Pakistan 'in' South Asia

[Shahin Vatani]

Appreciate the correction.

Good point regarding Islam's 360 degree spread, but the timelines do not exactly coincide right?

I mean in terms of Africa, Spain etc. vis a vis the first waves that hit India. 500 odd years (I suck at history and dates)?

Actually the conquest of Spain came roughly 100 years after the beginning of the Empire, not 500. Still even before that in the beginning of the Rashidun Caliphate, significant land gains where made in North Africa. Here is a map of the first conquests.

As you can see, Saudi Arabia is roughly in the middle of it all. So going further eastwards into India would have made the Rashidun Empire rather lobsided.

Off-topic: What is the view of Alexander in the Parsi community?

 

[angeldust]

Some of us are of Arab descent, Turkish descent, Central Asian descent etc etc.

Large part of us are the descendents of the Indus Valley Civilization.

Because the current Indian Hindus did not have a identity since thousands of years. And because they occupied Delhi, which for some part of history was the center of Indian ruler, thought that they are by default the owners of whole of Muslim or British India. It was not true in 1947 when current state known as India was formulated and is not true even now.

We the people of Pakistan are the scions of and hold the cradle of Indus Valley Civilization and have done so since thousands of years. The current majority who hold the cradle of Indus Civilization are the true scions and nobody else.

The current Indians, because we ruled them as scions and holders for thousands of years were our subjects. How can now, the subjects seek to be the owners of what we held for thousands of years.

Ye log hamaray kammi kameen thay - ab kaisay sahab ban saktay hein. Na pehlay thaty na ab hein aur na hi kabhi hongay.

Pakistan is one of the strongest nations of not even South Asia but West Asia and Middle East as well. India ke identity-less and identity-seeking Hindu upstarts se hamein kisi kisim ki acknowledgment nahin chaihiye.

That a nation can produce an Oscar as well as a Ticker is what keeps the science of eugenics alive.

 

[ajtr]

Pakistan is one of the strongest nations of not even South Asia but West Asia and Middle East as well. India ke identity-less and identity-seeking Hindu upstarts se hamein kisi kisim ki acknowledgment nahin chaihiye.

tum "hum " nahi ho saktey .tum to mehghar ke high caste brahmin ho...you cant be us...

Waise aaj brush ki yha ke nahi?warna aaj se 8000 saal baad kisi ko fir se ched wala daant milega g-10 ki khudai karte waqt....

 

[ALOK31]

Some of us are of Arab descent, Turkish descent, Central Asian descent etc etc.

Large part of us are the descendents of the Indus Valley Civilization.

Because the current Indian Hindus did not have a identity since thousands of years. And because they occupied Delhi, which for some part of history was the center of Indian ruler, thought that they are by default the owners of whole of Muslim or British India. It was not true in 1947 when current state known as India was formulated and is not true even now.

We the people of Pakistan are the scions of and hold the cradle of Indus Valley Civilization and have done so since thousands of years. The current majority who hold the cradle of Indus Civilization are the true scions and nobody else.

The current Indians, because we ruled them as scions and holders for thousands of years were our subjects. How can now, the subjects seek to be the owners of what we held for thousands of years.

Ye log hamaray kammi kameen thay - ab kaisay sahab ban saktay hein. Na pehlay thaty na ab hein aur na hi kabhi hongay.

Pakistan is one of the strongest nations of not even South Asia but West Asia and Middle East as well. India ke identity-less and identity-seeking Hindu upstarts se hamein kisi kisim ki acknowledgment nahin chaihiye.

 

[angeldust]

Actually the conquest of Spain came roughly 100 years after the beginning of the Empire, not 500. Still even before that in the beginning of the Rashidun Caliphate, significant land gains where made in North Africa. Here is a map of the first conquests.

As you can see, Saudi Arabia is roughly in the middle of it all. So going further eastwards into India would have made the Rashidun Empire rather lobsided.

Off-topic: What is the view of Alexander in the Parsi community?

Yeah, but India was always a prize for any and every invader.

You have not heard who it was that got the Faravahr removed from Oliver Stone's "Alexander"?

We are small. But we are far from impotent. And we talk and write up a storm when something gets under our skin.

Google Zubin Mehta.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Yeah, but India was always a prize for any and every invader.

You have not heard who it was that got the Faravahr removed from Oliver Stone's "Alexander"?

We are small. But we are far from impotent. And we talk and write up a storm when something gets under our skin.

How was the Faravahar being portrayed in the Alexander movie that made you against it?

Where Parsis also angry about the 300 movie?

Also I heard of Zubin Mehta before. I saw an interview where he talked about meeting Shah of Iran.

Here they are:

 

[angeldust]

How was the Faravahar being portrayed in the Alexander movie that made you against it?

