Pakistan conducted successful flight test of Air Launched Cruise Missile “Ra’ad-II”.

[Signalian]

Do you think PA and PAF will share those in public?? Did PA ever mentioned in public that they had installed EW equipment on Mi-17 and had sent it near border to collect data??

It has more to do with Chinese origin EW, where as USA made pods are public, even if PAF doesn't publicize them.

 

[CriticalThought]

Theoretically maybe, practically its yet to be seen.

Modern wars are won by those who make the theoretical, even the seemingly improbable or impractical, possible. I wish to see Pakistani Armed Forces developing new technology that keeps the enemy on its toes.

 

[Signalian]

Modern wars are won by those who make the theoretical, even the seemingly improbable or impractical, possible. I wish to see Pakistani Armed Forces developing new technology that keeps the enemy on its toes.

That is analogous to R&D.

If there is R&D occurring on such level in Pak Unis or collaboration with foreign support, its possible.

 

[CriticalThought]

That is analogous to R&D.

If there is R&D occurring on such level in Pak Unis or collaboration with foreign support, its possible.

R&D doesn't happen in isolation. It is the job of army personnel to understand the current bleeding edge of technology and the possibilities it creates for warfare, then propose a new world of possibilities that give them the edge against the enemy. Only then R&D is engaged to realize those possibilities through technology. Otherwise you are asking researchers to wage the war for you.

 

[Signalian]

R&D doesn't happen in isolation. It is the job of army personnel to understand the current bleeding edge of technology and the possibilities it creates for warfare, then propose a new world of possibilities that give them the edge against the enemy. Only then R&D is engaged to realize those possibilities through technology. Otherwise you are asking researchers to wage the war for you.

From your post it seems either you don't understand R&D through educational institutions or you have no idea about military R&D at all. Perhaps you don't understand - Research.

The Pakistan Military has its own institutions of R&D and also outsources projects to organizations and universities. R&D works both ways; Military hands out its own parameters, Defense organizations are sent those requirements, who in their capacity either can start designing them or with the hep of military set up certain syndicates who are assigned to start a research project on them. At this point, different universities like NUST for example come in. NUST is an amalgamation of uniformed and civilian cadres, who work for the defense branches of the Military domain. NUST has affiliated itself with all the educational defense institutions. Next there are local contractor companies, who directly or indirectly work in the R&D sector for the Military. On the other hand, researchers themselves can propose projects which could align with the military. These can be funded by educational institutions in which the Research will be conducted. The aim of a researcher is to enhance current body of knowledge. In doing so, research never goes wasted. It becomes a citation for a different project which may share similarities in certain aspects. Under some sensitive conditions, the secrecy of a research does become important and has been happening in many different countries especially in the nuclear domain, however research has been centralized to a larger capacity than decades ago where confidentiality was important, at least till the end product was in sight. Military R&D in all countries demanded some sort of secrecy. Even back then researchers of same field, working day and night together, had a lot of exposure to material which was not publicly available. Research and Development itself has been revolutionized now in this modern century, whether in Military or civilian applications.

 

[CriticalThought]

From your post it seems either you don't understand R&D through educational institutions or you have no idea about military R&D at all. Perhaps you don't understand - Research.

That's a bit rich coming from someone who thinks the F-16 is a dog, and F-14, F-15, SU-30 were built for BVR combat or 'heavy strike roles':

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-un-intended-eye-opener-of-27th-feb.609124/page-27#post-11303247

and that an effective counter against Brahmos is a CIWS. Your posts show you are clueless about aerial warfare.

The Pakistan Military has its own institutions of R&D and also outsources projects to organizations and universities. R&D works both ways; Military hands out its own parameters, Defense organizations are sent those requirements, who in their capacity either can start designing them or with the hep of military set up certain syndicates who are assigned to start a research project on them. At this point, different universities like NUST for example come in. NUST is an amalgamation of uniformed and civilian cadres, who work for the defense branches of the Military domain. NUST has affiliated itself with all the educational defense institutions. Next there are local contractor companies, who directly or indirectly work in the R&D sector for the Military. On the other hand, researchers themselves can propose projects which could align with the military. These can be funded by educational institutions in which the Research will be conducted. The aim of a researcher is to enhance current body of knowledge. In doing so, research never goes wasted. It becomes a citation for a different project which may share similarities in certain aspects. Under some sensitive conditions, the secrecy of a research does become important and has been happening in many different countries especially in the nuclear domain, however research has been centralized to a larger capacity than decades ago where confidentiality was important, at least till the end product was in sight. Military R&D in all countries demanded some sort of secrecy. Even back then researchers of same field, working day and night together, had a lot of exposure to material which was not publicly available. Research and Development itself has been revolutionized now in this modern century, whether in Military or civilian applications.

