‘Pakistan is for Islam’

[SamantK]

What fruits? Pakistan was well respected in the countries I was in when Zia was ruling!! WELL RESPECTED Only SOME politicians had a problem with him bringing Islam to a position where THEY couldn't digest it (I.e. America)

You really are asking me that Zia is not responsible for many issues (the fruits) Pakistan faces today?

At that time Zia was well respected by America...

I do not follow...What exactly are you believing?

That it is the Pakistani people in power also mullahs who are responsible for the hate of India not the common Pakistanis..

In your opinion Where is it not required?

Army for one, Zia introduced a policy where the promotion of a person in Army also depended upon how well he believed in Islam or followed Islam..

 

[Ticker]

pakistanis uses/invoke islam whenever it suits them and discards it when it doesnt.Its like Islam has become the stick of Pakistani blinds to beat around everyone with it.

In a sense islam ha become gale ki haddi fro pakistanis which they neither can spit it nor they can swallow it.

I think you are wrong in making this assertion in a generalized manner.

Yes politicians or religious party heads would do it, being politicians.

But majority of Pakistanis as a nation, don't resort to such practice.

 

[Jinx1]

Why should you, if I may, my master, the lord of grasping facts, the seeker of apologies for tanned brown sahibs and protector of illiterate Pakistanis, the great Atanz the Hunk, seek an admission of guilt through a confession at the alter of Aryan God, for the confused and downtrodden, subjugated and oppressed, demoralized and exploited peoples of a faraway land known as Pakistan.

Oh my lord and protector, the great Atanz the Hunk, who also flies a Union Jack to impress his pre-eminence over the dung of the earth, us Pakistanis, and tell us that being Muslim is not the in-thing these days. And therefore, we who currently hold the cradle of an ancient civilization are but hordes of invaders of the lost ark, emanating from the steppes of godforsaken Central Asia. Oh what a shame indeed.

We are but confused, because alas we the bearers of a skin colour which is flanked between the horrifying whiteness of a Union Jack and the mellowing Dravidian dark, shame our head between the trembling knees of a cowardly and pusillanimous face, called the liberated literati of Pakistan.

You my lord are one of the those liberated literati. Who not only shame the place which gave them their identity, a name and owned them through thick and thin and stuck with them in times of their grief.

You my dear Sir, shame the country whose flag you fly on one side by not standing up for it and is ashamed of being called a Pakistani, because it is not an in thing these days.

You Sir are the scum of the earth Pakistani, and we as Pakistanis should collectively apologize and shed tears of blood, that people like you also call yourself, one of us.

Thank you for being ashamed of us.


Ne mutlu Pakistanliim diyene

How happy is the one who says "I am Pakistani"

ha ha ha .........

Was it you who mentioned to Joe Shearer in another post, in a similar circumstance that, he probably didn't get his evening tea in time.

Both of you do have a way of expressing yourself when the evening tea is taken late.

ha ha ha

 

[Ahmad]

yeah but what about Shias, Ahmadis and other minorities who are methodically getting worse treatment from radicals.

It's not the time to open the can of worms.

 

[Jade]

A survey of PDF would reveal that most Indians and Pakistanis are bloodthirsty savages that only wish to see the other side maimed and mutilated.

How can we compare member of PDF to a scientifically conducted survey. Most bloodthirsty savages will come to PDF, so sample is very biased , but will it be true of PEW survey, no I think not

 

[Ticker]

I disagree Razpak.

Religion is not the only way to forge a national identity in a diverse country. India having much greater diversity than Pakistan has been more successful in forging a national identity in the last 65 years. You don't need any common factor for that. You need common ideals. a Christian Tamil calls himself as much Indian as a Hindu from MP.

Oh C'mon. You guys have over 140 armed secessionist groups fighting to secede from India, the highest number in any country of the world. The Naxal movement, the shudars and other minorities are fighting for their rights even after 65 years and is certainly not the unity that you seek in diversity. And I am not talking religion at all.

 

[SamantK]

Oh C'mon. You guys have over 140 armed secessionist groups fighting to secede from India, the highest number in any country of the world. The Naxal movement, the shudars and other minorities are fighting for their rights even after 65 years and is certainly not the unity that you seek in diversity. And I am not talking religion at all.

Can you please let us know how you have arrived at the 140 figure? I've heard it many times without reference?

 

[Ticker]

Can you please let us know how you have arrived at the 140 figure? I've heard it many times without reference?

It has been posted before. The list taken from an Indian web site.

I will do the honours again .......

