Pakistan can not sell JF-17: China

[ramu]

There are several mistakes made while reporting defense contracts,
a lot of them are created because the countries involved never want to share details.

Ramu, Use common sense, have a look at china and have a look at what they have achieved.

DO you really believe, in your right senses that the Chinese will deny business ?

China means BUSINESS ( see now I give a whole new meaning to this term ).

AT the most the Chinese may have requested, that Pakistan may not sign a sale deal individually.

Which is fine, let China prime the deal. As long as it keeps the mill rolling.

The article could be a mistake but nothing to that effect has come out yet. Do you agree ?
I do not think China will stop sales of JF-17 but China will stop sales of JF-17 if it does not suit their liking irrespective of Pakistani opinion. For example, it is unlikely that Pakistan can push China to sell it to Bangladesh if China is not willing to sell.

Also China may not be keen on selling it if it does not have enough production capacity to meet the needs of the export market. It may also be unwilling to sell if it fears that the communication and radar systems could reveal something fundamental which China is unwilling to share.

There could be a guzillion reasons that you can imagine but the fact of the matter is Pakistan does not have enough weight to influence China into selling it when China is not interested, whatever the reason may be.

 

[Mehmet]

The Chinese have asked Pakistan not to sell the planes before the expiry of 10 years of the production of the same. 17

As far as I know , demand for 4th gen fighters would end by 2020 , coz all those countries who are likely to purchase it would have ordered it from china ,and those who are left would have purchased second hand F16 from USA
While countries with decent amount of money would like to purchase Either the gripen or the J10B
Production of High end 4.5 GEN fighters too would end by 2025
with production of Typhoon closing in 2015 without Indian order and that of Su35BM / Su30MKI/J11 ending by 2018
While Rafale Could remain in service till 2024 thanks mainly due to the massive french order of 294 aircrafts and a possible indian order for 200 Aircrafts + a Brazillian order for 36-100 aircrafts

Doubtful about that claim sir! Many countries will continue to operate 4th gen fighters past 2025. Consider that for many countries 5th gen fighters will be out of the question financially as well as the fact that many countries like my own will be using a combination of 5th and 4th gen fighters with mission profiles being assigned to combat aircraft best suited, for example you dont need a 5th gen F-35 to take out a tank since a 4th gen F-16 and even a Mig with the proper electronics can do that just fine but going against another nation's airforce or anti aicraft assets then using 5th gen would far more preferable since being true stealth (one of the key tech differences between 5th and 4th gen) will allow maximum survivability.

You are also not taking into account upgrades that will make 4th gen fighters remain competent combat aircraft past 2025.

Update: Also consider that many countries who have their own combat aircraft development programs will not jump into the deep end and produce a 5th gen fighter but will most certainly start a low tech base that is 4th gen.

 

[Merilion]

There are several mistakes made while reporting defense contracts,
a lot of them are created because the countries involved never want to share details.

Ramu, Use common sense, have a look at china and have a look at what they have achieved.

DO you really believe, in your right senses that the Chinese will deny business ?

China means BUSINESS ( see now I give a whole new meaning to this term ).

AT the most the Chinese may have requested, that Pakistan may not sign a sale deal individually.

Which is fine, let China prime the deal. As long as it keeps the mill rolling.

i too find it's hard to believe why chn wants to stop pak selling jf17 if china can share the sales proceeds. afterall jf17 is in the mind for export from the very early design phase.
so under what situation china cannot benefit from pak's selling of jf17? maybe for so called 'second hand' jf17? say paf used jf17 for 2 weeks and want to sell them to a third party, in this case will china be able to share the sales proceeds? if not maybe that's why china wants to put a 10 years time frame...just a thought, no hard feeling pls

 

[SMC]

^ Good god, some of the bharatis are so innocent, it's unbelievable. A few sources reporting something = that something is gospel truth. But wait... a crap load of sources reported that Raymond Davis was providing nuclear material to Al Qaida, a crap load of sources reported that an EU declaration condemned Pakistan, and another news story which I can't remember that had the same fate. And I think all of those stories were reported by a Pakistani news source.

