Pakistan Air Force Transport

[FuturePAF]

Should The PAF in conjunction with the Navy and PIA considering going in for a large fleet of Airbus 220.

It is powered by the most efficient engines currently on the market. Also, currently it comes in two variants -100 and -300 with -500 under consideration. For the Air force and the navy, depending on the mission, it can be used as a Tanker, Transport, AWACS, MPA, ISR Relay for Datalinks instead of satellites.

If acquired in a deal with PIA as they recapitalize their fleet in a new strategy that focuses on destinations within the 6000 km range of the planned -500 design, Pakistan could field a fleet of a common air frame and bring down the costs to implement, operate, and maintain all the special mission needs, while also being competitive in civil aviation.

Also by building on a civil airliner, the risks of sanctions go down, as the PIA side can supply spares in a time of emergency.

 

[hassan1]

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Should The PAF in conjunction with the Navy and PIA considering going in for a large fleet of Airbus 220.

It is powered by the most efficient engines currently on the market. Also, currently it comes in two variants -100 and -300 with -500 under consideration. For the Air force and the navy, depending on the mission, it can be used as a Tanker, Transport, AWACS, MPA, ISR Relay for Datalinks instead of satellites.

If acquired in a deal with PIA as they recapitalize their fleet in a new strategy that focuses on destinations within the 6000 km range of the planned -500 design, Pakistan could field a fleet of a common air frame and bring down the costs to implement, operate, and maintain all the special mission needs, while also being competitive in civil aviation.

Also by building on a civil airliner, the risks of sanctions go down, as the PIA side can supply spares in a time of emergency.

Cool idea, but aside from cost, it'd also depend on Airbus' willingness let Pakistan militarize their aircraft. Best case scenario, Airbus would want in our efforts, but that could spike the price (albeit at the cost of OEM expertise and support). But I like the idea, though A220 tanker might be limited to AAR over Pakistan only due to more limited fuel space, unless heavily modified where the freight area is turned into an extended fuel tank.

 

[Talon]

Peshawar

 

[FuturePAF]

Cool idea, but aside from cost, it'd also depend on Airbus' willingness let Pakistan militarize their aircraft. Best case scenario, Airbus would want in our efforts, but that could spike the price (albeit at the cost of OEM expertise and support). But I like the idea, though A220 tanker might be limited to AAR over Pakistan only due to more limited fuel space, unless heavily modified where the freight area is turned into an extended fuel tank.

For the Tanker the PAF could "purchase" (transfer) and convert some of the PIA's current A320s that would be replaced by the A220. It would look similar to the A310MRT. The goal should be a larger fleet of slightly smaller tankers (than the A330 MRTT or IL-78), such that more are available; for more areas of responsibility as well as to not lose too much capability in the event of one lost to hostile actions.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

For the Tanker the PAF could "purchase" (transfer) and convert some of the PIA's current A320s that would be replaced by the A220. It would look similar to the A310MRT. The goal should be a larger fleet of slightly smaller tankers, such that more are available; for more areas of responsibility as well as to not lose to much capability in the event of one lost to hostile actions.

I'd run a similar idea, but with the larger A330. Basically, the PAF can go to the open market and buy second-hand A330s and then modify them into tankers. They probably won't be able to get the boom configuration (for F-16s), but with Ukraine's help, they might be able to fit UPAZ hose-and-drogue pods to the wings.

I don't think it would cost much more than modifying A320s (even in higher numbers), but you can support more fighters per sortie with the larger aircraft.

 

[FuturePAF]

I'd run a similar idea, but with the larger A330. Basically, the PAF can go to the open market and buy second-hand A330s and then modify them into tankers. They probably won't be able to get the boom configuration (for F-16s), but with Ukraine's help, they might be able to fit UPAZ hose-and-drogue pods to the wings.

I don't think it would cost much more than modifying A320s (even in higher numbers), but you can support more fighters per sortie with the larger aircraft.