Where Parsis also angry about the 300 movie?

The original promos and stills and posters had ALEXANDER written in bold script across the backdrop of the Faravahar.

The Zoroastrians of California (ZAC) were literally camped in Hollywood for a month from what I remember. Amongst many others across the world.

We are pissed with 300 as well, but that's more fictional. Not even the ignorant rednecks buy the characteriztion of the Persians and Xerxes there.

But Alexander is history. And the Faravahar is our faith.

 

[scorpionx]

300 was a pain to watch,so much unnecessary illogical chest thumping..

Secular india where minorities are constantly under attack. They have no voice.

They have a voice louder than any other minorities of any country on this earth.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Cuz we are not Arab. We are successors of the Indus Valley Civilization (strongest muslim country on earth) and we dont have to prove ourselves to anybody

Try to understand this; it will take an effort, but the effort is worth it.

NOBODY is the successor of the Indus Valley Civilisation. That civilization left no legacy behind, not even a genetic legacy. No cultural legacy, no artistic legacy, no scientific legacy - nothing links the IVC with the peoples who have dwelt in its locations after its passing.

No cities were built of that type after the civilization passed on. Its language is unknown. Its seals are indecipherable; the few clues that exist point to a tenuous but unprovable link to the religious practices of the rest of the sub-continent. Its political set-up and its ideology, its religion, its method for exchanging information among its constituent cities and dwelling places, its interactions with neighboring cultures in the Persian Gulf, none of this is known, far less inherited and practiced by people living there.

How can you claim to be its successors? You occupy some of the major sites, not all. You may describe your role as stewards of that rich legacy, keepers of the remnants, curators, preservers. Is that not good enough? Do you really get a charge out of making untenable claims, which inspire only ridicule among the auditors?

On the other hand, in your obsession with owning what was never yours and will never be yours, you have lost track of your true heritage. You do happen to be residents of the south Asian sub-continent, and heirs to all its culture and its legacy, whether you claim it or not. Simultaneously, you are a member of a religious community that spans the world. Are these by themselves not sufficient?

 

[Ticker]

Duly noted and edited to Alexander of Macedon.

Another point may be that India, being a largely peaceful nation, never had as many enemies as Iran/Persia.

For example Persia and Greece where warring with each other for Centuries before Alexander showed up. The rivalry was really intense and there was extra incentive for Alexander to conquer Iran. The same was not true for India.

Now for the Arabs/Muslim conquests, you must remember that they where increasing their empire westwards and not just eastwards. Therefore they didn't have enough resources at their disposal necessary enough to invade India, while still concentrating on North Africa and Southern Europe.

The India that you are talking about was created by the British in 1947. Muslims created India as we see the current geographical entity. Before the Muslims, it was 4-5000 years ago that such an entity was visible.

Current India has not been a peaceful and status quo country as the Indians project it to be, because;

India is not a status-quo power. It is a regional hegemon. It invaded and captured Junagarh and Manavadar in 1947, invaded and captured Indian Occupied Kashmir in 1947, invaded and captured Hyderabad in 1948, invaded and captured Goa in 1961 which was an area belonging to Portugal, invaded East Pakistan in 1971, captured certain locations in Chorbatla in Kashmir in 1972, invaded and captured Sikkim as late as 1975, invaded and captured some portions of Siachen in 1984, captured certain locations in Qamar Sector in Kashmir in 1988, created Sri Lankan terrorist group LTTE and later invaded Sri Lanka in 1988 till the President of Sri Lanka had to openly ask the Indians to leave, invaded Maldives in 1988 and has continually interfered in internal affairs of Nepal and Bhutan and has spread state sponsored terrorism in all her neighbouring states including Pakistan.

Learn more of history of this part of the world before you start educating us with your persian superiority complex.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

300 was a pain to watch,so much unnecessary illogical chest thumping..

Its the most racist movie I have ever seen. Even if I weren't Persian I would still be offended. A bunch of muscular, healthy white guys beating up a group of deformed and handicapped blacks, asians and middle easterners.

Learn more of history of this part of the world before you start educating us with your persian superiority complex.

Having read the ignorance you come up with in your previous posts, it will be a waste of my time to give you a proper answer. This is the best you can expect from me.

 

[ALOK31]

The India that you are talking about was created by the British in 1947. Muslims created India as we see the current geographical entity. Before the Muslims, it was 4-5000 years ago that such an entity was visible.

