Pakistan & China in 1.4 billion dollar J-10 jet deal

[lockh33d]

Genious..your first post on the forum suggested how much knowledge you have...i hope when you say LCA is a third generation you meant 3rd as per chinese versioning but 4 as per western versioning..right???

and then india providing just money for PAK FA....ummmm i would suggest please read there are many threads on this forum where all these things have been discussed in details...

Anyways welcome to the forum....

He's right, you're paying the ol' Ruskies to put in the customizations as per request by the IAF. Little, if none of the FGFA is actually made in India. What the Joint project means, is that you pay Russia to develop the aircraft for both air forces, and the Ruskies will produce and customize the aircraft in accordance with the IAF. Simple as that. All the so called Indian avionics and so forth are not actually Indian made, but Indian chosen and Russian put in. Perhaps the software is the only part of the aircraft developed by India itself.

 

[lockh33d]

i think in current scenario j-10 is better than jf-17

They're not far off, I believe I saw a thread not too long ago about the popularity of the JF-17 being higher than that of the J-10 in China. Really, I don't believe there's anything special about the J-10, it's just the one most boasted about in the Chinese Air Force because little do other people know, and care about the rest of the PLAAF inventory, such as the upcoming project and the shrouded J-11B/S.

B/S does not=BullShi*t before anyone gets confused

 

[deckingraj]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am not going to fall in this trap....This thread is not to discuss what all we have/have not accomplished..it is about J10 deal with pakistan...

What the Joint project means, is that you pay Russia to develop the aircraft for both air forces, and the Ruskies will produce and customize the aircraft in accordance with the IAF

If you have this perception so be it..I have no objections in correcting you.....However if time permits go through threads where FGFA and Tejas is discussed in details...

Perhaps the software is the only part of the aircraft developed by India itself.

I am amazed you could say atleast that much though with a big perhaps...Though wondering how did a third world country with low IQ can even achieve that much

 

[deckingraj]

So you are telling me that LCA, still under testing, is superior to JF-17 despite the fact that JF-17 has finished testing for 3 years and is being inducted into Pakistan. I have this paper airplane in testing phrase and it's superior to F-22. Just take my word for it. Where did you find that list? Wikipedia?

What he is saying is that as per specifications LCA is going to be 4.5 generation aircraft...He never said its better than JF-17... How else are you going to compare fighter aircrafts...only when they get inducted???

So you are telling me that nevermind the fact that LCA still hasn't enter service or requires heavy foreign assistance, India will experience a sudden great leap forward in technology that allows them to produce an indigenious 5th generation aircraft.

No one is saying 5 generation aircraft is going to be indegenous...However your post seems to say that only job indians will do in FGFA is pay russians money and then paint the aircraft with tri-colors...

Sorry if I don't buy into that story. You guys didn't exactly have a stellar history when it comes to weapon development, i.e Arjun and LCA.

Please update yourself on Arjun and LCA...you might be surprised...


P.S: There are dedicated threads on Arjun..LCA...FGFA..so if you have something useful to add(like realizing indians about their lies and fake claims) please do so in those threads...

 

[lockh33d]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am not going to fall in this trap....This thread is not to discuss what all we have/have not accomplished..it is about J10 deal with pakistan...




If you have this perception so be it..I have no objections in correcting you.....However if time permits go through threads where FGFA and Tejas is discussed in details...

I am amazed you could say atleast that much though with a big perhaps...Though wondering how did a third world country with low IQ can even achieve that much

What trap? My post above was JF-17 vs J-10, what trap could I possibly barricade you in? As for the FGFA business, it'd help to read Wikipedia once in a while in your spare time.

P.S. I have no objections about India's capabilities, some are my views, others are taken from various online sites. Please don't see it too negatively.

 

[deckingraj]

by the time i could post..there was another post from you...i was talking about this one

He's right, you're paying the ol' Ruskies to put in the customizations as per request by the IAF. Little, if none of the FGFA is actually made in India. What the Joint project means, is that you pay Russia to develop the aircraft for both air forces, and the Ruskies will produce and customize the aircraft in accordance with the IAF. Simple as that. All the so called Indian avionics and so forth are not actually Indian made, but Indian chosen and Russian put in. Perhaps the software is the only part of the aircraft developed by India itself.

P.S. I have no objections about India's capabilities, some are my views, others are taken from various online sites. Please don't see it too negatively.

I am not and that why used the word "TRAP"..though thanks for clarification...I know you are sharing your views but they sound a little .. it wont take minutes before this thread turns out to be another discussion on Arjun, LCA, FGFA and what not...

 

[S10]

What he is saying is that as per specifications LCA is going to be 4.5 generation aircraft...He never said its better than JF-17... How else are you going to compare fighter aircrafts...only when they get inducted???

You can have the most overblown specifications on paper. Actually bringing paper specifications to reality is a bit more tricky. I can say my paper airplane technically can go warp 9 on paper, but reality says otherwise. Prime example is the Kavari engine, sounds great on paper but didn't work out like it should.

