Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[Maxpane]

Oh yes. It is routine. He has spent a good time at PAC.

ohh tjen fine . i thought msy be because of our neighbour

 

[Windjammer]

A Block-3 airframe has arrived at PAC Kamra in one of those large Russian Transporters.
Alas, we might see the bird in the Pakistan Day Parade.

 

[mingle]

A Block-3 airframe has arrived at PAC Kamra in one of those large Russian Transporters.
Alas, we might see the bird in the Pakistan Day Parade.

Any chance of Italian AESA for blk 3 this time???

 

[Nasr]

Any chance of Italian AESA for blk 3 this time???

You can finalize a design and components for a Block aircraft, commission it for serial production and then just willy nilly slap on an AESA radar from another country, can ya? Nope, no chance of an Italian, British or Kangaroo AESA radar on the Block-lll Thunder, at all!

 

[fatman17]

ASIA DEFENSE | SECURITY | SOUTH ASIA

Pakistan’s JF-17 Block III Fighter Jet Makes Maiden Flight

The single-seat fighter jet took to the skies for the first time last month.

Franz-Stefan Gady
By Franz-Stefan Gady
January 06, 2020

Pakistan’s JF-17 Block III Fighter Jet Makes Maiden Flight

Credit: Chinese Internet

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex/Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (PAC/CAC) JF-17 “Thunder” Block III multirole fighter aircraft conducted its maiden flight on December 15 in China’s southwestern province of Sichuan, according to Chinese social media reports.

The maiden flight of the JF-17 Block III prototype reportedly took place at CAIG’s production facility at Chengdu-Huangtianba. Images of the aircraft’s take off show the JF-17 Block III armed with PL-5EII short-range air-to-air-missiles (AAMs).

According to an analysis by Jane’s, the new aircraft features a couple of additions over previous systems including a new wide-angle holographic head-up display and a new imaging infrared (IIR)-based missile approach warning system.

While JF-17 Block I and II variants are reportedly powered by a Chinese license-built Klimov RD-93MA turbofan engine, the Block III version of the JF-17 are slated to receive the RD-93MA or Chinese WS-13 engine. As I explained elsewhere:

F-17 Block III fighters will apparently receive a new electronic warfare system, upgraded avionics including a three-axis fly-by-wire digital flight control system, a helmet-mounted display and sight system, and Pakistan’s first Chinese-made active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar system. Two such radar systems are currently under evaluation, according to the PAF Air Chief: the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology’s KLJ-7A radar and the Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute’s (LETRI) LKF601E.


Pakistan is reportedly also still considering Leonardo’s Grifo-E AESA radar system.

The aircraft is expected to operationally deploy with the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) this year. The service is reportedly looking to procure at least 50 JF-17 Block IIIs by 2024, according to the PAF Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan.

The first two aircraft have reportedly already entered production at the Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF) final assembly line at PAC Kamra.

“Production of subassemblies has already started for the first two 50 Block 3 aircraft, to be assembled next year, and will be followed by another 12 in 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024,” PAC chairman Air Marshall Ahmer Shahzad was quoted as saying by AINonline in 2019. “We will assemble eight dual-seaters this year, followed by 14 in 2020, and the remaining four in 2021.”

PAC and CAC purportedly have an annual production capability of about 25 JF-17 aircraft. As I noted previously:

PAC has reportedly been producing 58 percent of the JF-17s airframe and subsystems — the wings, horizontal tail, vertical tail, and forward fuselage — while CAC produces 42 percent of it including the mid- and rear- fuselages. The aircraft parts arrive from China in kit form for local assembly.

The JF-17 was chiefly designed to replace the PAF’s aging fleet of Chengdu F-7 and Dassault Mirage III/5 fighter jets.

AUTHORS
Franz-Stefan Gady
STAFF AUTHOR
Franz-Stefan Gady
Franz-Stefan Gady is a Senior Editor with The Diplomat. Follow him on Twitter.

 

[NA71]

Leonardo’s Grifo-E AESA is again popped up.... multiple articles hinting....

 

[khanasifm]

Leonardo’s Grifo-E AESA is again popped up.... multiple articles hinting....

With the integration faculty looks like now pac can go for any sub system and weapons integration ??

So the big question will be $$$ of equipment how much is Grifo vs other radar ?? And price vs performance gain ??

 

[PakFactor]

Leonardo’s Grifo-E AESA is again popped up.... multiple articles hinting....

From public info max range is 92km pointless having a short range radar if the Chinese radar offers a longer range.

 

[NA71]

I think we are going to have different batches of B3 with different AESAs fitted with. someone has already mentioned in previous posts. (B2s will be upgraded in similar fashion).

We are keeping B3 wide open for both Chinese as well as Western weapon systems.

 

[Tank131]

Any chance of Italian AESA for blk 3 this time???

Leonardo’s Grifo-E AESA is again popped up.... multiple articles hinting....

Actually the Grifo E-scan is fairly comparable to the KLJ-7A in range (detection for fighter sized aircraft is said to be >45-85NM or 157km vs 170km of the KLJ-7A. Tracking of saod fighter listed as >75NM or 139km). Additionally, leonardo is among the best producers of combat radars (see CAPTOR, RAVEN ES-05) and the radar can also be air or liquid cooled and utilizes GaN meaning it has low power consumption. It is the M-Scan Radar on M346 that has a 92km range.