The A330MRTT is also a great option, but buying used A330s and going for a Ukrainian option would be the best of both worlds. It all comes down to Balancing Cost to procure the numbers we need and the Fuel Capacity required (based on the mission profiles).

For our F-16s we can buy the Sargent Fletcher Aerial Refueling Tank/System (ART/S) pod or if in the future, the PAF is allowed to upgrade its F-16s, it can go for the confirmal fuel tank based system.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/disc...not-have-in-flight-refuelling-support.455035/

Conformal Aerial Refueling Tank System (CARTS) at Farnborough in 2010

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan is not a big country, the transport assets currently in its inventory are sufficient for its strategic and logistics need. Both Herks and MRTT aircraft are undergoing upgrades to extend their service life. What is required is forward planning to replace these aircraft in the mid to long term.

 

[Readerdefence]

Pakistan is not a big country, the transport assets currently in its inventory are sufficient for its strategic and logistics need. Both Herks and MRTT aircraft are undergoing upgrades to extend their service life. What is required is forward planning to replace these aircraft in the mid to long term.

Hi fatman17 how much it will cost paf to buy MRTT and is it possible to put on let’s say two squad of f16 with CFT instead of buying the whole packag of tanker and then maintaining them
As my thought is it will cost less to upgrade couple of squads with CFT instead of couple of tanker
Thank you

 

[fatman17]

Hi fatman17 how much it will cost paf to buy MRTT and is it possible to put on let’s say two squad of f16 with CFT instead of buying the whole packag of tanker and then maintaining them
As my thought is it will cost less to upgrade couple of squads with CFT instead of couple of tanker
Thank you

New transport aircraft are very expensive. Used transports are readily available subject to OEM country NOC. Pakistan should evaluate the Chinese and Russian transports for their future needs. They will be cheaper than western aircraft. I'm not sure if CFTs can be fitted on our F16 fleet other than the C/D models.

 

[MIRauf]

CFT mostly help the single plane unless used as refueling tanker , while MRTT can refuel many plus perform other task. For PAF using F-16 as refueling buddy is colossal miss use of extremely important asset if looked at it that way.

PS: The planes that need assist from MRTT or could get most use out of MRTT are JF-17 and M-III/V.

 

[time pass]

I'm not sure if CFTs can be fitted on our F16 fleet other than the C/D models.

Yup ..... Only on BLK 50/52s ...

CFT mostly help the single plane unless used as refueling tanker , while MRTT can refuel many plus perform other task. For PAF using F-16 as refueling buddy is colossal miss use of extremely important asset if looked at it that way.

PS: The planes that need assist from MRTT or could get most use out of MRTT are JF-17 and M-III/V.

CFT is now becoming an integral part with major players (we already seen CFTs on F16s/F15s/F18s) and there are rumors that Chinese are also working for J10s....

Basically, CFT free up 2 hard points for additional payloads which tactically gives you an added value...

 

[air marshal]

http://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-C-130E-Hercules/2372

 

[khanasifm]

The A330MRTT is also a great option, but buying used A330s and going for a Ukrainian option would be the best of both worlds. It all comes down to Balancing Cost to procure the numbers we need and the Fuel Capacity required (based on the mission profiles).

For our F-16s we can buy the Sargent Fletcher Aerial Refueling Tank/System (ART/S) pod or if in the future, the PAF is allowed to upgrade its F-16s, it can go for the confirmal fuel tank based system.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/disc...not-have-in-flight-refuelling-support.455035/

Conformal Aerial Refueling Tank System (CARTS) at Farnborough in 2010

Not a single air force has operationally deployed this solution unless o missed the news just trials and demos

 

[FuturePAF]

Not a single air force has operationally deployed this solution unless o missed the news just trials and demos

It need not be this Exact solution, but a CFT based system with a refueling probe should be considered if we change the doctrine to that of longer range strikes, such as over the water.
It all depends on the doctrine, and if the PAF finds this upgrade worthwhile.