Pakistan finally given up on Saudi Arabia?

[Baz2020]

Khadamain e harmain sharefain . LMAO. These MOFO saudis ... Woe to saudis

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Your understanding is not correct. Secularism was added in India's Constitution in 1976 by Indira Gandhi to appease a section. Equality etc will remain even when we remove Secularism. 1976...remember not 1947.

Too much propoganda results in suppressing of facts conviently.

You were never a "Hindu country". You been selling your manjan to whole world since your birth that you are secular and plural society where religion do not play any role in state affairs.

We in Pakistan have no issues. Put your money where your loud mouth is, change your constitution and rebrand yourself as a Hindu country.

 

[xyx007]

This is a disingenuous way of characterizing him. He is a patriot first and foremost, who was a government official in Quetta, and he was even posted in Iran. He has written scripts for dramas, is a known poet, and is kbowledgeable in Pakistani culture, regions, and has explored many remote areas of the country.

If you listen to his talks on economics, you can tell he is very knowledgeable in those matters.

Pakistani leaders, religious scholars, technocrats regularly visit his show. Not too long ago, an official of Abdullah Abdullah's team was on his show to give Kabul's perspective on the peace process.

He is one of the people who is foremost in condemning media lies, and he even criticizes PTI many times when he disagrees with them, even though they hold him up in high esteem.



We should know that Iran backed off from their hostile path against Pakistan, only because of Chinese investment (and the influence along with it.)

Considering the extremely hostile rhetoric from Iran since the 90s against Pakistan, Afghanistan, Azerbaycan, and now against Turkey, since the Syrian conflict, we should be very cautious of the Iranians.



Very sensible post.

For now, we should explore ways to go around Iran, like through Turkmenistan to Turkey.

We are open to rapprochement with Iran, but it will require acceptance of the Taliban government in Afghanistan (and no further interference) and backing away from Indian alliance against Pakistan, of which Chabahar is the hotbed of terror.

Pakistan should be bold enough to put demands on Iran, especially in relation to Zainabiyoun, Chabahar and Indian BLA support, funding BLF, support for NDS (which is behind TTP and Daesh,) assassination of Sunni scholars in Pakistan, and threatening our borders.

A little tough stance should be enough to silence them, if only Pakistan showed some of the rhetoric which Solemani did just before Balakot happened.


Rip off the bandage, otherwise it will haunt us for years to come.

Decreasing the ability of anyone to blackmail us is common sense.



I want you to explain the Afghan Muslim thing more, bro.


If we are going to go further in anyone's camp, it won't be either KSA nor Iran.

We are going further into the Turkish and Azeri camp. Our alliance is getting stronger day by day.

Today in Baku, people are waving Pakistani flags and chanting Pakistan.





They are bow paying for their sins of betraying the Ottomans. It has been 200 years. Now the knot of the rope has been reached.

Azab of Allah swt will ascend from beneath the Earth and descend from the Heavens.

They will have no shadow to protect them from the scorching sun.

Betraying Palestine was the last act of theirs.



Great post. Thanks.



Leave the Hindu Indian to his thoughts. Let us discuss the matter at hand.



You make us seem like we are someone whom we are not.

Pakistan has a very obvious goal, which is to unite the Muslims together and bring a new revival of the Islamic world. So far we have been occupied by our internal matters for 73 years, but finally we have unified our nation.

Pakistan is about to break out into the world as a major force. It is happening very soon.

You all will see a very different Pakistan emerge in 2021, just as Imran Khan had said.

جماعة الاخوان المسلمين
was founded in 1928 by Hassan al-Banna, an Egyptian schoolteacher, who preached implementing traditional Islamic Sharia law in all aspects of life, from everyday problems to the organization of the government. Inspired by Islamic reformers Muhammad Abduh and Rashid Rida, he believed that Islam had lost its social dominance to corrupt Western influences and British imperial rule. Israel felt a threat from this org. So you have seen two coups that occurred, one in Egypt and the second was Turkey. Erdogan was smart enough to save himself from the Israeli evil plan. But, Mursi On 3 July, the head of the Egyptian Armed Forces, General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, responded to the demands of the protesters in Tahrir Square during the 30 June Demonstration and after discussing the issue with the main political parties and religious leaders of the country removed President Mohamed Morsi and suspended the constitution.