Stop arguing against your ownself and confusing yourself to a point you go off on a tangent. We are discussing why Pakistan Army cannot employ a 600 km range Raad in a manner that conceals the final target in case the missile is intercepted mid course. Stop making excuses and stop derailing the thread with useless rants.

 

[Basel]

It has more to do with Chinese origin EW, where as USA made pods are public, even if PAF doesn't publicize them.

Did PAF published what European EW they are using??

 

[Signalian]

That's a bit rich coming from someone who thinks the F-16 is a dog, and F-14, F-15, SU-30 were built for BVR combat or 'heavy strike roles':

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-un-intended-eye-opener-of-27th-feb.609124/page-27#post-11303247

and that an effective counter against Brahmos is a CIWS. Your posts show you are clueless about aerial warfare.



Stop arguing against your ownself and confusing yourself to a point you go off on a tangent. We are discussing why Pakistan Army cannot employ a 600 km range Raad in a manner that conceals the final target in case the missile is intercepted mid course. Stop making excuses and stop derailing the thread with useless rants.

Ok, you are getting back at me with older posts because i said you dont know anything about R&D, well you don't know about R&D and that is a fact, but all is not lost, since you can learn here on PDF, if you dont have any other channel of learning, which seems to be the case from your posts.

F-16 has proved itself and CIWS are there for a reason, if you cant accept that, then maybe you need to learn about weapon systems also.

As for R&D, I had a hunch you won't get what I will be saying that you dwell on your ego, not on logic, not on reason, which is actually critical in a learning curve, but let me not give you that lesson, your posts are a testimony to that already. I have explained the R&D concept of Pak Military since I have been associated with that institution. Yours are general comments not specific information, sorry to say but yours are more like to increase post count with no worthwhile information.

Did PAF published what European EW they are using??

Much of European systems are also published online already, just like american.

 

[Signalian]

You have no idea how much I actually know about both civilian and military R&D in Pakistan. But unlike you:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/systems-took-kit-stk-has-anybody-worked-on-this-program.653062/

I don't provide R&AW with my calling card so they can congratulate me personally for a job well done. Stop your attempts at sabre rattling like Raj from 'The Big Bang Theory':

View attachment 607561

Saying that you "know" about something and unable to prove it or show it in posts are two very different things

If a post is to be made about a certain topic, then there is enough solid material in that post which gives information or shows a certain mechanism or structure for the readers. You mentioned mid course, i corrected you about it. Then you yourself mentioned R&D, i again showed you how R&D is conducted in Pakistan Military, since yours was a general idea.

Now since you had no reply to both the topics, which you actually brought up yourself, after which you then accused me of de-railing the thread, where as i was merely replying you. In the next post that you reply me, you start to post pictures/videos about which this thread has no concern with. So I would suggest you to have a look who is de-railing the thread and who is making rants here.

You are proving me right again and again about you and your posts You actually mention one of my post to which you might disagree but i have been given Positive ratings so my contribution was worthwhile. See this is what your ego makes you do, it has the tendency to turn you blind at a certain point where you dont even know what and why your are giving references. I don't feel the need to explain myself to you. You should read more into mid course as well as R&D.

I have now seen that you have nothing worthwhile to contribute anymore on the topic, so have the last word if you want for your own personal satisfaction. I have yet to see if you have anything significant to contribute.

 

[CriticalThought]

Saying that you "know" about something and unable to prove it or show it in posts are two very different things

If a post is to be made about a certain topic, then there is enough solid material in that post which gives information or shows a certain mechanism or structure for the readers. You mentioned mid course, i corrected you about it. Then you yourself mentioned R&D, i again showed you how R&D is conducted in Pakistan Military, since yours was a general idea.

