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Pakistan and Israel

brother captain america, are you by any chance comparing palestine and uzbeks issues ?
whats happening in palestine is being done by state of israel,sponsored by govt of israel.*

in kyrghztan its being done by set of people, and govt is trying to stop it

can u spot the difference ? i dont think you cant :)*

Regards,
Junaid

*

What about what Saddam did to the Kurds or Irans goverment is doing the the Iranian People. I am just curious as if all this outrage is based on being morally compassionate for people or is the result of premitive and backward religious bigotry and racism. I dont see any concern for the hundreds of thousands of jews that were driven from Islamic Countries over the last 70 years.

http://www.meforum.org/263/why-jews-fled-the-arab-countries
 
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India can not sign a pact with Israel,,if she does,,,then 20000000 muslims in india will kick india's *** so we dont need to worry about india then. Including whole muslim world..

India has an extremely good relationship with Israel based on trade...I think it was 9 billion last year alone.

India even sends up Israeli spy satellites. In India as a democracy the majority makes policies and it is not based on religion.
 
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Is Pakistan like Israel?

By Khaled Ahmed

June 13, 2010

The writer is a director at the South Asia Free Media Association, Lahore (khaled.ahmed@tribune.com.pk)

Ayesha Siddiqa in her June 6 column in The Express Tribune made a very interesting comparison between Pakistan and Israel: both were supposedly formed on the basis of religion, both are national security states with illegal nukes and are internationally isolated. The comparison is favourable to neither. There are minor differences, however.

Pakistan has a constitution which says it is a religious state. Israel doesn’t have a constitution, so its legal status is undecided. But were the two demanded in the name of religion? It is not certain.
The only document that lays out the nature of the Israeli state is proclamation of Madinat Yisrael of 1948. (State in Hebrew is madina!) This is the proclamation about the foundation of the state. It speaks of Israel as a homeland of all Jews. It says the values of the state of Israel will be based on the teachings of the Hebrew Prophets.

The Proclamation of Independence, read over the radio by Prime Minister Ben Gurion in 1948, is controversial in Israel. But the truth is that secular Israelis would not sign it if it contained the name of God. Prime Minister Ben Gurion, whose secularism and left-leaning thinking prevented the rightwing “observing” Jews from coming to power till 1977, did not allow the word ‘God’ in the Proclamation.

“Non-observing” Jews founded Israel while the orthodox Jews opposed it. A constitution would have clearly defined the ideology of Israel, but no agreement exists so far on such a constitution.
In the case of Pakistan, partially “observing” but non-clerical Muslims founded the state. A majority of the clerical parties rejected Pakistan just as most orthodox Jews were to reject the Herzl-Gurion enterprise called Israel.

Like Ben Gurion, Jinnah did not want a religious state. When he spoke about the nature of the state on 11 Aug 1948 three days before its actual coming into being, he described it as a secular state. After his death in 1948, his successors thought of defining the state in Islamic terms.

In the case of Israel, this did not happen. The Labour “socialists” dominated Israel till 1977. Ben Gurion hated Menachim Begin, the founder of right-wing Likud. If he had had his way, Israel would not have continued to occupy the lands it conquered in 1967.

One can say that Israel is still secular because of its 40 per cent Ashkenazi European-Jewish population. Judaism has a sharia abandoned by the European Jews in the 17th century. When it came, Islam did not follow the Pauline-Christian rejection of the Sharia. The Mishnaic-Talmudic “parallel” authority is comparable to the authority of Hadith.

Pakistan wrote up its Objectives Resolution in 1949 after Jinnah’s death. It mentioned God in it, which later became Allah. It allowed the non-Muslim minorities to practise their religion “freely”, but when the resolution appeared inside the constitution in 1985, “freely” disappeared from the text without due notification. (It has been reinstated by the 18th amendment in 2010.)

Like Pakistan, Israel also treats its minorities badly. Mullahs in Pakistan and rabbis in Israel wield power, because of ideology in the case of Pakistan, and proportional representation in the case of Israel. Unlike Pakistan, Israel invited “all Jews of the world” to Israel.
Quite brainlessly, it was proclaimed that Pakistan was made up of letters indicating the regions contained in it. It contained Kashmir but not East Bengal. The first it never got and the second it lost in 1971.
Israel too was named all wrong.

The name of the Jewish state under the prophet-king David was Judea. Israel in the Bible was in fact a renegade state destroyed for its evil in 722 BC. In rabbinic translation, the name Israel means wrestling with God. In Arabic too if you write “sara’” with “suad” instead of “seen”, it means wrestling.

Published in the Express Tribune, June 13th, 2010.
 
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BTW who gave u the right to decide on behalf of the Indian Muslims..?..btw its not 20 mil ..its abt 130 mils....Get ur facts straight.