No one is saying 5 generation aircraft is going to be indegenous...However your post seems to say that only job indians will do in FGFA is pay russians money and then paint the aircraft with tri-colors...

Before I get into that, the question should be in what ways can India contribute to the program. I have a hard time trying to figure out what areas the Russians are not ahead of you. If India can't bring something to the table, then basically they're paying the Russians to develop a plane for them.

Please update yourself on Arjun and LCA...you might be surprised...

I was not surprised when India decided to purchase several hundred more T-90 from Russia last year. Also not surprising was when your defence ministry announced they were developing a next tank from scratch.

P.S: There are dedicated threads on Arjun..LCA...FGFA..so if you have something useful to add(like realizing indians about their lies and fake claims) please do so in those threads...

On the contrary, I admire Indians' resolve to develop their own systems, but you guys tend to be more optimistic than you should at times.

 

[SBD-3]

You can never convince two people, an Indian and a Jew

 

[TaimiKhan]

You can never convince two people, an Indian and a Jew

well said.

 

[abbasniazi]

Brother, I think its quite harsh to say something to a new commer, he may lose heart. i meant the bold part of ur post...

Genious..your first post on the forum suggested how much knowledge you have...i hope when you say LCA is a third generation you meant 3rd as per chinese versioning but 4 as per western versioning..right???

and then india providing just money for PAK FA....ummmm i would suggest please read there are many threads on this forum where all these things have been discussed in details...

Anyways welcome to the forum....

The best example to make someone understand yet not hurting his feeling is by Xinix, see below...

Nope, Its Not . Though i think LCA and JF17 are quite equal but see This List :

Gen 4 Fighters ::



Gen 4.5 Fighters ::



LCA seems Ahead.
So its safe to assume they are in Same Generation.



MCA is Not the Rival of JXX which will lag by atleast 5-10 years behind PAK-FA
MCA is not a threat to PLAAF, PAK-FA is, whose prototype is going to be ready by 2010 to make its maiden flight.
PLAAF will definitely lag by 5 Years when it will come to Gen 5 Fighters as IAF will have it by 2017-2020.



Actually India will not Buy PAK-FA, Its FGFA.
FGFA will have ::

• Indian Avionics
• Indian Softwares
• Dual Seat Interface

The Dual Seat Interface was a deliberate move to get back to drawing board so that Indian engineers may have a share to cooperate and design the plane.

So u see Its More than Just Money.

Brother Dekingraj, u r a senior person now, plz be considerate when u use such statements for a new commer...Regards...

 

[MZUBAIR]

Pakistan's Air Force by 2020

300 - JF-17
150 - J-10
72 - F-16
121 - Mirage 3
60 - Mirage 5
192 - F-7

No Bro...
We would be having

300 - JF-17 (50 Bomber, 150 Multirole, 50 Navy)
150 - J-10
72 to 80 - F-16 (PAF planning to buy used F-16)
60 to 80 - Mirage 3 (All will be given to Navy)
80 - Mirage ROSE Upgraded
55 - F-7 (Only F-7PG remains in service)
** - ??? (There might be one more 4.5th AC, depends on economy)

 

[MZUBAIR]

300 JF17 ?
How ? 30 A/C Per Year ?

Dhakan...we already going to have 20 - 22 (PAF already hav 12 acc to news reports) by the end of this year (1st Sqd).

If we say 25 AC per year....then from 2010 to 2020 surely we would be having 300 AC. But I feel ,in later years PAF would increase ratio of productivity as they get stong hand's on experience.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Originally Posted by Mercenary
Pakistan's Air Force by 2020

300 - JF-17
150 - J-10
72 - F-16
121 - Mirage 3
60 - Mirage 5
192 - F-7

THATS 0VER 800 PLANES.

PAF will have the biggest air force in the world bar USA/RUSSIA/CHINA.

And the best thing they will have done this in 10 years on a paupers military budget...

We already have approx 500 AC
46 - F-16
+ 200 - Mirage 3/5
+ 200 - F-7
40 - A5

 

[MZUBAIR]

I think, we need to have more F-16 fighters, perhaps more than 100.

Correct me wrong, Mirage 3, Mirage 5, and F-7 will be retired, old functions. your opinions?

Mirage 3 will be offered to Navy and PAF will keep Mirage ROSE (almost 80) and F-7PG (55) will remain in service till 2020....other all will be retired by 2015

 

[MZUBAIR]

firstly, LCA is a third generation jet, and it is still under testing, but both J-10 and FC-1 are already in the air.
secondly, MCA is only a plan, a plan on the paper. however, the Chinese j-XX project is confirmed by the general of AF, and "it will have the first-fly soon, and equiped in 8-10 years"
thirdly, Pak FA is not a Indian project, that's a Russ 5th Gen fighter, you just provide the money, that's it.

Good post, words of ma mouth.