Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[Trailer23]

but manufacture wings for whom, aliens..no one is buying any more f16s by time its setup all of last orders will be fullfilled

Well, that is another debate...
But think about it. At one point, the F-16 was done for sure. Infact, the last F-16 that was built in Texas was meant to be for Iraq. Curtains. Or so we thought.

They moved the assembly line to South Carolina and all of a sudden there is an interest in the F-16's - again.
Bahrain, Slovakia and even Croatia...wanted used ones. Yesterday the Royal Moroccan Air Force placed an order.

One has to admit that there is something about the F-16 that nations want to keep going back to (Bahrain & Morocco).

Look, i'm not thrilled that our moral enemy is building those wings, but one can't deny that the F-16 is back on the Block and competing with the likes of Rafales, Gripens, EFT etc...

 

[Thorough Pro]

a permanent presence in the country through local office means some long term projects, probably some involvement in new technologies related to project AZM. @Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @Khafee

@Oscar that's no small presence. I wonder if something like offsets (by spinning off the AW139 MRO) is on the cards?

 

[Trailer23]

a permanent presence in the country through local office means some long term projects, probably some involvement in new technologies related to project AZM. @Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @Khafee

Have there been any Tenders gone out to indicate the progress?

You see the Turkish TF-X programme has been on halt for a quite a while. Rolls Royce engines have backed off because of involvement because Qatari backing.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Have there been any Tenders gone out to indicate the progress?

You see the Turkish TF-X programme has been on halt for a quite a while. Rolls Royce engines have backed off because of involvement because Qatari backing.

If there are any tenders, they won't be available to the public -- basically a way to guard these projects from outside interference. @Oscar if electronics is the focus, I hope we look at getting Leonardo to broker the sale and transfer of Targo/JHMCS II HMD/S for the JF-17 (Leonardo is already brokering Elbit's tech on the M346).

Well, that is another debate...
But think about it. At one point, the F-16 was done for sure. Infact, the last F-16 that was built in Texas was meant to be for Iraq. Curtains. Or so we thought.

They moved the assembly line to South Carolina and all of a sudden there is an interest in the F-16's - again.
Bahrain, Slovakia and even Croatia...wanted used ones. Yesterday the Royal Moroccan Air Force placed an order.

One has to admit that there is something about the F-16 that nations want to keep going back to (Bahrain & Morocco).

Look, i'm not thrilled that our moral enemy is building those wings, but one can't deny that the F-16 is back on the Block and competing with the likes of Rafales, Gripens, EFT etc...

The Block-70/72 shares the same engine and airframe components as the Block-50/52, itself a very popular and widely used model. So the lifecycle costs are probably very competitive.

 

[mingle]

but manufacture wings for whom, aliens..no one is buying any more f16s by time its setup all of last orders will be fullfilled

That's my argument when EU and other phasing F16s what TATA gona do with that wing?? Pak not gona buy that it's only feseable if IAF order jets from LM

 

[CriticalThought]

If there are any tenders, they won't be available to the public -- basically a way to guard these projects from outside interference. @Oscar if electronics is the focus, I hope we look at getting Leonardo to broker the sale and transfer of Targo/JHMCS II HMD/S for the JF-17 (Leonardo is already brokering Elbit's tech on the M346).


The Block-70/72 shares the same engine and airframe components as the Block-50/52, itself a very popular and widely used model. So the lifecycle costs are probably very competitive.

Is it possible that PAC will become a system integrator for Leonardo products on JF-17? This move could be the first step towards Thunder sales with European avionics?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Is it possible that PAC will become a system integrator for Leonardo products on JF-17? This move could be the first step towards Thunder sales with European avionics?

It depends. If we're talking about the cockpit, human machine interface (HMI), EW/ECM, etc, then not only are export sales doable, but the PAF would apply that Western tech to its own JF-17s too.

However, if we're talking about radars, such as the Vixen or the Grifo E, then it's a tough task as that'd require a non-Chinese source for BVRAAM and AShM. I used to underestimate this part of the process, but it appears to be pretty expensive and time-consuming. If the JF-17 is competing on price, then the best approach is to always offer the solution available at no extra integration cost or time (i.e., today).

So in sum, a European avionics and EW/ECM suite are quite plausible (if not likely), but a radar is unlikely. The only way the PAF could make the radar a Western radar a factor is by having its own first-party BVRAAM and AShM; this is why I hope reports of working on this front with Turkey's Roketsan are true...

As part of the agreement, Rokestan AS, an establishment of the Turkish Armed Force Foundation, is expected to assist Pakistan with air-to-air, ground-to-ground and anti-tank UMTAS and OMTAS missile technology.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1857733/8-turkey-provide-cybersecurity/​

 

[CriticalThought]

It depends. If we're talking about the cockpit, human machine interface (HMI), EW/ECM, etc, then not only are export sales doable, but the PAF would apply that Western tech to its own JF-17s too.