 

[ramu]

^ Good god, some of the bharatis are so innocent, it's unbelievable. A few sources reporting something = that something is gospel truth. But wait... a crap load of sources reported that Raymond Davis was providing nuclear material to Al Qaida, a crap load of sources reported that an EU declaration condemned Pakistan, and another news story which I can't remember that had the same fate. And I think all of those stories were reported by a Pakistani news source.

SMC, welcome. Of all the people you call me innocent. Thanks for the compliment.

 

[SMC]

^ I think the best to do is to wait for some concrete sources. This kind of news would be reported by many sources if it were true. Time and time again I see a small number of sources reporting something, and many people jumping on that, and then later finding out that 'something' wasn't true.

 

[SpArK]

I think its due to the fact that China is willing to buy this aircraft.. i think nobody has reported it yet..

Here is the link

"There was a loan given for starting the manufacturing of this because the Chinese will also buy these aircraft," he said on Chinese financing for the order.

Sale of 50 fighter jets to Pakistan to be expedited -- Shanghai Daily | ???? -- English Window to China New

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Its a Pakistani news source , why are Indians being attacked on this thread ?

You don't like the news it is not our fault . Call up the newswallah and ask them not to print such stuff .

 

[somebozo]

JF-17 is not barred for sales as long an NOC for the intended operator is secured from China but given our own production constrains how can we think about exporting any without fulfilling our domestic demand?

 

[Kompromat]

10 years limit will expire in 2013 - whats so big deal about it ? we will keep marketing this air craft and get buyers interest while we fulfill our own needs first.

Pakistan's JF-17 Fleet in large numbers will bring more confidence amongst customers - so just hold your horses !

 

[ANG]

Hi Mr. Nick_Indian, please don't take anything personal here. This is a forum, and some people behave that way. I have never attacked anyone for who they are or where they are from, ever in my life.

You make a good point also, in order to get to the bottom of this, the "news-wallah" should be emailed and asked to confirm his sources.

 

[Developereo]

Is the JF-17 still using Russian engines? Weren't the Russians concerned about competition for their migs or something?

This could just be a Russian requirement relayed to Pakistan through China, since technically, Russia is selling those engines to China, not Pakistan.

 

[MilSpec]

JF-17 is not barred for sales as long an NOC for the intended operator is secured from China but given our own production constrains how can we think about exporting any without fulfilling our domestic demand?

Boss ... who hold the patents for the subsytems like airframe, FBW suite, Propulsion system, Avionices suite, Radar, Ejection seat, Future IRST and HMQS?

Please provide on source where China has transfered any IP rights or pakistan has made any acquisition of Intellectual property rights or patents from China.

Pakistan might have been a partner in development and upgrade of the FC1 Aircraft for their own specific needs, that does not entitle them in any way to become an exporter of this aircraft.

Key sub systems and engine is still made in China and Russia respectively,

So please enlighten me How pakistan will export a Chinese Aircraft.

I am not trying to offend pakistani or chinese members, but this entire concept of pakistan bypassing all trade practices and becoming a aircraft exporter baffles me.

I have looked into JF 17 threads and every where pakistani members keep asserting joint venture with best friend china... no one mention any IP or patents under negotiations. This is not the way aerospace industry works, unless China is giving away manufacturing and export licenses like Soviets did for AK47's. Please explain

 

[Pak_Sher]

PAF should fulfill all of its orders and war reserves before thinking of exports. Defence of Pakistan is more important then making sales to other nations.

 

[monitor]

If this news is true then it can be called a dream buster . we have been discussing how its attracting customer and even one site (grand strategy.com) claim it has the prospect of 1500 sell just to replace the mig and f-4 series fighter from different countries ! its seems peculiar me how china can tell to sell it after 10 years when every one will start or have finished replacing their 4th generation fighter . or shpuld we think it has the potential to cut the j-10 selling thats why china has place this condition .