Saudi initially was the big supporter of this Jamat, but since the new shezada policy to protect the Israeli interest, he recently banned this Jamat by his gang of mufti fatwa.

Muslim Brotherhood terrorist group, does not reflect Islamic values: Saudi scholars

RIYADH:The Saudi Council of Senior Scholars said on Tuesday that the Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist group and does not represent the true values of Islam, the Saudi Press Agency reported. The council described the Brotherhood as a deviant group that undermines coexistence within nations and...

www.arabnews.com

 

[Xone]

Khadamain e harmain sharefain . LMAO. These MOFO saudis ... Woe to saudis

why all are bent upon losing civility to respond to others, where have gone the manners and ethics?
if Pakistan is going to join hands with saudi main rival iran which never hesitate to threaten us or even violate our air space how could you ask for better response from KSA.
It is the obvious result of our leadership choice. but why we are not trying ti restore that warm relationship instead of cursing KSA for not giving away money and oil for free. Why we are not looking at our own actions. we are humiating them in open and expecting favours from them. What tregic way of behaving with brothers who get annoyed with our behaviour.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

___________________

I’ll make sure to share this thread in Arabic defense forums, it’ll show our gullibles who still believe in Islamic brotherhood how Pakistanis really feel about us

Please do, the boat of Islamic bortherhood sailed a long time ago when whole GCC backstabbed Kashmir issue which is the redline of Pakistan and sided with India. You lot cant even side with your own Arab in Palestine. LOL.

WHY WHY WHY do we have to choose camps
They need cheap labour we provide it..

Its not a favour its business ..

They cant find this good labor anywhere elese sane south asia and may be far east asia thoigh that avenue is almost gone(as they pay far less for anyone from south east asia to come)

Africans are not reliable in work..they may try that avenue though
Please stop it and play smart like india(untill recently though under idiot modi)

Who is taking sides? Pakistan for very first time in its history is actually and practically following the "Pakistan first" policy (Not that Musharraf non sense) .

Saudis were invited to join CPEC, they dithered, Iran on the other hand jumped on it and Chinese signed the deal with them. So tell me, are you going to say no to Chinese that sorry you cant build pipelines on our territory and dont give us all the hefty fees because our Saudi friends are opposed to it??

That expat issue is not our making, they are using it as a leverage. Understand the difference.

This is a disingenuous way of characterizing him. He is a patriot first and foremost, who was a government official in Quetta, and he was even posted in Iran. He has written scripts for dramas, is a known poet, and is kbowledgeable in Pakistani culture, regions, and has explored many remote areas of the country.

If you listen to his talks on economics, you can tell he is very knowledgeable in those matters.

Pakistani leaders, religious scholars, technocrats regularly visit his show. Not too long ago, an official of Abdullah Abdullah's team was on his show to give Kabul's perspective on the peace process.

He is one of the people who is foremost in condemning media lies, and he even criticizes PTI many times when he disagrees with them, even though they hold him up in high esteem.

There is no ill will or bad intention here, just wanted to kill any "sectarian" angle to it. when a known Pro taliban man is saying this, it has a different kind of effect .

We should know that Iran backed off from their hostile path against Pakistan, only because of Chinese investment (and the influence along with it.)

Considering the extremely hostile rhetoric from Iran since the 90s against Pakistan, Afghanistan, Azerbaycan, and now against Turkey, since the Syrian conflict, we should be very cautious of the Iranians.

Indeed. Persians are slippery lot no doubt about it. Have to keep hawkeye on them.

We can change but given the circumstances until we can able to generate 20 billion dollar roughly revenue without the help we can't do anything..since it's easy to say for people who will not be impacted by the economic fall out of the decisions..and that includes all who are not living in ground in Pakistan ...so these are all emotions and feel good things unless it affects someone own stomach ..harsh but sad reality ...