However, if we're talking about radars, such as the Vixen or the Grifo E, then it's a tough task as that'd require a non-Chinese source for BVRAAM and AShM. I used to underestimate this part of the process, but it appears to be pretty expensive and time-consuming. If the JF-17 is competing on price, then the best approach is to always offer the solution available at no extra integration cost or time (i.e., today).

So in sum, a European avionics and EW/ECM suite are quite plausible (if not likely), but a radar is unlikely. The only way the PAF could make the radar a Western radar a factor is by having its own first-party BVRAAM and AShM; this is why I hope reports of working on this front with Turkey's Roketsan are true...

As part of the agreement, Rokestan AS, an establishment of the Turkish Armed Force Foundation, is expected to assist Pakistan with air-to-air, ground-to-ground and anti-tank UMTAS and OMTAS missile technology.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1857733/8-turkey-provide-cybersecurity/​

As far as Western equipment is concerned, it follows widely published standards that define how information is interexchanged. This is true even for Western radars. The only problem would be if a radar encrypted the data bring sent on the bus, but I am not sure any radar actually does this. Then again, I am no expert on the matter.

But Turkish missiles paired with Italian avionics sounds like a dream. I look forward to a Thunder sale with this equipment.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

but manufacture wings for whom, aliens..no one is buying any more f16s by time its setup all of last orders will be fullfilled

That's my argument when EU and other phasing F16s what TATA gona do with that wing?? Pak not gona buy that it's only feseable if IAF order jets from LM

F-16's would be operational in regions like Africa and South America for some time. LM is smart they want India to make these wings to keep the costs low making it a potential best seller in the above mentioned continents.

 

[fatman17]

I was told the Frogs were asking 60 million per platform for their 59 M2K5s in 2002 although the spares were substantial. With the latest crumbs being picked up of the Indian table they will not be interested in jeoperdising the deal. My take is this is a false news. The time for M2Ks has come and gone.
Onwards to block3 and if required intermediate platform.
A

French will not sell offensive war materials to Pakistan anymore.

 

[mingle]

French will not sell offensive war materials to Pakistan anymore.

We don't need overpriced war material as well thanks

 

[ziaulislam]

F-16's would be operational in regions like Africa and South America for some time. LM is smart they want India to make these wings to keep the costs low making it a potential best seller in the above mentioned continents.

Which African country name 1. Akso name South American country
Countries either need none or operate some other or won't be given any ...

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Which African country name 1. Akso name South American country
Countries either need none or operate some other or won't be given any ...

So fat there is only one country in South America that is operating F-16's but as soon more F-16's are available in the market Restrictions will be removed paving the way for exports to all theses countries. Moreover with Russia and China making inroads in infrastructure and transport sectors these countries would have enough cash to buy & maintain the F-16 well into 2080.
You well know PAF has been operating the Mirages for over 50 yrs. Recently the tests regarding structure for F-16 were conducted where these airframs out performed their designed life. Also this developed life enhancement modules which would help LM to keep F-16's flying till the next century in areas where people are still flying on DC-3's today.

 

[GriffinsRule]

So fat there is only one country in South America that is operating F-16's but as soon more F-16's are available in the market Restrictions will be removed paving the way for exports to all theses countries. Moreover with Russia and China making inroads in infrastructure and transport sectors these countries would have enough cash to buy & maintain the F-16 well into 2080.
You well know PAF has been operating the Mirages for over 50 yrs. Recently the tests regarding structure for F-16 were conducted where these airframs out performed their designed life. Also this developed life enhancement modules which would help LM to keep F-16's flying till the next century in areas where people are still flying on DC-3's today.

Chile and Venezuela both have F-16s in South America. The former can barely afford to feed its people right now with hyperinflation and the later has no need for additional. Other countries in South America have either gone for French (Brazil) or are broke too (like Argentina).

In Africa, Morocco and Egypt have F-16s. Libya is in no shape to get anything and eventually will buy French. South Africa can not afford anything bar the few Grippens they already have. Algerians are in the Russian camp and already operate Mig-29s and Su-30s etc. Nigeria is barely able to afford the JF-17. There are no other real takers in the continent.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Vixen 1000

If Pakistan gets a Leonardo AESA radar with associated avionics suite, then can Pakistan also get the Meteor missile ? Would be an interesting variant for sure and really mix up Indian planning and reactions to fast developing aerial tactical situations. ie are they facing a chinese avionice system, turkish or italian !!! Which missile is gonna come at them. All in the same airframe.