Pakistan Bans Entry To Afghans Holding Visas For India

[xyxmt]

It's called the ladder of escalation -- it's a game of chicken but except that it is not simply children playing it.

This in itself is not an important event.

However if it part of a broader change in thinking about Afghans then yes -- it will have staying power much like the nuclear weapons program of Pakistan which survived successive governments or say the containment of communism by the west.

So the question is -- is this the new eat grass program by the Pakistani people?

if you are talking about the grass grown in Afghanistan then no, otherwise your this sentence makes no sense in this situation

Edited: the entire post did not make any sense in this context.

 

[pakistani342]

Although seems ideal but the point here is AF-PK confederation ?? We are loosing the relations what we have with each other .I wish it does happened but who and how it will be done.
I think GHQ just signalling the Afghanistan either Pakistan or India. If India, then Afghanistan is just like another state having no special favors. Harsh but truth.

Yes ... In the US:
the North invaded the South when the South succeeded from the American Union -- Many Southerns hated the the North for many generations -- today they are proud Americans.
If you read the US civil war history which happened not too far back in history -- the North devastated the South to get the South the surrender. Abraham Lincon knew how could not have an independent South that would be a headache and open to exploitation by foreign powers. So he too the costly step of defeating it.

Similarly I think Pakistanis have no option but to impose extreme costs on the Afghan elite. The common Afghan (the refugee in Pakistan) would gladly accept the Pakistani citizenship.

To me what makes sense is the continued, consistent containment of Afghanistan that will last decades -- for this insulation is needed to insulate Pakistan from Afghanistan. The costs are not trivial but very manageable I suspect. The costs can be offset by the reduced drug trade, reduced militancy, increased trade with China and India.

if you are talking about the grass grown in Afghanistan then no, otherwise your this sentence makes no sense in this situation

Edited: the entire post did not make any sense in this context.

Eating Grass as in Zulifar Bhutto said ... Pakistan will eat Grass but become a Nuclear Power

My submission is that the Afghan project needs to be treated as such -- a Strategic project with existential repercussions

Eating grass is not desired but the current order in Afghanistan cannot be allowed to continue -- it has proven itself treacherous.

Many historians and scholars have predicted that Afghanistan and Pakistan will eventually merge into one entity -- and I don't mean lal-topi-wala or Jurnail-Gul-sab.

You get your strategic depth -- you get diversity -- you get access to central asia -- your remove a weak exploitable neighborhood -- that union can be called Afghanistan if the Afghans want that ... but it also furthers Pakistan's aspirations for regional power status.

 

[xyxmt]

Eating Grass as in Zulifar Bhutto said ... Pakistan will eat Grass but become a Nuclear Power

My submission is that the Afghan project needs to be treated as such -- a Strategic project with existential repercussions

agreed, albeit not as resource intensive as getting nukes but just as important.

 

[pakistani342]

agreed, albeit not as resource intensive as getting nukes but just as important.

Well I have not seen or done a cursory calculation -- but yes -- if the cards are played right like they were with the nuclear journey -- it is very achievable.

You can see ISIS is only an evil actor trying to fill the vacuum these artificial boundaries lead to.

The confederation almost happened when Zahir Shah finally got his head out of his ***. I think even Daud Khan before he and his family were gunned down realized that a confederation might be the only solution (don't have a reference handy to the second assertion)

 

[untitled]

agreed, albeit not as resource intensive as getting nukes but just as important.

We have nukes but we have not got the brotherly love we expected from our western neighbors.

 

[pakistani342]

We have nukes but we have not got the brotherly love we expected from our western neighbors.

The Afghans are not stupid -- they are suffering for a temporary nation psychosis -- once the shell shock wears off as it will in a few years -- the Afghans will understand quickly what the balance sheets foretell.

Remember that today no political party in Pakistan has hostile language towards India in its platform. Pakistanis understand that Pakistan needs to have good relations with India -- how they get there is something that needs to be found out.

The Afghans will understand too -- and I suspect it will happen sooner than later.

It might start with debates with returning refugees from Pakistan who are accused of being ISI agents by the Afghan elite -- on how the Afghan's leadership's belligerence led to their miseries.

 

[Khan_21]

Yes ... In the US:
the North invaded the South when the South succeeded from the American Union -- Many Southerns hated the the North for many generations -- today they are proud Americans.
If you read the US civil war history which happened not too far back in history -- the North devastated the South to get the South the surrender. Abraham Lincon knew how could not have an independent South that would be a headache and open to exploitation by foreign powers. So he too the costly step of defeating it.