We are on our path to economic recovery. Insha Allah hopefully things will start to get better.

what are you suggestions btw? Keep on getting blackmailed by SA? They have already used Pakistani expats as a leverage against Pakistan own national interests. Even Erdogan confirmed that.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

جماعة الاخوان المسلمين
was founded in 1928 by Hassan al-Banna, an Egyptian schoolteacher, who preached implementing traditional Islamic Sharia law in all aspects of life, from everyday problems to the organization of the government. Inspired by Islamic reformers Muhammad Abduh and Rashid Rida, he believed that Islam had lost its social dominance to corrupt Western influences and British imperial rule. Israel felt a threat from this org. So you have seen two coups that occurred, one in Egypt and the second was Turkey. Erdogan was smart enough to save himself from the Israeli evil plan. But, Mursi On 3 July, the head of the Egyptian Armed Forces, General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, responded to the demands of the protesters in Tahrir Square during the 30 June Demonstration and after discussing the issue with the main political parties and religious leaders of the country removed President Mohamed Morsi and suspended the constitution.

Saudi initially was the big supporter of this Jamat, but since the new shezada policy to protect the Israeli interest, he recently banned this Jamat by his gang of mufti fatwa.

Muslim Brotherhood terrorist group, does not reflect Islamic values: Saudi scholars

RIYADH:The Saudi Council of Senior Scholars said on Tuesday that the Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist group and does not represent the true values of Islam, the Saudi Press Agency reported. The council described the Brotherhood as a deviant group that undermines coexistence within nations and...

www.arabnews.com

It is the Levantine faction which is close to KSA, not the Egyptian one.

There is no ill will or bad intention here, just wanted to kill any "sectarian" angle to it. when a known Pro taliban man is saying this, it has a different kind of effect .

Every patriotic Pakistani will favor the Taliban over the current government in Afghanistan.

His identity is that he is pro-Pakistan, favors the army and PTI, and speaks out against corrupt political parties.

He is a student of Dr. Israr Ahmad, so he has a strong religious mindset, and enlightens viewers on ahadith, sayings of sufi bozorg, and the statements of Quaid e Azam and other Pakistani founders/leaders.

Also an accomplished poet, writer, journalist, and civil servant.

Indeed. Persians are slippery lot no doubt about it. Have to keep hawkeye on them.

They have proven that they will join with anyone against us, be they India, US, Kabul, or anyone else.

If they want friendly ties, they need to abandon these policies whoch fuel terrorism in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Pakistan is very close to adopting a hostile stance towards them as well.

 

[FlashGordon]

You were never a "Hindu country". You been selling your manjan to whole world since your birth that you are secular and plural society where religion do not play any role in state affairs.

We in Pakistan have no issues. Put your money where your loud mouth is, change your constitution and rebrand yourself as a Hindu country.

Do you know USA, UK, FRANCE etc are Christian Country as per their Constitution. They are still Secular and gives equality to their Citizens.

Pakistan is Islamic and is not Secular neither gives equality to its citizen. Every thing in Pakistan is from the prismof religion.

India , even when it becomes a Hindu State, it will be Secular and Equality will continue to be to all citizens.


The whole discussion on this topic started as few people has been insinuating here that kayamat will fall on India if it chooses to be s Hindu State.

 

[diligence]

Even though Pakistan currently holds a leverage with both the US and China. But as a matter of fact, Pakistan is poised to go along China for this alliance is much more supportive to our long-term national interests. Our relations with the US have been based on inequality and our role in the US-led alliance will at best be at the third tier. Even Saudis, who get snubbed and disgraced from time to time, are not treated as equal partners by Americans and that is not unnatural given the Saudis lack of technological prowess. The US has resorted to coercive diplomacy with Pakistan in the past in addition to using Saudis to indirectly pressurizing Pakistan and influencing our policies at both external and internal fronts. There is no reason for that to change in future if Pakistan joins the US-led alliance. Rather Pakistan will be treated as a third-tier junior client state that is supposed to serve the interests of others. That is indeed disgraceful for a nuclear state having a large professional military along with advanced missiles. Our successive governments are responsible for such an insulting treatment by other countries. Our financial woes and desperation for getting international diplomatic support for our Kashmir cause have rendered us prone to a perpetual exploit by other countries. We should have strived for standing on our feet by innovative strategies for controlling imports and promoting exports to attain a better financial health.

