Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[My-Analogous]

This deal cover all we lost for our JF17 procurement delays. Its cover around one to one and a half year of production JF17 production

 

[Abingdonboy]

I do not believe in magic, which means that nations do not suddenly get strong or week. I see some people believe on those lines, also we give too much importance to US influence and its changing intentions. Even when we were not in good terms with US and we were not that economically better we were still doing alright. Currently we are better than what we were in past, so I think the balance will not change much. Additionally, we are in recovery mode trying to consolidate. So when economy takes a turn you will see balance tilting back in India's favor.

In short India has gained a lot in last 2 decades and gains don't just get washed away, we also have our levers we can press. At the same time Pakistan has taken considerable damage in last decade and their is no way to magically change things.

Last, while people talk about having weapons etc, what they miss is war needs a lot of money and that is something that Pakistan does not have, having few more types of weapons does not matter when you do not have the economy to back the war. I see a lot of people here talk about raining missiles without realizing how much it takes to sponsor such a rain.

The reason Indians are not big fan of war is because they know that the cost of war is paid for many years, the cost of 71 war is still paid by us.

I am at an utter lose at this seemingly prevailing mindset that India has somehow "lost" its superior position of late. Nothing has changed as far as India's military is concerned, they still have the clear edge on the Pak Mil and are extending their superiority year on year. Let's talk brass tacks- the IAF's M2K and MiG-29UPG fleet are enough both in quality and quantity to take on the entire PAF F-16 fleet with change, this si before we even factor in the 150+ MKI fleet that is expanding year on year and will eventually see some 300 MKI fighters in service, a machine the PAF (let's be honest) has no answer to. Coming to the point about the US, yes DIPLOMATIC ties were strained because of all that nonsense last year but military-miitary engagement was left unaffected, US and Indian Mil took part in exercises during that time and will continue to at a higher rate. This has been echoed by military brass on both sides. And if the US is serious about their "Asian pivot" they can't afford to "drop" India. Even if they did, India wasn't making itself dependant on the US, they are still perusing their own path.

 

[Assault Rifle]

Only source is News International & other websites like DU & The diplomat also quoting NewsInt.

Nothing on Express Tribune or DAWN.

Remember same NewsInternational also reported fake news that VK Singh accepted Indian involvement in Balochistan.

 

[Manticore]

poland isnt buying more f16s - potential future f16 seller?
Poland to purchase 64 new 5th gen fighters between 2020 and 2030

 

[farhan_9909]

Only source is News International & other websites like DU & The diplomat also quoting NewsInt.

Nothing on Express Tribune or DAWN.

Remember same NewsInternational also reported fake news that VK Singh accepted Indian involvement in Balochistan.

Confirmed by Alan warnes to a pakdef(not pdf) guy in twitter

 

[khanasifm]

Feb 19/14: +13 Jordanian. Pakistani media report that the government has inked a deal with Jordan for 12 used F-16As and 1 F-16B:

“With this, the strength of PAF F-16s will reach 76…. The deal… has been authenticated by the manufacturing company and the US government has also given its nod for the sale/purchase of the planes. Well-placed defence sources told The News here the other day that the purchased aircraft were in good condition…. have been modified into Air Defence Fighters (ADF) versions. The Ogden Air Logistics Centre performed structural upgrades to extend the aircraft life from the designed 4,000 to 8,000 hours flying time as part of the programme. They also modified the aircraft engine bay for the upgraded Pratt and Whitney F100-220E engine”

The RJAF does fly F-16 MLUs bought second-hand from Belgium and the Netherlands, but this set being sold is from the 33-plane Peace Falcon I/II purchases of F-16 ADFs in 1997 and 2003. The F-16 ADF variant is actually the F-16 Block 15OCU, which added the more reliable F100-PW-220 turbofan, structural strengthening, an enlarged HUD, and provisions for the radar-guided AIM-120 AMRAAM missile. F-16 ADFs retain the AN/APG-66 radar, which has been supplanted by APG-68 models in subsequent variants and in Pakistan’s upgraded fighters. ADFs have some precision ground attack capability using the AGM-65 Maverick missile, but would be well behind Pakistan’s 18 new Block 52s, or the PAF’s roughly 40 existing Block 15 fighters that were upgraded to a similar standard under the programs above.

Barring upgrades, the best use for F-16 ADFs is as interceptor and air superiority fighters. Recall, however, that the DSCA request for MLU & Falcon STAR kits had a maximum of 60 aircraft, and that these kits wouldn’t be needed for the new F-16C/D Block 52s. Pakistan could order 13 more upgrade kits for these aircraft, and still be within its allotted FMS total.