Similarly I think Pakistanis have no option but to impose extreme costs on the Afghan elite. The common Afghan (the refugee in Pakistan) would gladly accept the Pakistani citizenship.

To me what makes sense is the continued, consistent containment of Afghanistan that will last decades -- for this insulation is needed to insulate Pakistan from Afghanistan. The costs are not trivial but very manageable I suspect. The costs can be offset by the reduced drug trade, reduced militancy, increased trade with China and India.



Eating Grass as in Zulifar Bhutto said ... Pakistan will eat Grass but become a Nuclear Power

My submission is that the Afghan project needs to be treated as such -- a Strategic project with existential repercussions

Eating grass is not desired but the current order in Afghanistan cannot be allowed to continue -- it has proven itself treacherous.

Many historians and scholars have predicted that Afghanistan and Pakistan will eventually merge into one entity -- and I don't mean lal-topi-wala or Jurnail-Gul-sab.

You get your strategic depth -- you get diversity -- you get access to central asia -- your remove a weak exploitable neighborhood -- that union can be called Afghanistan if the Afghans want that ... but it also furthers Pakistan's aspirations for regional power status.

There are many difficulties regarding a federation . First is that place is so backward it will take us forever to bring them to our level . If $ 100 billion dollar from America couldn't improve anything what makes you think we can? they are corrupt to the core and keep on fighting with each other .

What makes you think 200 million Pakistani's will be okay with the name Afghanistan ?

 

[H!TchHiker]

Well I have not seen or done a cursory calculation -- but yes -- if the cards are played right like they were with the nuclear journey -- it is very achievable.

You can see ISIS is only an evil actor trying to fill the vacuum these artificial boundaries lead to.

The confederation almost happened when Zahir Shah finally got his head out of his ***. I think even Daud Khan before he and his family were gunned down realized that a confederation might be the only solution (don't have a reference handy to the second assertion)

The problem is from where we get another ZAB to execute this .The most active and influential prime minister on external affairs matters i believe we had.

 

[pakistani342]

The problem is from where we get another ZAB to execute this .The most active and influential prime minister on external affairs matters i believe we had.

you have answer your own question -- you do not need a ZAB -- you need policy continuity and institution buy in.

Zia hanged Bhutto but keep the Nuclear program going. Both Benazir and Takla-Lohar fought like cats and dogs over power but the nuclear program remained unaffected.

----

You need a system for Afghan containment not heroes or messiahs or Jurnail-Raheels

---

What the evidence seems to suggest (and I have no special knowledge) -- is that the incompetent, corrupt lethargic Pakistani state machinery may have converged on such a plan and system vis-a-vis Afghanistan.

 

[H!TchHiker]

you have answer your own question -- you do not need a ZAB -- you need policy continuity and institution buy in.

Zia hanged Bhutto but keep the Nuclear program going. Both Benazir and Takla-Lohar fought like cats and dogs over power but the nuclear program remained unaffected.

----

You need a system for Afghan containment not heroes or messiahs or Jurnail-Raheels

---

What the evidence seems to suggest (and I have no special knowledge) -- is that the incompetent, corrupt lethargic Pakistani state machinery may have converged on such a plan and system vis-a-vis Afghanistan.

----
I believe this is the only viable and ultimate solution

 

[tore]

Well India is offering free visas, the price of tickets has gone down, the quality of medical care is far better so I am at loss why those who can fly will go to Pakistan. Those who can't afford flights will use ground routes to come to Pakistan.

Bottom line you and I my friend will see more hostility and in turn we will blame each other and still be laughin stock of the rest of the world.

Plain stupidity .



I think you have summarized it well in a another thread, we are both idiots ( no offense). At the end of the day we will have the next generation at each other's throats while we can't run away simply being neighbours.

Afghanistan will have to and eventually find alternative routes but the hatred between us and you will be here to stay.

Stupidity.

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So go to India, dont come to Pakistan. After all India is your friend.

 

[Mo12]

Other countries are doing a lot worse than this in the name of national security.

If Trump can announce the ban of Muslims coming to the US with thunderous applause why can't we deny entry to undesirables. Plus we are not even discriminating on the basis of religion

Yes but if they are coming to get medical help, then Pakistan should be ashamed and taken to international court

 

[Mitro]

Indian are training afghan terrorist who are killing innocent people in Pakistan and want to sabotage Cpec good move .

 

[Shakuni & Ravan]

What will happen if india bans pakistani patients.Difference between india and pakistan

 

[untitled]

Yes but if they are coming to get medical help, then Pakistan should be ashamed and taken to international court

You can not take a country to Court for denying entry to foreigners. Especially if they hold a visa to a better country like India