Sorry i missed one zero,,,And let you clear that muslims have a population around 200 millions...
No i dont have a right for muslims in india but when in the case of israelis when you joined them against Islam,,,then definitely it will become their problem thats my opinion..
Hope time will tell you...
Or may be you will not go With Zionists..
Sorry I used word Israel,,,I dont have a issue with Israelis,,,Its zionists..
But one thing for sure Israeli state should be settled in Europe or in america or may be in australia or africa,,,but not in palestine...
They came from various countries to occupied palestine..
I still can allowed them to be settled there when they accept Palestine as a state and give them independence...
But they want greater Israel which is stretched from River Nile to syria and from Meditterranian to west of Saudia,,,Under which they want to rule syria, jordan, west of Arabia and egypt and it will happen...
 
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What about what Saddam did to the Kurds or Irans goverment is doing the the Iranian People. I am just curious as if all this outrage is based on being morally compassionate for people or is the result of premitive and backward religious bigotry and racism. I dont see any concern for the hundreds of thousands of jews that were driven from Islamic Countries over the last 70 years.

Why Jews Fled the Arab Countries :: Middle East Quarterly

brother, let me give you a simple example...
I went for prayers in Masjid, my shoes got stolen, now what should I do now ? my shoes are stolen, I am a victim, I need to get home..
but can I steal a shoe and go home ? NO

Palestinians are victims of Victims..if you were raped, it doesn't give you right to rape others...

look at the bigger picture and try to understand the scenario...
don't pick examples from last one or two decades...please have more memory than last 20 years...

No one collaborated with Saddam when he was carrying out massacre of kurds, in the world we live in, the least you can do is: NOT to support the aggressor...but you are trying to justify Israel's inhuman acts by pointing out silence sustained by flawed leaders of muslim countries...you argument is weak since your premise is invalid....

Kurds are different issue altogether, United Kingdom occupied Iraq twice and many times placed pro-UK govt but they left Kurds with no country,they could have carved out an area for them and declared independence of Kurd region, just like NOW USA+NATO has done after destroying Iraq.

Please stick to Pakistan and Israel, we can have another thread related to Kurds,IRAQ,Invasion of Iraq...
 
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What about what Saddam did to the Kurds or Irans goverment is doing the the Iranian People. I am just curious as if all this outrage is based on being morally compassionate for people or is the result of premitive and backward religious bigotry and racism. I dont see any concern for the hundreds of thousands of jews that were driven from Islamic Countries over the last 70 years.

Why Jews Fled the Arab Countries :: Middle East Quarterly

Saddam was a crazy basterd,,,but he wasn't kiled by americans just because he killed Kurds,, he didnt even attacked america nor he had a WMDS...He was Slaughtered due to the facts that he wanted to trade their oil companies with all states in EURO which results america to be collapsed economicalyy..Remember trade in oil Is in $$
So it definitely matters for CIA and offcourse Zionists who ruled america for the past centuries...
Iranian govt doing great for their peolple you are living in world where CNN,BBC,Fox and other biased and calculated and Drivened by CIA media groups shows you,,,wake up...I dont know when these americans will awake,,time will near in th future...
 
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What about what Saddam did to the Kurds or Irans goverment is doing the the Iranian People. I am just curious as if all this outrage is based on being morally compassionate for people or is the result of premitive and backward religious bigotry and racism. I dont see any concern for the hundreds of thousands of jews that were driven from Islamic Countries over the last 70 years.

Why Jews Fled the Arab Countries :: Middle East Quarterly

Where was america when saddam slaughters hundreds of Kurds??? it was the time when they need him(Saddam) against Iran and wanted to occupy kuwait so they supports Saddam..
Do you know why they supports Kurds because they want a state of kurds which results in to divide Turkey...
Thats their plan.
 
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India has an extremely good relationship with Israel based on trade...I think it was 9 billion last year alone.

India even sends up Israeli spy satellites. In India as a democracy the majority makes policies and it is not based on religion.

Yes India has???
But what i m saying that india can not signed a defense pact where india will and should support Israel when israel goes in a war against muslims or arabs..
If india does then whole muslim world against them like istraelis..
Thats my point..
 
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India has an extremely good relationship with Israel based on trade...I think it was 9 billion last year alone.

India even sends up Israeli spy satellites. In India as a democracy the majority makes policies and it is not based on religion.

Hmmm,,
So you are indian with american flag..
:cheers:
 
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Yes India has???
But what i m saying that india can not signed a defense pact where india will and should support Israel when israel goes in a war against muslims or arabs..
If india does then whole muslim world against them like istraelis..
Thats my point..

It does not serve India's interest to fight wars for Israel...nor can Israel help India in any meaningful way in any military conflict so the question of a defense pact does not arise. That does not mean India will support any Arabs against Israel either.That is not in India's interest either. Israeli-Arab conflict is not India's business so basically India does not care whether one slaughters the other.

---------- Post added at 11:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------

Hmmm,,
So you are indian with american flag..
:cheers:

I am an American of Indian origin...you can put it that way.
 
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Saddam was a crazy basterd,,,but he wasn't kiled by americans just because he killed Kurds,, he didnt even attacked america nor he had a WMDS...He was Slaughtered due to the facts that he wanted to trade their oil companies with all states in EURO which results america to be collapsed economicalyy..Remember trade in oil Is in $$
So it definitely matters for CIA and offcourse Zionists who ruled america for the past centuries...
Iranian govt doing great for their peolple you are living in world where CNN,BBC,Fox and other biased and calculated and Drivened by CIA media groups shows you,,,wake up...I dont know when these americans will awake,,time will near in th future...

