‘Pakistan is for Islam’

[Riyadh Haque]

If they don't consider Shia Muslims, then how come, The current President of Pakistan is a Shia, how come the current ruling political party is all Shia, how come Bhutto ( which many Pakistanis consider a great leader) was a shia......

(1) The PPP is not a Shia party. Vast majority of their legislators in the National Assembly are not Shia.

(2) Bhutto-Zardari Families are Shia, but not everybody knows this because they do not behave in a Sectarian way in Public.

(3) Unlike the US, the President is not directly elected in Pakistan. Presidents are indirectly selected in Pakistan. If Zardari were to stand for direct nation-wide elections for President, he would lose.

So the Shia at high-places from important land-owning families does not tell you anything (one way or the other) about how Pakistanis view the Shia in general.

 

[Zarvan]

yeah but what about Shias, Ahmadis and other minorities who are methodically getting worse treatment from radicals.

Ahmadis are not Muslims and Minorities will have those rights which Islam gives to them

 

[Dubious]

How am I supposed to know you are so ignorant on this topic? I do not have the patience to type each and everything here, you can search around and find out, not very difficult. Or open a thread specifically to discuss Zia.


There is a wiki on that, seriously were you born in Pakistan?
Pakistani textbooks controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wiki is not a very authentic source...

UPDATE: Here is the current version of the Passport Application form:

http://www.embassyofpakistanusa.org/forms/A form fillable.pdf

It is likely that in 2013, the Passport Office will be issuing new passport applicant forms with the following modifications:

Where? I never used this form for my passport renewal!

 

[SamantK]

Wiki is not a very authentic source...

Why are you in denial, its not like I quoted a single statement from that wiki and anyways you can go and check the references if you want. Believe me they are authentic.

 

[blain2]

yeah but what about Shias, Ahmadis and other minorities who are methodically getting worse treatment from radicals.

The radicals need to be checked. Its just simple as that. None of this takes away from the fact that Pakistan indeed is an Islamic state. The right of all minorities need to be guarded. This has and can happen in an Islamic society.

 

[Solomon2]

The radicals need to be checked. Its just simple as that. None of this takes away from the fact that Pakistan indeed is an Islamic state. The right of all minorities need to be guarded. This has and can happen in an Islamic society.

But if "Pakistan is for Islam" doesn't that mean radicals like Osama bin Laden are a much lesser threat than eleven year-old non-Muslim girls who may or may not burn pages from the Koran?

 

[Thor]

The Constitution of Pakistan is as follows:

Article 2 - Islam is the State Religion

Part I : Introductory

 

[Bhairava]

And riots are nothing new for the sub-continent.. anger will be vent by some but then how we will come out of it will matter..

Exactly. ...

I for one am happy that I don't live in India. Even with 15% Muslims they are hopping mad with hate against Muslims. I wonder what they would do if it was 33%, in united India. I would have to live under constant suspicion of the majority Hindus, and would have to constantly "prove" my loyalty to India. I would probably need a character certificate to go to a public toilet. You have seen how much love Bangladeshis get from Indians, even though BD is an "ally" of India.

Would it burst your bubble if I said I'm happy that I'm not living with bangaldeshis either.

 

[Bhairava]

Ahmadis are not Muslims and Minorities will have those rights which Islam gives to them

Which is dhimmitude.

 

[SamantK]

Pakistan was never meant to be independent, forget about Islam! It was a counter to the supposed oppression of Hindu majority, and no one gave a serious thought what Pakistan would be..

And after 65 years, the confusion prevails..

 

[FaujHistorian]

Pakistan was never meant to be independent, forget about Islam! It was a counter to the supposed oppression of Hindu majority, and no one gave a serious thought what Pakistan would be..

And after 65 years, the confusion prevails..

"Supposed oppression of Hindu majority"? Supposed???????????????


Oh Bhai, the oppression was as real as sun or the moon. And if you don't know about our "shared history", then I pity your intellect.


I tell you what!

You agree that population of Muslims in India is similar (or at least comparable) to what we have in Pakistan. Right?


Now compare the number of engineers, doctors, judges, top level manager etc. across the border. Ideally India being more progressive, more dynamic, more developed means that higher number of Muslims should show up in such statistics.

But I tell you something simple.

I visit my cousins every other year, and I see Indian Muslims in pitiful dark situation, even if you factor in the death and destruction in Karachi all thanks to my own community's support for fascist mohajir party MQM and resulting chaos and Bhatta khori.


Before 1947 every Muslim majority region suffered greatly at the hands of Hindu minority in every province including Bengal, Punjab, KPK (then Frontier), Sindh etc.