Current India has not been a peaceful and status quo country as the Indians project it to be, because;

India is not a status-quo power. It is a regional hegemon. It invaded and captured Junagarh and Manavadar in 1947, invaded and captured Indian Occupied Kashmir in 1947, invaded and captured Hyderabad in 1948, invaded and captured Goa in 1961 which was an area belonging to Portugal, invaded East Pakistan in 1971, captured certain locations in Chorbatla in Kashmir in 1972, invaded and captured Sikkim as late as 1975, invaded and captured some portions of Siachen in 1984, captured certain locations in Qamar Sector in Kashmir in 1988, created Sri Lankan terrorist group LTTE and later invaded Sri Lanka in 1988 till the President of Sri Lanka had to openly ask the Indians to leave, invaded Maldives in 1988 and has continually interfered in internal affairs of Nepal and Bhutan and has spread state sponsored terrorism in all her neighbouring states including Pakistan.

Learn more of history of this part of the world before you start educating us with your persian superiority complex.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pakistanis are not Arab.

Pakistanis have a wide variety of ethnic mix into their gene pool which includes Arabs, Persians, Hindus, Central Asians, etc.

We are better than Arabs.

I agree that you are not Arabs. However, there are isolated communities of more-or-less Arab descent who live in Pakistan and are bona fide Pakistani citizens. They must be allowed to take pride in their heritage. Other than the Baloch and the Pukhtun, however, the Pakistanis of the Punjab and the Sind are genetically very close to the rest of the sub-continent. There were large inflows of people; presumably, we have to conclude that they were not large enough in numbers to show up under detailed scrutiny.

You can still say you are a fine people.

Why not to be all rounders , do in Roman as Romans do
In Arab follow Arab , With Iran be a good neighbor and show similarities with them , With Indians be like an Indian ( so much in common with Indians).
Why to be in one domain , why not to be multicolor society and get adjusted easily in globalization.

Ummm, why did you think this needed to be conveyed in a diffident manner? As it happens, the people of Pakistan can claim ties with each of these three, in a most legitimate manner. Or have I mistaken high-bred reserve for diffidence?

 

[Ticker]

Try to understand this; it will take an effort, but the effort is worth it.

NOBODY is the successor of the Indus Valley Civilisation. That civilization left no legacy behind, not even a genetic legacy. No cultural legacy, no artistic legacy, no scientific legacy - nothing links the IVC with the peoples who have dwelt in its locations after its passing.

No cities were built of that type after the civilization passed on. Its language is unknown. Its seals are indecipherable; the few clues that exist point to a tenuous but unprovable link to the religious practices of the rest of the sub-continent. Its political set-up and its ideology, its religion, its method for exchanging information among its constituent cities and dwelling places, its interactions with neighboring cultures in the Persian Gulf, none of this is known, far less inherited and practiced by people living there.

How can you claim to be its successors? You occupy some of the major sites, not all. You may describe your role as stewards of that rich legacy, keepers of the remnants, curators, preservers. Is that not good enough? Do you really get a charge out of making untenable claims, which inspire only ridicule among the auditors?

On the other hand, in your obsession with owning what was never yours and will never be yours, you have lost track of your true heritage. You do happen to be residents of the south Asian sub-continent, and heirs to all its culture and its legacy, whether you claim it or not. Simultaneously, you are a member of a religious community that spans the world. Are these by themselves not sufficient?

This is a funny argument.

Because these people lived around 7000 BCE, we the current people who live on this land don't live like them. We don't have the kind the houses they used to live in, our culture should not have progressed to the current stature, our religious beliefs could not and should not have changed, instead of driving modern cars we should be using the bullock carts used by them, instead of having modern tanks, aircraft and nuclear weapons we should be using the horse and chariots like our ancestors.

These guys were Hindus once - this is OK, these people were Buddhists once, this is permissible, but these people can't be Muslims.

The legacy and heritage is created and carried forward by the people of the land Sir, the rest changes over a period of time due to natural progression of civilizations.

We have not lost track of true heritage. We have progressed forward and no matter that you may not like it, we will remain the scions of and holders of the Indus Valley Civilization. Period.

 

[Ticker]

This is our heritage Mister. This is our history and we are proud of the Mauryan Empire. We are proud of the Mulsim History. We are the proud scions of and holders of the cradle of this civilization.

What are you trying to boast about. Because Mauryan Empire was Hindu or Ashoka was Buddhist - this is our heritage as they were part of Indus valley Civilization of which we are the scions of and not you people.

We are now Muslims. And that is how it is, and that is how it will remain.

Its the most racist movie I have ever seen. Even if I weren't Persian I would still be offended. A bunch of muscular, healthy white guys beating up a group of deformed and handicapped blacks, asians and middle easterners.

Having read the ignorance you come up with in your previous posts, it will be a waste of my time to give you a proper answer. This is the best you can expect from me.

This is the best you can ever project yourself to be.

Because you are a tin horn - now scoot.

Currently, you guys are nobodys.

You are not part of South Asia, because you feel that you people are too good for it - you are not part of the Arab world because the Arabs don't want you. Stay in the hell hole you have created for yourself.