Pakistan Army - AIR DEFENCE CORPS - Formation, Structure, Weapons

[bananarepublic]

I heard that we were developing our own Medium Range Air defense, mostly on this forum.
Isn't it counterproductive that we are acquiring numerous Air defense system that might overlap our "domestic project".
Or maybe the army knows that the project has a long way to go before it is ready that is why we are acquiring from abroad.

 

[Gryphon]

I heard that we were developing our own Medium Range Air defense, mostly on this forum.
Isn't it counterproductive that we are acquiring numerous Air defense system that might overlap our "domestic project".
Or maybe the army knows that the project has a long way to go before it is ready that is why we are acquiring from abroad.

The indigenous SAM is said to be a Navy-oriented project, lets see what comes out of it.

Regarding numerous AD systems, LY-80 and FM-90 are mostly with regiments subordinate to Air Defence Divisions. Defend sensitive sites.

The Armoured/Mechanized Div's make do with MANPADS equipped APCs - limited capability considering the enemy's potential to employ AGMs & CBU-105s against PA armour. Something the Pantsir is being sought for.

 

[nomi007]

Pak army has to adopt an affordable long-range Sam system,
base on Pl-12 & Pl-15 missiles.

 

[notorious_eagle]

I think an MoDP official told TASS that there's interest in the FD-2000. IMO they're past evaluating that system -- likely at the stage of trying to secure funding to buy 3-4 batteries.

The really interesting thing to see is whether the FD-2000 is an Army-only acquisition (since it can seamlessly link those with its mostly Chinese ADGE), or if the PAF and PN will follow. I wonder if the PAF might look to acquire the CAMM-ER and/or SAMP/T instead.

I know for a fact that Pakistan received/deployed a variant of HQ-9(likely FD2000) batteries post the Mumbai attacks to protect high value assets along with C602 which were deployed along the coast.

I am curious to see if we returned them back or not. I know that PAF has had a requirement for a high altitude SAM for quite some time and the numbers deployed Post Mumbai were simply not enough to cover all the critical infrastructure. An acquisition such as FD2000 is likely going to be absorbed by PAF as we get the most bang for the buck when its integrated into PAF's extremely impressive C4I.

 

[Robbie]

I think an MoDP official told TASS that there's interest in the FD-2000. IMO they're past evaluating that system -- likely at the stage of trying to secure funding to buy 3-4 batteries.

The really interesting thing to see is whether the FD-2000 is an Army-only acquisition (since it can seamlessly link those with its mostly Chinese ADGE), or if the PAF and PN will follow. I wonder if the PAF might look to acquire the CAMM-ER and/or SAMP/T instead.

I know for a fact that Pakistan received/deployed a variant of HQ-9(likely FD2000) batteries post the Mumbai attacks to protect high value assets along with C602 which were deployed along the coast.

I am curious to see if we returned them back or not. I know that PAF has had a requirement for a high altitude SAM for quite some time and the numbers deployed Post Mumbai were simply not enough to cover all the critical infrastructure. An acquisition such as FD2000 is likely going to be absorbed by PAF as we get the most bang for the buck when its integrated into PAF's extremely impressive C4I.

The big question in this is whether there is any budget left or not. In most countries around the world, COVID has destroyed defense budgets. Any contract not already signed will likely not be signed for many years going forward.

India has already imposed a defense budget cut of 60% and it might be higher going forward. This will be harder in Pakistan, as the Army's political power means it has first right on resources, but I would expect that there is no way that Pakistan's defense budget goes unscathed. Do you think the budget will allow high capex projects going forward?

 

[TsAr]

The big question in this is whether there is any budget left or not. In most countries around the world, COVID has destroyed defense budgets. Any contract not already signed will likely not be signed for many years going forward.

India has already imposed a defense budget cut of 60% and it might be higher going forward. This will be harder in Pakistan, as the Army's political power means it has first right on resources, but I would expect that there is no way that Pakistan's defense budget goes unscathed. Do you think the budget will allow high capex projects going forward?

Are you share India has imposed a cut of 60% on defense budget? Are they not going to pay their army personnel.

 

[Robbie]

Are you share India has imposed a cut of 60% on defense budget? Are they not going to pay their army personnel.

Non-salary expenses. My apology, should have been clearer.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The big question in this is whether there is any budget left or not. In most countries around the world, COVID has destroyed defense budgets. Any contract not already signed will likely not be signed for many years going forward.

India has already imposed a defense budget cut of 60% and it might be higher going forward. This will be harder in Pakistan, as the Army's political power means it has first right on resources, but I would expect that there is no way that Pakistan's defense budget goes unscathed. Do you think the budget will allow high capex projects going forward?