Saudis are reluctant to extend diplomatic support to Pakistan on Kashmir as is evident from the Saudi failure to condemn Indian action of annexing the Indian occupied state of J&K an action that is in the clear violation of concerned UN resolutions. In addition to that, Saudis and UAE have big investment plans for India just ignoring Pak sensitivities. These monarchies are acting like that just because they expect no punitive action or reaction from Pakistan. These fiefdoms consider allowing Pak expats to work in their countries as a big favor to Pakistan and want to use that as a leverage to malign or threaten Pak government. Given the rapidly diminishing diplomatic support from Arab states and their battering economies, it is the time for Pakistan to reject a third level position in the US-led alliance with the contempt that it really deserves. Saudis and Americans must be living in fools paradise if they even expected that eventuality in the current geostrategic realities.

This is the time that we develop our policies in a cool-minded state based on solid facts and ground realities rather than emotions. Our shared interests with other countries should dictate our foreign policy towards those countries. It is quite natural that not 100% interests might be overlapping with most other counties. We will have to plan ahead on how the areas of divergent interests would be reconciled and agreed with the concerned countries in black and white. If Americans directly or indirectly pressurize us to recognize Israel, our demand should be for them to get us Indian Occupied J&K. It is a trade-off, plain and simple.

We have a much better position waiting for us in the China-led alliance. In fact, Pakistan is going to play a pivotal role in that alliance in accordance with our strategic geolocation, military capabilities, and our status of being a nuclear state with hundreds of atomic bombs and advanced missiles. All these strategic capabilities of ours are of no use in the US-led alliance. Worse than that, our strategic capabilities are, in fact, considered as a threat to the interests of the US, Israel, and Western countries. The national interests of those countries and Arab fiefdoms are best served if Pakistan acts as their subordinate state safeguarding their national interests at the cost of our own national interests.
We need to be prepared for dealing with the expected fall out of the transition of alliance. First, we need to find out an alternate source of oil. Iran and Azerbaijan are two obvious candidates. For gas, Qatar might be a good source. As opposed to other Sheikhdoms, Qatar doesnt normally resort to knee-jerk foreign policies. In addition, their long-term interests are aligned with Turkeys and thus might be compatible with our interests in the foreseeable future.
We also need to realistically analyze the possibility of Pak expats getting expelled from KSA/UAE. These expats are playing a really important role in those states and cannot be easily removed in a short period of time. Based on my experience and observations, majority of Pakistanis are active in certain areas (that require strong physical health) that people from India, Bangladesh, Egypt, etc. are unwilling or cannot do. In that sense Pakistani manpower is indispensable for those countries.

Finally, it needs to be noted that the re-alignment of our foreign policy does not automatically turn Pakistan and KSA/UAE into enemies. Afterall, we have our holiest places in KSA. We dont want any harm to our Muslim brothers. Rather we want to see them peaceful and prosperous. We must be ready to provide any possible assistance in the time of need. But the zero-sum game visa vis Iran that is at play for a long time now in Pakistan must end. Also, any indirect US pressure through these states must be publicly snubbed and rejected once for all.

One should not expect that American would refrain from interfering in the Saudi internal affairs and trying to dictate their policies. That is against the nature of bossy Americans. If not MBS, then other Saudis would certainly realize the eventual dangers to their national interests. Most probably, by then Americans and Israelis would have penetrated deep into Saudi system and it will be an uphill task to get out of the mess that Saudis are now willingly descending into. That will probably be the time when Saudis will desperately need Pak help.

 

[imadul]

Good one from @Taimoor Khan
Pakistan is the Pakistan-China-Turkey-Iran+RF pivot. CARs will be naturally part of it when the economic and defense alliance will expand.
Still Pakistan will keep good relations with KSA and GCC, and Qatar, and Arab world. Egypt is very important....Arab world look up to Egypt for social direction.
Once Iran improves its relations with US, Pakistan can offer JF-17, AK1, and naval systems to Iran which is badly in need of modern military hardware.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Good one from @Taimoor Khan
Pakistan is the Pakistan-China-Turkey-Iran+RF pivot. CARs will be naturally part of it when the economic and defense alliance will expand.
Still Pakistan will keep good relations with KSA and GCC, and Qatar, and Arab world. Egypt is very important....Arab world look up to Egypt for social direction.
Once Iran improves its relations with US, Pakistan can offer JF-17, AK1, and naval systems to Iran which is badly in need of modern military hardware.