India - Terrorist, insurgent and extremist groups

Assam
1. United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA)
2. National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB)
3. United People's Democratic Solidarity (UPDS)
4. Kamtapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)
5. Bodo Liberation Tiger Force (BLTF)
6. Dima Halim Daogah (DHD)
7. Karbi National Volunteers (KNV)
8. Rabha National Security Force (RNSF)
9. Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation (KRLO)
10. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
11. Karbi People's Front (KPF)
12. Tiwa National Revolutionary Force (TNRF)
13. Bircha Commando Force (BCF)
14. Bengali Tiger Force (BTF)
15. Adivasi Security Force (ASF)
16. All Assam Adivasi Suraksha Samiti (AAASS)
17. Gorkha Tiger Force (GTF)
18. Barak Valley Youth Liberation Front (BVYLF)
19. Muslim United Liberation Tigers of Assam (MULTA)
20. United Liberation Front of Barak Valley
21. Muslim United Liberation Front of Assam (MULFA)
22. Muslim Security Council of Assam (MSCA)
23. United Liberation Militia of Assam (ULMA)
24. Islamic Liberation Army of Assam (ILAA)
25. Muslim Volunteer Force (MVF)
26. Muslim Liberation Army (MLA)
27. Muslim Security Force (MSF)
28. Islamic Sevak Sangh (ISS)
29. Islamic United Reformation Protest of India (IURPI)
30. United Muslim Liberation Front of Assam (UMLFA)
31. Revolutionary Muslim Commandos (RMC)
32. Muslim Tiger Force (MTF)
33. People’s United Liberation Front (PULF)
34. Adam Sena (AS)
35. Harkat-ul-Mujahideen
36. Harkat-ul-Jehad

Jammu & Kashmir

Outfits
1. Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO)
2. Hizb ul Mujahideen (HM)
3. Harka ul Nisar (HuA, presently known as Harkat ul Mujahideen)
4. Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT)
5. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM)
6. Harkat-ul Mujahedeen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul- Ansar)
7. Al Badr
8. Jamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM)
9. Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ)
10. Harkat-ul-Jehad-i-Islami
11. Al Barq
12. Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen
13. Al Jehad
14. Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army
15. People’s League
16. Muslim Janbaz Force
17. Kashmir Jehad Force
18. Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force)
19. Al Umar Mujahideen
20. Mahaz-e-Azadi
21. Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba
22. Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front
23. Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen
24. Islamic Students League
25. Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir
26. Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria
27. Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters
28. Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami
29. Muslim Mujahideen
30. Al Mujahid Force
31. Tehrik-e-Jehad
32. Islami Inquilabi Mahaz

Other Secessionist Groups
1. Mutahida Jehad Council (MJC) -- A coordination body of terrorist outfits active in Jammu and Kashmir
2. Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF)-- The dominant faction of this outfit declared a ceasefire in 1994 which still holds and the outfit restricts itself to a political struggle.
3. All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC) -- an alliance of 26 diverse political and socio-religious outfits amalgamated to provide a political face for the movement in the State.
4. Dukhtaran-e-Millat (DeM) -- an outfit run by women which uses community pressure to further the social norms dictated by Islamic fundamental groups.

Manipur
1. United National Liberation Front (UNLF)
2. People’s Liberation Army (PLA)
3. People’s Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak (PREPAK)
The above mentioned three groups now operate from a unified platform, the Manipur People’s Liberation Front (MPLF)
4. Kangleipak Communist Party (KCP)
5. Kanglei Yawol Kanna Lup (KYKL)
6. Manipur Liberation Tiger Army (MLTA)
7. Iripak Kanba Lup (IKL)
8. People’s Republican Army (PRA)
9. Kangleipak Kanba Kanglup (KKK)
10. Kangleipak Liberation Organisation (KLO)
11. Revolutionary Joint Committee (RJC)
12. National Socialist Council of Nagaland -- Isak-Muivah (NSCN-IM)
13. People’s United Liberation Front (PULF)
14. North East Minority Front (NEMF)
15. Islamic National Front (INF)
16. Islamic Revolutionary Front (IRF)
17. United Islamic Liberation Army (UILA)
18. United Islamic Revolutionary Army (UIRA)
19. Kuki National Front (KNF)
20. Kuki National Army (KNA)
21. Kuki Revolutionary Army (KRA)
22. Kuki National Organisation (KNO)
23. Kuki Independent Army (KIA)
24. Kuki Defence Force (KDF)
25. Kuki International Force (KIF)
26. Kuki National Volunteers (KNV)
27. Kuki Liberation Front (KLF)
28. Kuki Security Force (KSF)
29. Kuki Liberation Army (KLA)
30. Kuki Revolutionary Front (KRF)
31. United Kuki Liberation Front (UKLF)
32. Hmar People’s Convention (HPC)
33. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)
34. Hmar Revolutionary Front (HRF)
35. Zomi Revolutionary Army (ZRA)
36. Zomi Revolutionary Volunteers (ZRV)
37. Indigenous People's Revolutionary Alliance(IRPA)
38. Kom Rem People's Convention (KRPC)
39. Chin Kuki Revolutionary Front (CKRF)

