Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[umair86pk]

F-16 Is obsolete....... F-35 is the new champion of the sky....

That why USAF is keep them operational for atleast 2048.

 

[airmarshal]

A rare close up of a PAF Viper tanking with USAF KC-135 during Red Flag.


View attachment 414042

When were the stiffening plates attached to PAF F-16s? Its those bulging pieces that are at the wing roots. Was it part of the MLU?

 

[EpiiC]

That why USAF is keep them operational for atleast 2048.

F-35 is the replacement for F-16....

 

[Talon]

That why USAF is keep them operational for atleast 2048.

Savage..

 

[Taygibay]

i pretty much think f-16 era has ended, pakistan also doesnt seem to be interested spending big on fourth gen fighters especially when it has its own "gripen" the thunder, this is clearly hinted in recent interview with PAF chief who mentions that JF-17 will be taken to peak of fourth gen fighters, in long run just like sweden was able to bring down its operating cost alot with gripen, we will be able to replicate it with thunder in numbers

Very decent overview mate! With maybe a caveat thrown
in that if a correctly priced offer for F-16s, even for parts,
came around, it would make sense to get these so that it
would sound reasonable.

I mean for example at both end of the spectrum : -a very
unlikely "gift" financed in part by the USA for new planes
and -getting older frames to pick for maintenance in the
very long lead to a program à la ROSE Pakistan excels at.

Those fit the available means? Meanwhile, you have the
Thunder and the ongoing learning / creating cycle of its
cooperative frame. That's where the money should flow
for now ( after operational needs OFC ) unless a newer
cooperation arises with long term gains.

As I've expressed before, taking into account its size, its
means ( $ ) and the threat matrix, Pakistan should play
the air denial with missile batteries over the glacis which
waves of enemy fighters will roll unto with the PAF "only"
swatting down stragglers. Unless the idea is to start a war?

And since the F-16s and Thunder can do that and will
get better at it for the second with a knowledge profit
for the nation's engineers, it might make sense to find
a nice COIN bird to replace at least some of the Mirage
and Chengdu. That will save a lot on operations from
which part may go to equip the BoGs and the rest be
saved for the next acquisition of a new type of fighter.
Hopefully, the economy will have grown by then and it
will allow for a no compromise choice?

I expect Thunder numbers to go up personally. ( Past 150 )

Good day to you, Tay.

 

[ziaulislam]

Very decent overview mate! With maybe a caveat thrown
in that if a correctly priced offer for F-16s, even for parts,
came around, it would make sense to get these so that it
would sound reasonable.

I mean for example at both end of the spectrum : -a very
unlikely "gift" financed in part by the USA for new planes
and -getting older frames to pick for maintenance in the
very long lead to a program à la ROSE Pakistan excels at.

Those fit the available means? Meanwhile, you have the
Thunder and the ongoing learning / creating cycle of its
cooperative frame. That's where the money should flow
for now ( after operational needs OFC ) unless a newer
cooperation arises with long term gains.

As I've expressed before, taking into account its size, its
means ( $ ) and the threat matrix, Pakistan should play
the air denial with missile batteries over the glacis which
waves of enemy fighters will roll unto with the PAF "only"
swatting down stragglers. Unless the idea is to start a war?

And since the F-16s and Thunder can do that and will
get better at it for the second with a knowledge profit
for the nation's engineers, it might make sense to find
a nice COIN bird to replace at least some of the Mirage
and Chengdu. That will save a lot on operations from
which part may go to equip the BoGs and the rest be
saved for the next acquisition of a new type of fighter.
Hopefully, the economy will have grown by then and it
will allow for a no compromise choice?

I expect Thunder numbers to go up personally. ( Past 150 )

Good day to you, Tay.

Pakistan would jump at used deal like what Indonesia got 24 c/d~ 750 with training and 8 spares to block 52 standard(meaning for PAF a similar deal would be even cheaper nearing the price of thunder). ROSE deal brought local manufacturing of avionics and radars under licence with independence of integrating home built weapons.
i doubt USA will offer anything below 100 million or will offer ToT with avionics or anything like it did with turkey or other patner nations and thus f-16 era has ended for PAF

 

[Raider 21]

Pakistan would jump at used deal like what Indonesia got 24 c/d~ 750 with training and 8 spares to block 52 standard(meaning for PAF a similar deal would be even cheaper nearing the price of thunder). ROSE deal brought local manufacturing of avionics and radars under licence with independence of integrating home built weapons.
i doubt USA will offer anything below 100 million or will offer ToT with avionics or anything like it did with turkey or other patner nations and thus f-16 era has ended for PAF

If that's possible again...then Venezuela should've retired their F-16s as well and they're still doing fine...