First Iran will have to kick Indians from Chabahar and adopt a peaceful posture w Pak/Afg.

 

[imadul]

First Iran will have to kick Indians from Chabahar and adopt a peaceful posture w Pak/Afg.

India has been kicked out of the chabahar rail project. China going to invest over 200 billion in Iran over next 25 years. India will be out from Chabahar port also. Cheapest energy Pakistan can get will be from Iran. With Biden in, sanctions is iran may be lifted and it will be better for pakistan to import oil and gas from iran. It is all a test of Pakistan diplomacy. But keep good relations with Gulf roo. It is not a zero sum game.

 

[kingQamaR]

the more some of you here intentionally throw in Iran’s new leaf the less we believe in this nations honesty towards us Pakistan. Shah was a good friend what came after is a lot more nastier very self interested in it’s own interests at all costs to others!!! Iran’s aggressive courting of India to disregard our national interests and worries sums them up and there U- turn ? On India how long will that last before they make up again ?

Be very careful before you dislodge Saudis and gulf we did promise them earth and all until Yemen came and we started to get caught out

Turkey and China I got no issues with but with Iran I have no trust in what the fck they stand for they support asad , and Armenia go figure that out and where the fck Pakistan fits in this Iranian mind set ???

 

[Neurath]

the more some of you here intentionally throw in Iran’s new leaf the less we believe in this nations honesty towards us Pakistan. Shah was a good friend what came after is a lot more nastier very self interested in it’s own interests at all costs to others!!! Iran’s aggressive courting of India to disregard our national interests and worries sums them up and there U- turn ? On India how long will that last before they make up again ?

Be very careful before you dislodge Saudis and gulf we did promise them earth and all until Yemen came and we started to get caught out

Turkey and China I got no issues with but with Iran I have no trust in what the fck they stand for they support asad , and Armenia go figure that out and where the fck Pakistan fits in this Iranian mind set ???

Well our anti-American fellows here love Iran. Plus, China's been co-operating a lot with them lately.
I don't think Pakistan really wants to go towards Iran, we're just being forced to. Historically, we have been the allies of Gulf States, helping them everywhere needed.
However, lets see how things end. I doubt we'll be going too far from Saudi Arabia. Our wahabi clerics and mainstream muslims are still aligned with the Saudis.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Do you know USA, UK, FRANCE etc are Christian Country as per their Constitution. They are still Secular and gives equality to their Citizens.

Pakistan is Islamic and is not Secular neither gives equality to its citizen. Every thing in Pakistan is from the prismof religion.

India , even when it becomes a Hindu State, it will be Secular and Equality will continue to be to all citizens.


The whole discussion on this topic started as few people has been insinuating here that kayamat will fall on India if it chooses to be s Hindu State.

India's western sugardaddies have their own evolution to what they are now. Regardless what their constitution say, one thing is clear, religion or church is completely removed from state affairs.

India on the other hand, as I said before trying to sell this non sense about its secular credentials right from its beginning, to get brownie points from west.

We got a situation now where a hindu fanatic and terrorists organisations and its disciples are in power. India is now more divided based on religion. By all means, become "Hindu republic of India", here in Pakistan we will cheer for you. But you can't sell your manjan about secular afterwards becuase the regime that is ruling you, are hindu fanatics/terrorists. We have already seen its effects beings played on streets of your capital not long ago.

 

[Microsoft]

Bhai, using big words and english like PMIK will not change things on ground.

Indian Constitution is secular. Indian Army and all institutions take oath under Indian Constitution. Period.

What is the reality on the ground in India? The secular constitution is actually implemented in practice? Remind me again how CAA and NRC nonsense are applications of this.