Meghalaya
1. Hynniewtrep National Liberation Council (HNLC)
2. Achik National Volunteer Council (ANVC)
3. People’s Liberation Front of Meghalaya (PLF-M)
4. Hajong United Liberation Army (HULA)

Nagaland
1. National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Isak-Muivah) – NSCN(IM)
2. National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Khaplang) – NSCN (K)
3. Naga National Council (Adino) – NNC (Adino)

Punjab Though an Indian Home ministry Report some years ago said 50 groups.
1. Babbar Khalsa International (BKI)
2. Khalistan Zindabad Force (KZF)
3. International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF)
4. Khalistan Commando Force (KCF)
5. All-India Sikh Students Federation (AISSF)
6. Bhindrawala Tigers Force of Khalistan (BTFK)
7. Khalistan Liberation Army (KLA)
8. Khalistan Liberation Front (KLF)
9. Khalistan Armed Force (KAF)
10. Dashmesh Regiment
11. Khalistan Liberation Organisation (KLO)
12. Khalistan National Army (KNA)

Tripura
1. National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT)
2. All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF)
3. Tripura Liberation Organisation Front (TLOF)
4. United Bengali Liberation Front (UBLF)
5. Tripura Tribal Volunteer Force (TTVF)
6. Tripura Armed Tribal Commando Force (TATCF)
7. Tripura Tribal Democratic Force (TTDF)
8. Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF)
9. Tripura Liberation Force (TLF)
10. Tripura Defence Force (TDF)
11. All Tripura Volunteer Force (ATVF)
12. Tribal Commando Force (TCF)
13. Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF)
14. All Tripura Bharat Suraksha Force (ATBSF)
15. Tripura Tribal Action Committee Force (TTACF)
16. Socialist Democratic Front of Tripura (SDFT)
17. All Tripura National Force (ATNF)
18. Tripura Tribal Sengkrak Force (TTSF)
19. Tiger Commando Force (TCF)
20. Tripura Mukti Police (TMP)
21. Tripura Rajya Raksha Bahini (TRRB)
22. Tripura State Volunteers (TSV)
23. Tripura National Democratic Tribal Force (TNDTF)
24. National Militia of Tripura (NMT)
25. All Tripura Bengali Regiment (ATBR)
26. Bangla Mukti Sena (BMS)
27. All Tripura Liberation Organisation (ATLO)
28. Tripura National Army (TNA)
29. Tripura State Volunteers (TSV)
30. Borok National Council of Tripura (BNCT)

Mizoram
1. Bru National Liberation Front
2. Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)

Arunachal Pradesh
1. Arunachal Dragon Force (ADF)

Left-wing groups
1. Communist Party of India-Maoist (CPI-Maoist)
2. People's War Group
3. Maoist Communist Centre
4. People's Guerrilla Army
5. Communist Party of India-Marxist Leninist-Janashakti(CPI-ML-Janashakti)
6. Tritiya Prastuti Committee (TPC)

Other Groups
1. Tamil National Retrieval Troops (TNRT)
2. Akhil Bharat Nepali Ekta Samaj (ABNES)
3. Tamil Nadu Liberation Army (TNLA)
4. Deendar Ajnuman
5. Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI)
6. Asif Reza Commando Force
7. Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
8. Kamatapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)
9. Ranvir Sena

 

[SamantK]

It has been posted before. The list taken from an Indian web site.

I will do the honours again .......

India - Terrorist, insurgent and extremist groups

And I wanted the link as well and do you believe all of them are active?

 

[Riyadh Haque]

Shias are muslims and Ahmedis are not..............

Pakistani Shia sisters cursing Abu Bakr, Omar, Othman (1,2,3) - YouTube

truth about shia by imam of Haram Mosque in Mecca - YouTube


See reaction of Shaykh when abused by rafidi callers - YouTube

Sunni vs Shia debate on infallibility of Imams & Muawiyah raa and Al Hasan raa - English subtitles - YouTube

 

[Riyadh Haque]

yeah but what about Shias, Ahmadis and other minorities who are methodically getting worse treatment from radicals.

It's not the time to open the can of worms.