So my dear dear dear ignorant poster, read up a bit before shaming your country by posting 3rd grade sarkari school history.


Sure Pakistan is deep doodoo. But let's not mutilate our history. let's not mutilate it please.


peace

 

[Bhairava]

You agree that population of Muslims in India is similar (or at least comparable) to what we have in Pakistan. Right?


Now compare the number of engineers, doctors, judges, top level manager etc. across the border. Ideally India being more progressive, more dynamic, more developed means that higher number of Muslims should show up in such statistics.

Wow what a logic !

In Pakistan while Muslims have no competition to the posts of "managers", doctors, engineers etc-- hence most of them would be Muslims -- , in India they have competition. In simple words - percentages matter and not absolute numbers.

Anyway coming to the point, if the oppression was true as sun rises in the east, why are your relatives still in India ? I mean why did they not leave India in the first place ? Are they masochists?

 

[HappinessMark!]

"Supposed oppression of Hindu majority"? Supposed???????????????


Oh Bhai, the oppression was as real as sun or the moon. And if you don't know about our "shared history", then I pity your intellect.


I tell you what!

You agree that population of Muslims in India is similar (or at least comparable) to what we have in Pakistan. Right?


Now compare the number of engineers, doctors, judges, top level manager etc. across the border. Ideally India being more progressive, more dynamic, more developed means that higher number of Muslims should show up in such statistics.

But I tell you something simple.

I visit my cousins every other year, and I see Indian Muslims in pitiful dark situation, even if you factor in the death and destruction in Karachi all thanks to my own community's support for fascist mohajir party MQM and resulting chaos and Bhatta khori.


Before 1947 every Muslim majority region suffered greatly at the hands of Hindu minority in every province including Bengal, Punjab, KPK (then Frontier), Sindh etc.


So my dear dear dear ignorant poster, read up a bit before shaming your country by posting 3rd grade sarkari school history.


Sure Pakistan is deep doodoo. But let's not mutilate our history. let's not mutilate it please.


peace

I strongly agree bro...
I learnt there 150 million muslims in India...why is not such proportion of msulim not here in this forum, when here we see Pakistanis and BDs bros...so I agree that muslims in India are still opressed...You know even Delhi and other part were the capital during partition, so naturally they should have been more strong as they were more closer to the united-India...But we don't see anywhere Indian muslims on the platforms like PAkistan and BDs...We pray for the existance of Pakistan and BD until the exitence of planet (Ameen)...May God help humanity in resovling their mutual conflicts...

 

[Solomon2]

I strongly agree bro...
I learnt there 150 million muslims in India...why is not such proportion of msulim not here in this forum, when here we see Pakistanis and BDs bros...so I agree that muslims in India are still opressed...

Arrrgh! He agrees with you, Fauji, but for the wrong - fallacious - reasons! Politicians and myth-makers love this, but what are you and I supposed to do about it?

 

[FaujHistorian]

The radicals need to be checked. Its just simple as that. None of this takes away from the fact that Pakistan indeed is an Islamic state. The right of all minorities need to be guarded. This has and can happen in an Islamic society.

This is the problem my dear dear dear poster.

When you say "Pakistan INDEED is an islamic state", the statement becomes the prime mover for all the $hite, all the hatred, all the prejudice, all the killing.

What is "Islamic state", is something you cannot define. Khilafa Rashida? you betcha,

Do you know that during that Rashid Khalifa rule, Islamic state was in reality and "anarchy state"???????????????

THREE of the 4 Rashid Khalifa were murdered on the job,

First Rashid Khalifa's installation started the major split in Muslims now known as "Shia-Sunni" split and resulting murders, killings, assassinations, wars, and deadly infighting to say the least.

This is considering the fact that Rashid Khalifa's were managing a tiny tiny tiny population compared to what we have today in Pakistan.


Please use your intellect and clear up the false stories about some romantic era.


Same thing is true with every dynasty (Mamlooks, Abbasis, Barbars, Ottomans etc. ) that they falsely called themselves Khalifa, when in reality they were just monarchies like any monarchy of their time be it Muslim or non-Muslim.


So you may ask if "Pakistan cannot be an Islamic state" then what?

The answer is simply. Pakistan can be a JUST state as promised in our sacred document called "Pakistan resolution". That by the way is real constitution of Pakistan.

What we call constitution today is simply mutilation that deals more with Pakistan's penal code with some references to supposed constitution.

I urge you to quit feeding the Mullah fire by saying "Pakistan is an Islamic state", because it can never be one. And if you don't stop, then we'll continue slipping further and further into anarchy which was the hall mark of Islamic state under Usman and Ali rah. (and the beginning of Abu Bakr and end of Omer rah)


peace