN is either obsolete or is suffering from limited operational capacity. Hence, we will see some new helicopters in navy, hopefully soon. AW101 (even AW139 as long-term future replacement of Z9) is leading but expensive option.

 

[Imran Khan]

Navy is keeping Z9 only because it got no other option. Z9 has turned out to be a highly maintainance prone helicopter which suffers from limited range and payload capacity. Therefore, under no circumstances, PN will look towards more Z9s. In fact the entire rotary fleet of PN is either obsolete or is suffering from limited operational capacity. Hence, we will see some new helicopters in navy, hopefully soon. AW101 (even AW139 as long-term future replacement of Z9) is leading but expensive option.

200+ z9s are in service of some 12 countries sir never heard such problems .

 

[Tipu7]

200+ z9s are in service of some 12 countries sir never heard such problems .

Sir we live in Pakistan. Ever heard such complaints from even our own navy? Lack of complaint does not indicate the existence of satisfaction in every case.

 

[air marshal]

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-P-3C-Orion/2455

 

[khanasifm]

Navy is keeping Z9 only because it got no other option. Z9 has turned out to be a highly maintainance prone helicopter which suffers from limited range and payload capacity. Therefore, under no circumstances, PN will look towards more Z9s. In fact the entire rotary fleet of PN is either obsolete or is suffering from limited operational capacity. Hence, we will see some new helicopters in navy, hopefully soon. AW101 (even AW139 as long-term future replacement of Z9) is leading but expensive option.

Comparing a 4 ton class heli with 7/8 class does not make sense almost twice

Keep in mind z9 was a jump from 2 ton heli to 4 ton z9 are prove French design but not sure how Chinese version come across

Z9 French version provide heli lift to US coast guard and many other navy as being twin engin with range of approximately 400 plus km and ferry range of 800 plus meets its class requirements and can be Accommodated on smaller ships and boats

Aw139 is better but with 7/8 tons may not be options for smaller ships with pn like f22p etc

Anyway maintenance problem are due to Chinese support or something ? because French copy built is over 1000 plus in active service both military and civilian versions same as as-139