I think it is already be too late to put those fitnah worms back in the can. Here is what may well be coming our way in Pakistan soon:

CONSTITUTION (TWENTIETH AMENDMENT) ACT, 2013

An Act to amend the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan [Gazette of Pakistan, Extraordinary, Part I, 17th August, 2013]

The following Act of Parliament received the assent of the President on 17th August,2013, and is hereby published for general information:-

Whereas it is expedient further to amend the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for the purposes hereinafter appearing ;

It is hereby enacted as follows:-

1- Short title and commencement.

(1) This Act may be called the CONSTITUTION (TWENTIETH AMENDMENT) ACT, 2012
(2) It shall come into force at once.

2- Amendment of Article 106 of the Constitution.

In the Constitution of Islamic Republic of Pakistan, hereinafter referred to as the Constitution in Article 106, in clause (3) after the words "communities" the words and brackets "and persons of Jafari, Zaidi, Alevi or related Madhabs or the Ahle Tashi (who call themselves 'Shias')" shall be inserted.

3- Amendment of Article 260 of the Constitution.
In the Constitution, in Article 260, after clause (2) the following new clause shall be added, namely--

(3) A person who does not believe in the rightful succession of Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Umar and Hazrat Usman, the First Three of the Four Rashidun Khalifas; or claims that Hazrat Ali possessed divine qualities or performed miracles, in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever; or claims that Hazrat Hussein, Hazrat Hasan and their descendents were infallible with divinely-guided knowledge of the unseen and the future, is not a Muslim for the purposes of the Constitution or law."

Source: The Constitution of Pakistan

The Twentieth Amendment

 

[Sinnerman108]

Shia religion is a strange religion.

I shall say no more, it is Ramadan.

 

[Dubious]

I disagree Razpak.

Religion is not the only way to forge a national identity in a diverse country. India having much greater diversity than Pakistan has been more successful in forging a national identity in the last 65 years. You don't need any common factor for that. You need common ideals. a Christian Tamil calls himself as much Indian as a Hindu from MP.

I understand a Christian would call himself an Indian but why a Hindu? Is he confused between worshipping Jesus and Krishna/Kali/ Ganesh/ Shiva...?

Just a few days back in some thread I was told that an Indian can be called a Hindustani but not all Indians are Hindu and Hindu is not a religion of the state as the state is secular....so why on earth would a Christian want to be called a Hindu?

 

[SamantK]

I understand a Christian would call himself an Indian but why a Hindu? Is he confused between worshipping Jesus and Krishna/Kali/ Ganesh/ Shiva...?

Just a few days back in some thread I was told that an Indian can be called a Hindustani but not all Indians are Hindu and Hindu is not a religion of the state as the state is secular....so why on earth would a Christian want to be called a Hindu?

Hindu was not a religion, it was made out to be a religion, Hindu comes from the word Sindh and it essentially means that people belonging to this sub-continent much before the invasions took place.

In our country since Hindu became a religion and Muslims and other religions do not relate to this religion they will not like being called Hindu.. however in the historical sense it is not related to religion..

 

[Dubious]

You really are asking me that Zia is not responsible for many issues (the fruits) Pakistan faces today?

At that time Zia was well respected by America...

Yes...I am asking you to elaborate...Because I do not understand what you are trying to aim at here!

That it is the Pakistani people in power also mullahs who are responsible for the hate of India not the common Pakistanis..

True...Same goes on India's part..The govt there supports hatred just like Pakistani govt supports it...Because a united Pakistan and India would only push people who fill their pockets out of the picture...

Army for one, Zia introduced a policy where the promotion of a person in Army also depended upon how well he believed in Islam or followed Islam..

I am not too sure about his principals...All I know is that Pakistan was Internationally well recognized during his time and we did not have suicide bombing like today...NOR did the middle class suffer as they suffer now...Back then we had poor no doubt but even the lower middle class could afford a descent livelihood..Now only the rich can breathe...while the middle class struggle way beyond necessary for the daily needs!

What do you know about Pakistan now...You only know what the media wants you to know!

Hindu was not a religion, it was made out to be a religion, Hindu comes from the word Sindh and it essentially means that people belonging to this sub-continent much before the invasions took place.

In our country since Hindu became a religion and Muslims and other religions do not relate to this religion they will not like being called Hindu.. however in the historical sense it is not related to religion..

Tell that to your country men who were bashing some Pakistanis on the forum for using the word Hindu to call the general Indian public...

You can call us Hindustanis, dear. We will be very happy. But to any average Indian, the word "hindu" is a religion,not philosophy. You just can not call an indian muslim "Hindu" just bcz he lives in Hindustan. Isn't it?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/member...g-india-pakistan-border-10.html#ixzz23kbDXjAY

2
Pakistani text books and the way Pakistani members talk here referring to Indians as Hindus clearly shows what they are taught and how they think of India

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/member...g-india-pakistan-border-10.html#ixzz23kbPgTHA