IMO ... Anything we hear about moving forward was likely signed and (at least partly) paid for in 2018 or 2019.

So, we're probably not going to see net-new orders through 2020, 2021 and, possibly, 2022. Yes, the Pakistan Army has much more to draw on resource-wise (by tying itself into certain economic activities), so it'll probably guard the programs it has committed to as much as possible. But it's still an institution and, in turn, beholden to its own set of stakeholders who'll likely prefer spending in other areas (be it for directly benefiting armed forces people or even the general population, the latter is also possible, e.g., post Kashmir earthquake).

There are supply-side challenges too. I suspect more OEMs will temporarily pivot to COVID-related activities, while others might delay their existing order backlogs.

 

[notorious_eagle]

The big question in this is whether there is any budget left or not. In most countries around the world, COVID has destroyed defense budgets. Any contract not already signed will likely not be signed for many years going forward.

India has already imposed a defense budget cut of 60% and it might be higher going forward. This will be harder in Pakistan, as the Army's political power means it has first right on resources, but I would expect that there is no way that Pakistan's defense budget goes unscathed. Do you think the budget will allow high capex projects going forward?

As @Bilal Khan (Quwa) mentioned, Pantsir/FK-1000 have already been paid for in full two years ago i believe so that's not exactly a new purchase.

Majority of the CAPEX heavy projects by the Armed Forces that were in the pipeline have been put on hold. Only critical projects such as the likes of JF-17 Block 3 are being funded fully. Even vendor payments for people like myself are not being paid out in full and they have asked for an extension of 60 days . F*** them

 

[Cookie Monster]

I know for a fact that Pakistan received/deployed a variant of HQ-9(likely FD2000) batteries post the Mumbai attacks to protect high value assets along with C602 which were deployed along the coast.

I am curious to see if we returned them back or not. I know that PAF has had a requirement for a high altitude SAM for quite some time and the numbers deployed Post Mumbai were simply not enough to cover all the critical infrastructure. An acquisition such as FD2000 is likely going to be absorbed by PAF as we get the most bang for the buck when its integrated into PAF's extremely impressive C4I.

My question is slightly off topic...
We have been hearing for quite some time(and saw in Feb last year) about the net centric capability that PAF has built up over the years...

My question is...is PA and PN also going(or have already gone) that route?

 

[notorious_eagle]

My question is slightly off topic...
We have been hearing for quite some time(and saw in Feb last year) about the net centric capability that PAF has built up over the years...

My question is...is PA and PN also going(or have already gone) that route?

Yes, already being worked on. Most of the work on Army's side is done. PN needs a bit of kick i must say.

 

[CHI RULES]

Pak army has to adopt an affordable long-range Sam system,
base on Pl-12 & Pl-15 missiles.

Sir PL15 may be but PL-12 with A2A range of 100KM perhaps can't be changed into LRSAM as it's maximum range shall be 50 KM or some more if considered in SAM role. But a long range credible SAM is need for Pak.

 

[bananarepublic]

The indigenous SAM is said to be a Navy-oriented project, lets see what comes out of it.

Regarding numerous AD systems, LY-80 and FM-90 are mostly with regiments subordinate to Air Defence Divisions. Defend sensitive sites.

The Armoured/Mechanized Div's make do with MANPADS equipped APCs - limited capability considering the enemy's potential to employ AGMs & CBU-105s against PA armour. Something the Pantsir is being sought for.

So the Navy has already developed its indigenous offensive capabilities i.e Harba,Zarb,C802 and baber
It is working on an indigenous defensive capabilities i.e air defense.
It has established various institutions for radar and other much needed technology
It is working with the turks in developing indigenous warship design and manufacturing.

Compared to air force and navy ambitious projects the Army seems to be slacking a bit.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Yes, already being worked on. Most of the work on Army's side is done. PN needs a bit of kick i must say.

I'm surprised...I was expecting PN to already have the capability considering the recent numerous acquisitions on many fronts...
new subs, upgraded Agostas, new corvettes and frigates, ATR72 MPAs, ongoing in house project of converting a commercial airliner into an MPA, coastal batteries, etc. It was the perfect opportunity to link everything up.

 

[notorious_eagle]

I'm surprised...I was expecting PN to already have the capability considering the recent numerous acquisitions on many fronts...
new subs, upgraded Agostas, new corvettes and frigates, ATR72 MPAs, ongoing in house project of converting a commercial airliner into an MPA, coastal batteries, etc. It was the perfect opportunity to link everything up.

Work is in progress, its not as fast as we would have hoped it too be. The Turks have been a great help in this. They will be fully net-centric very soon. The good thing is, all three branches are working together on the concept of Joint Command (similar to the US) so information between all three services will be shared.