The deal leaves the Royal Jordanian Air Force with 43-46 front-line F-16AM/BM MLU Block 20 fighters, and 15-18 F-16A/B Block 15 ADFs, of 79 purchased. Not only do they make some money with this sale, they also cut down on the number of RJAF F-16 ADFs that will need expensive mid-life upgrades. At least 2 of the F-16 ADFs have been lost in accidents, and their 5th and most recent F-16 accident took place on Jan 29/14

. Sources: Pakistan’s The News International, “PAF acquires F-16s from Jordan”.

 

[Viper0011.]

poland isnt buying more f16s - potential future f16 seller?
Poland to purchase 64 new 5th gen fighters between 2020 and 2030

I hope you guys won't make the same mistake like the past. In other words, stock up on F-16's when it will become obsolete. Just like you have F-7's and Mirages right now. In the past, India didn't have top line jets so it worked out to have Farmers, F-7 and older Mirages. Going forward, India is moving ahead with massive plans for 5th Gen and other top line jets like Rafale. So the PAF will need to have some deterrence in place. I know the financial situation and all. But strategy is a strategy and when you are arch enemies, you have got to keep up to some degree. I think a few squadrons of twin turbines and a couple of stealth in the next 5-7 years are a must have. Otherwise, the gap will go huge when India starts to get Rafale and T-50 types of jets

 

[VCheng]

I hope you guys won't make the same mistake like the past. In other words, stock up on F-16's when it will become obsolete. Just like you have F-7's and Mirages right now. In the past, India didn't have top line jets so it worked out to have Farmers, F-7 and older Mirages. Going forward, India is moving ahead with massive plans for 5th Gen and other top line jets like Rafale. So the PAF will need to have some deterrence in place. I know the financial situation and all. But strategy is a strategy and when you are arch enemies, you have got to keep up to some degree. I think a few squadrons of twin turbines and a couple of stealth in the next 5-7 years are a must have. Otherwise, the gap will go huge when India starts to get Rafale and T-50 types of jets

The solution lies in maintaining a credible nuclear deterrent and working on not being arch enemies, not in more warplanes.

 

[SQ8]

The solution lies in maintaining a credible nuclear deterrent and working on not being arch enemies, not in more warplanes.

A credible nuclear deterrent is not enough. The solution is in a leadership that is coherent...and a society that is stable and not explosive

 

[Hulk]

I am at an utter lose at this seemingly prevailing mindset that India has somehow "lost" its superior position of late. Nothing has changed as far as India's military is concerned, they still have the clear edge on the Pak Mil and are extending their superiority year on year. Let's talk brass tacks- the IAF's M2K and MiG-29UPG fleet are enough both in quality and quantity to take on the entire PAF F-16 fleet with change, this si before we even factor in the 150+ MKI fleet that is expanding year on year and will eventually see some 300 MKI fighters in service, a machine the PAF (let's be honest) has no answer to. Coming to the point about the US, yes DIPLOMATIC ties were strained because of all that nonsense last year but military-miitary engagement was left unaffected, US and Indian Mil took part in exercises during that time and will continue to at a higher rate. This has been echoed by military brass on both sides. And if the US is serious about their "Asian pivot" they can't afford to "drop" India. Even if they did, India wasn't making itself dependant on the US, they are still perusing their own path.

Dude I am saying same thing are you, however I was trying to point at some things that I see repeating. People think that suddenly a magic will happen and balance will tilt. I am just saying it does not work that way. Years of work cannot be undone by one masterstroke.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Dude I am saying same thing are you, however I was trying to point at some things that I see repeating. People think that suddenly a magic will happen and balance will tilt. I am just saying it does not work that way. Years of work cannot be undone by one masterstroke.

Yes but what masterstroke? 13 second hand F-16s??

 

[Hulk]

Yes but what masterstroke? 13 second hand F-16s??

Talking the idea in general and not this instance in particular, I got that feeling reading the thread. India has very good growth for 2 years, economic have their good and bad days but the progress we made in 2 decades is not going anywhere.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Talking the idea in general and not this instance in particular, I got that feeling reading the thread. India has very good growth for 2 years, economic have their good and bad days but the progress we made in 2 decades is not going anywhere.

Ah I see, you're talking about the general pessimism in India of late. Well that's natural I guess of the short-sighted idiots who breath today. One only needs to have a basic understanding of economics and the global finical crisis to understand what is going on not to mention google to see that India's mid to long term growth is looking nothing but healthy.

 

[VCheng]

A credible nuclear deterrent is not enough. The solution is in a leadership that is coherent...and a society that is stable and not explosive

That is why my advice is to create a coherent leadership and work to wards a stable society and not run after toys like these. They can always come later. The nuclear deterrent Pakistan presently has is certainly enough to keep its perceived arch enemy at bay. The real war is being fought internally (and I don't mean FATA).

 

[BATMAN]

Please do

Please, read my post # 304