Now since you had no reply to both the topics, which you actually brought up yourself, after which you then accused me of de-railing the thread, where as i was merely replying you. In the next post that you reply me, you start to post pictures/videos about which this thread has no concern with. So I would suggest you to have a look who is de-railing the thread and who is making rants here.

You are proving me right again and again about you and your posts You actually mention one of my post to which you might disagree but i have been given Positive ratings so my contribution was worthwhile. See this is what your ego makes you do, it has the tendency to turn you blind at a certain point where you dont even know what and why your are giving references. I don't feel the need to explain myself to you. You should read more into mid course as well as R&D.

I have now seen that you have nothing worthwhile to contribute anymore on the topic, so have the last word if you want for your own personal satisfaction. I have yet to see if you have anything significant to contribute.

Your positive ratings show the abysmal level of the forum in general. See, that's what lack of training does to you.

I haven't written anything 'substantive' about mid course, because you haven't corrected me yet. So how about you drop the attitude and express your exact thoughts on mid course. And before you do, you might want to search google scholar about 'cruise missile mid course correction' and 'cruise missile data link' where you might find a lot of research output from our Chinese friends, and american military articles assessing it as a threat.

 

[Signalian]

Can we used AWACS to carry PL-15, Babur & RAAD???

The concept of Bomb truck for a large dimensional aircraft is there, however AWACS has a very important task of its own. Its a force multiplier being "eyes in the sky" and a redundant command in the air.

Defence News also speculated that the "range increase would allow the missile to launch well within Pakistan’s territory while being able to hit critical targets within India—New Delhi is roughly 430 kilometers from Lahore.."

Politically, this can be given out as a statement and is possible in reality too however, there will be military targets of interest also side by side before any other targets are considered.

 

[Basel]

Ok, you are getting back at me with older posts because i said you dont know anything about R&D, well you don't know about R&D and that is a fact, but all is not lost, since you can learn here on PDF, if you dont have any other channel of learning, which seems to be the case from your posts.

F-16 has proved itself and CIWS are there for a reason, if you cant accept that, then maybe you need to learn about weapon systems also.

As for R&D, I had a hunch you won't get what I will be saying that you dwell on your ego, not on logic, not on reason, which is actually critical in a learning curve, but let me not give you that lesson, your posts are a testimony to that already. I have explained the R&D concept of Pak Military since I have been associated with that institution. Yours are general comments not specific information, sorry to say but yours are more like to increase post count with no worthwhile information.


Much of European systems are also published online already, just like american.

Really, I doubt many system came in spot light which Pakistan went for. Pakistani military wants things not to be publicized like many posters think, they prefer ambiguity about certain stuff, that is why DG ISPR said we will always surprise you.

 

[Dubious]

I wish to see Pakistani Armed Forces developing new technology that keeps the enemy on its toes.

You exhibited a wish and You further express your wish

It is the job of army personnel to understand the current bleeding edge of technology and the possibilities it creates for warfare, then propose a new world of possibilities that give them the edge against the enemy.

Our TT gave you the setting in Pakistan


and you choose to mock it. May I know why?

@Irfan Baloch kindly intervene

 

[CriticalThought]

You exhibited a wish and You further express your wish

Our TT gave you the setting in Pakistan


and you choose to mock it. May I know why?

@Irfan Baloch kindly intervene

Go back and re-read the post by your TT. He has rephrased what I said, and thus argued against himself, because earlier he placed the entire burden on the presence of R&D in Pakistani universities and foreign collaboration, thus absolving the Army proper of any responsibility to improve their own game.

And while you are at it, kindly notice the TT's jeering and demeaning behavior. He seems to be missing an 'eye' in the middle.

 

[Dubious]

Go back and re-read the post by your TT. He has rephrased what I said, and thus argued against himself, because earlier he placed the entire burden on the presence of R&D in Pakistani universities and foreign collaboration, thus absolving the Army proper of any responsibility to improve their own game.

And while you are at it, kindly notice the TT's jeering and demeaning behavior. He seems to be missing an 'eye' in the middle.

I shall leave it to @Irfan Baloch and @waz to have a second look