Did you ever read this speech by Musharraf

By Zaffar Abbas in Islamabad



Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has said Islamic countries will remain backward unless they concentrate more on scientific and technological development.

Muslim nations are internally involved in fratricidal conflicts and perceived by the outside world as terrorists with little attention being given on their uplift, he said.




Today we are the poorest, the most illiterate, the most backward, the most unhealthy, the most un-enlightened, the most deprived, and the weakest of all the human race

President Musharraf
General Musharraf made his comments in an address to a conference of science and technology attended by ministers from Muslim countries.
President Musharraf said the time had come for Islamic nations to take part in collective self-criticism.

Once such an assessment is made, it would not be difficult to realise that the entire Islamic world was far behind the developed world, he argued.

'The most unhealthy'

The Muslim Ummah, or the Islamic world, he said was presently living in darkness.

"Today we are the poorest, the most illiterate, the most backward, the most unhealthy, the most un-enlightened, the most deprived, and the weakest of all the human race," he told the delegates.



Musharraf wants to rid Pakistan of extremism

President Musharraf then made a comparison of the economic growth in Islamic countries with some developed countries.

While the collective Gross National Product of the all Muslim countries stands at $1,200bn, that of Germany alone is $2,500bn and that of Japan $5,500bn.

He said one of the main reasons for this disparity was that none of the Muslim countries had ever paid any attention to educational and scientific development.

He asked the countries participating in the conference to concentrate on scientific and technological development in order to compete with the developed world.

The real jihad

The Pakistani leader suggested the setting up of a multi-billion dollar fund for such a purpose.

Beside this, he said, there was a need for creating centres of excellence in the field of science and technology.

He also called for the creation of scholarships for young scientists to seek knowledge from universities in developed countries.

President Musharraf described it as the real jihad, or holy war.

Unless this was done, the Islamic world and Muslims would always be perceived as backward, illiterate - those who only indulge in extremism and violence.


BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Musharraf berates Muslim world
and you think its time for the USA to wake up.
 
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i agree with what General (retd.) Musharraf said at that conference 1000%



.....



and what is the relevance here?
 
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It does not serve India's interest to fight wars for Israel...nor can Israel help India in any meaningful way in any military conflict so the question of a defense pact does not arise. That does not mean India will support any Arabs against Israel either.That is not in India's interest either. Israeli-Arab conflict is not India's business so basically India does not care whether one slaughters the other.


I am not very sure about what you said, infact Israel's ambassador to India might also not agree with you. Here is what he had to say about helping each other out during war.

www.outlookindia.com | 'The Secret Part Of Indo-Israel Defence Ties Will Remain A Secret'

Certain issues between countries do need to remain under wraps for whatever reason. I don't think the Indian authorities would be happy if we were to discuss in public. We have a burgeoning relationship and the defence relationship got a major boost during Kargil, when Israel came to India's assistance when India was in great need and brought about the turnaround in the situation on the ground. I think we proved then to Indian government that you can rely on us that we have the wherewithal. A friend in need is a friend indeed. I have been in India for four months and I hear a great deal of respect for Israel also on non-defence issues--agriculture, drip irrigation, high-tech. There is a groundswell of goodwill towards Israel among the Indian people.
Defence relationships between countries are generally secret and they should be. Certain facts are on the table but we don't make a noise about things.


It is widely believed that Israel atleast provided India with spy satalite pictures of the location of the enemy up on the mountains. There could be much more but one can only speculate, whats confirm is that it was substantial enough to get India out of the hole.
 
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I am not very sure about what you said, infact Israel's ambassador to India might also not agree with you. Here is what he had to say about helping each other out during war.

www.outlookindia.com | 'The Secret Part Of Indo-Israel Defence Ties Will Remain A Secret'

Certain issues between countries do need to remain under wraps for whatever reason. I don't think the Indian authorities would be happy if we were to discuss in public. We have a burgeoning relationship and the defence relationship got a major boost during Kargil, when Israel came to India's assistance when India was in great need and brought about the turnaround in the situation on the ground. I think we proved then to Indian government that you can rely on us that we have the wherewithal. A friend in need is a friend indeed. I have been in India for four months and I hear a great deal of respect for Israel also on non-defence issues--agriculture, drip irrigation, high-tech. There is a groundswell of goodwill towards Israel among the Indian people.
Defence relationships between countries are generally secret and they should be. Certain facts are on the table but we don't make a noise about things.


It is widely believed that Israel atleast provided India with spy satalite pictures of the location of the enemy up on the mountains. There could be much more but one can only speculate, whats confirm is that it was substantial enough to get India out of the hole.

Well if that is the criteria then India should already be in a defense pact with Russia who helped India in each and every war she has fought.This is a lot different from being in a NATO like pact with Israel.
Any Israeli help in Kargil has been well rewarded with billions of dollars of trade in the last decade.
 
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