The major issue however issue is armament. PAF has a huge cache of Chinese weapons and China's willingness to sell mire advanced weapons (see Pl-15 and Pl-10). Now of Italy can get a weapons package together for PAF there is a possibility but it would need to involve an HMD/S, Meteor, and ASRAAM/IRIS-T, and A2G munitions and allow integration of Pakistan's own weapons (RAAD, H2, H4 ect). Now they have allowed Pakistan to do so in the past (mirages), but that will need to continue. All of that would make it very expensive,so if this happens you would likely only see it on a small number of thunder (likely 2-3 elite squadrons). All of that is to say that the system overapl would need to perform as well as the chinese radars. Beyond this, the chinese radars could theoretically be fit into the blk 1 and 2 aircraft during an MLU and certain systems such as EW suits and HMD/S can be added with minimal cost. So theoretically you could get Chinese weapons for these and if European weapons are able to be sourced, get Grifo E for block 3 aircraft. Any such acquisition however would need to include other systems including brightcloud drfm, possibly skyward irst, and sale of CAMM-ER for airforce and naval use.

I think we are going to have different batches of B3 with different AESAs fitted with. someone has already mentioned in previous posts. (B2s will be upgraded in similar fashion).

We are keeping B3 wide open for both Chinese as well as Western weapon systems.

I hope to see the Chinese AESA used for MLU in the blk 1 and 2 aircraft given both can be air-cooled

 

[Tank131]

From public info max range is 92km pointless having a short range radar if the Chinese radar offers a longer range.

That is the Grifo-346 (Mscan) which has a 92km track but 111km detect range. It is the radar which the Grifo E-scan is based on. The E-scan has a at least 157km range (not far off the Chinese radars). They have a liquid cooled version and a smaller compact version which is air cooled.

https://www.leonardocompany.com/en/products/grifo-e

What i want to know is how the Grifo E stacks against vixen 1000E and Raven Es-05 which are also Selex/Leonardo systems.

 

[fatman17]

JF-17 Block III Fierce Dragon/Thunder

The first JF-17 Block III prototype (#3000) just returned to the CAC airfield from its maiden flight on December 15, 2019. As the latest variant of JF-17, Block III carries PAF's ambition to counter IAF's most powerful 3.5th generation fighter Rafale. The aircraft is expected to feature a more powerful engine (WS-13E? 9,000kg class), a new AESA radar developed by NETRI/14th Institute (KLJ-7A, range 170km, track 15, engage 4) or by the 607 Institute (LKF601E, air cooled), HMDS, IRST, upgraded EW suite, new datalink, full authority digital FBW and a variety of air-to-air and air-to-ground guided weapons including PL-10E IIR guided AAM as well as PL-15E active radar homing AAM (using twin launch rails). Additional hard points are installed including ones underneath the engine air intake for ECM or targeting pod. Images of the first flight indicated the JF-17 Block III prototype features a J-20 style narrow frame wide-angle holographic HUD (EHUD-2?), a slightly enlarged spine, and new forward MAWS sensors behind the engine air intakes. The rear MAWS sensors were relocated to the EW compartment on top of the vertical tail fin as well. Otherwise the overall aerodynamic configuration remains the unchanged and the aircraft is still powered by the original RD-93 engine.
- Last Updated 12/29/19

 

[Roller321321]

Why is the Rafale mentioned as a 3.5 gen fighter while usually we tend to hear 4.5 gen?

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Why is the Rafale mentioned as a 3.5 gen fighter while usually we tend to hear 4.5 gen?

Where???

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Actually the Grifo E-scan is fairly comparable to the KLJ-7A in range (detection for fighter sized aircraft is said to be >45-85NM or 157km vs 170km of the KLJ-7A. Tracking of saod fighter listed as >75NM or 139km). Additionally, leonardo is among the best producers of combat radars (see CAPTOR, RAVEN ES-05) and the radar can also be air or liquid cooled and utilizes GaN meaning it has low power consumption. It is the M-Scan Radar on M346 that has a 92km range.

The major issue however issue is armament. PAF has a huge cache of Chinese weapons and China's willingness to sell mire advanced weapons (see Pl-15 and Pl-10). Now of Italy can get a weapons package together for PAF there is a possibility but it would need to involve an HMD/S, Meteor, and ASRAAM/IRIS-T, and A2G munitions and allow integration of Pakistan's own weapons (RAAD, H2, H4 ect). Now they have allowed Pakistan to do so in the past (mirages), but that will need to continue. All of that would make it very expensive,so if this happens you would likely only see it on a small number of thunder (likely 2-3 elite squadrons). All of that is to say that the system overapl would need to perform as well as the chinese radars. Beyond this, the chinese radars could theoretically be fit into the blk 1 and 2 aircraft during an MLU and certain systems such as EW suits and HMD/S can be added with minimal cost. So theoretically you could get Chinese weapons for these and if European weapons are able to be sourced, get Grifo E for block 3 aircraft. Any such acquisition however would need to include other systems including brightcloud drfm, possibly skyward irst, and sale of CAMM-ER for airforce and naval use.



I hope to see the Chinese AESA used for MLU in the blk 1 and 2 aircraft given both can be air-cooled

Meteors are expensive