 

[CriticalThought]

Pakistan would jump at used deal like what Indonesia got 24 c/d~ 750 with training and 8 spares to block 52 standard(meaning for PAF a similar deal would be even cheaper nearing the price of thunder). ROSE deal brought local manufacturing of avionics and radars under licence with independence of integrating home built weapons.
i doubt USA will offer anything below 100 million or will offer ToT with avionics or anything like it did with turkey or other patner nations and thus f-16 era has ended for PAF

My sole interest in a handful of very latest model F-16, or indeed any latest model jets, is for PAF to have hands on experience with what is out there. It is good to have exercises with friendly nations, but having the aircraft within the country that you own yourself gives many learning opportunities which are otherwise unavailable.

Uptil now, one big driver of quality in PAF is the experience they have had with latest technology due to the F-16s. There is no substitute for it.

 

[EpiiC]

That why USAF is keep them operational for atleast 2048.

Savage..

The F-16 had been scheduled to remain in service with the U.S. Air Force until 2025.[102] Its replacement was planned to be the F-35A variant of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II, which is expected gradually begin replacing several multi-role aircraft among the program's member nations. However, due to delays in the F-35 program, all USAF F-16s will receive service life extension upgrades..... F-35 is the replacement for f-16 due to delays it's service life has been extended.

 

[khanasifm]

Original design per paf history book jf-17 will be 70% is paf requirements i.e. 70% fleet will be jf , with total 18/19 fighter sqn not counting no 1 fcu, it is about 13 sqn so 13x about 20 per sqn (16-18 plus 2-4 attrition replacement over life time) or 260 jf needed remaining will be f16 or 2 sqn of new type plus 4 existing f16 sqn

Guessing

 

[Chak Bamu]

Original design per paf history book jf-17 will be 70% is paf requirements i.e. 70% fleet will be jf , with total 18/19 fighter sqn not counting no 1 fcu, it is about 13 sqn so 13x about 20 per sqn (16-18 plus 2-4 attrition replacement over life time) or 260 jf needed remaining will be f16 or 2 sqn of new type plus 4 existing f16 sqn

Guessing

Good guess. If JF-17 Block-3 is anything like what most here expect, then it should be produced in numbers as the most numerous type. It should out-number Block-2 at least. If there has to be an air war, I would much rather our enemy face Block-3 instead of Block-2.

F-16 is an old story now. There is nothing in it for Pakistan unless US Admin changes its course. Unless we get good second-hand units, investing in F-16 make little sense.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Good guess. If JF-17 Block-3 is anything like what most here expect, then it should be produced in numbers as the most numerous type. It should out-number Block-2 at least. If there has to be an air war, I would much rather our enemy face Block-3 instead of Block-2.

F-16 is an old story now. There is nothing in it for Pakistan unless US Admin changes its course. Unless we get good second-hand units, investing in F-16 make little sense.

IIRC AM (R) Shahid Lateef saying on TV once that the JF-17s will be produced in Blocks. So if there are to be 150-200 or even 200-250 slots, then that might mean we'll see Block-IV and Block-V variants. In all likelihood it'd make sense to base those from the Block-III, but iterative improvements, e.g. EW/ECM, avionics or even radar might be seen down the line.

 

[Franek Grabowski]

The future of F-35 is still disputed in the US, with several concerns raised. This is big business and big money, and there is much pressure to stop F-16 production in favour of F-35, but it may all change with the new administration. There is still some potential in F-16, and it may well serve until the arrival of unmanned aircraft.

 

[ziaulislam]

The future of F-35 is still disputed in the US, with several concerns raised. This is big business and big money, and there is much pressure to stop F-16 production in favour of F-35, but it may all change with the new administration. There is still some potential in F-16, and it may well serve until the arrival of unmanned aircraft.

Looks like older f15 will go and some around 500 f16 will go through SLEP to keep them flying till 2050

 

[Incog_nito]

Is PAF planning to acquire additional Jordanian F-16s and if yes then how long will it take to arrive in Pakistan?