Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[BHarwana]

You know as well as everyone else that neither China nor Pakistan would want to do that. China made a pact to procure 150 JFT. Did it do so and where did you see their cancellation order? These things just do not happen
The provision of older 16s and MLU has meant PAF is happy to carry on with JFT and 16s. There is no reason to buy an additional platform. There are problems with the AL31 and WS10 has not matured sufficiently for it to be in recokening. There were reports of spectacular J10 flame outs..Main reason for not going for J10 is that it brings nothing on the table for PAF. They have put their money on the JFT and buying another platform would send out the wrong message possibly affecting sale. The 16s are excluded as PAF already has them and they can be easily incorporated into our system. If you look at the last CAS interview he has given some specs of the FGF and it will be either j20 or some other platform. J31 is shortlegged and needs money pouring into it for development. So the likely scenario is a twin engined lo observability platform with an extensive range and internal bays.
A

Okay lets stick with what you are saying with out diverting much. 1 Pakistan placed the order after the J10-b in 2012 and first squadron of JF-17 was inducted in 2010 if I am not mistaking. Now Pakistan was only interested in 36 J10-b fighters. So taking the info available in hand this is what can be concluded That Pakistan wanted to buy J-10b for different role from JF-17 and buying only 36 meant that this was purely specific role. The order was placed for J10-b that means it included WS-10 engine and Aesa RADAR as well. So at time it was leap on many technologies available but now current dynamics have changed and I will consider that the deal has changed but the question remains what will happen in between JF-17 block 3 and AZM. To be more specific with the development of AZM we all can conclude that J-20 and J-31 are not coming. Now WS-10 will be the power plant for AZM and this all will take time. So that means if Pakistan is not buying J10-b then JF-17 block 3 will come with Major modifications if not there will be a purchase of J10-b as a breather that is all I can conclude.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Okay lets stick with what you are saying with out diverting much. 1 Pakistan placed the order after the J10-b in 2012 and first squadron of JF-17 was inducted in 2010 if I am not mistaking. Now Pakistan was only interested in 36 J10-b fighters. So taking the info available in hand this is what can be concluded That Pakistan wanted to buy J-10b for different role from JF-17 and buying only 36 meant that this was purely specific role. The order was placed for J10-b that means it included WS-10 engine and Aesa RADAR as well. So at time it was leap on many technologies available but now current dynamics have changed and I will consider that the deal has changed but the question remains what will happen in between JF-17 block 3 and AZM. To be more specific with the development of AZM we all can conclude that J-20 and J-31 are not coming. Now WS-10 will be the power plant for AZM and this all will take time. So that means if Pakistan is not buying J10-b then JF-17 block 3 will come with Major modifications if not there will be a purchase of J10-b as a breather that is all I can conclude.

your all information are wrong mushi govt order 36 J-10 not in 2009 or in 2012, in mushi term there were only J-10A not J-10b on the horizon at that time so we were getting J-10A at that time, and at the time of 2012 WS-10 were not matured enough and not mass produce at that time and is in testing phase on J-11/su27 and on few J-10B's and as for your information J-10B has a PESA not an AESA, J-10C has a AESA, recently confirmed by the Chinese members that J-10B has a PESA radar go to J-10 discussion thread in Chinese section @BHarwana

 

[ziaulislam]

You know as well as everyone else that neither China nor Pakistan would want to do that. China made a pact to procure 150 JFT. Did it do so and where did you see their cancellation order? These things just do not happen
The provision of older 16s and MLU has meant PAF is happy to carry on with JFT and 16s. There is no reason to buy an additional platform. There are problems with the AL31 and WS10 has not matured sufficiently for it to be in recokening. There were reports of spectacular J10 flame outs..Main reason for not going for J10 is that it brings nothing on the table for PAF. They have put their money on the JFT and buying another platform would send out the wrong message possibly affecting sale. The 16s are excluded as PAF already has them and they can be easily incorporated into our system. If you look at the last CAS interview he has given some specs of the FGF and it will be either j20 or some other platform. J31 is shortlegged and needs money pouring into it for development. So the likely scenario is a twin engined lo observability platform with an extensive range and internal bays.
A

the only problem in this assessment is that f16 hasnt come in numbers we would expect, infact apart from Jordanian f-16 we havent gotten anything major in this decade.

whether this is the result of stiff resistance at capital hill or poor political leadership is different discussion but this has created a clear deficit in PAF fleet, this is only going to get worse if IAF and IN goes with multiple squadrons of rafale and gripen.

PAF will need a fighter before 2025. I dont expect j31 or project AZM being ready by than..
if IAF procure 100 odd Rafale and similar amount of gripen by than , PAF will be vastly outmatched and outgunned in a way it has never been before

PAF has to manage both IN and IAF

solution would be a either major upgrade of jf-17 in line of gripen NG/f16C/D( which i am not sure is going to happen given its almost a new fighter) or new fighter which is what the discussion is about
PAF might lose its minimum credible capability against IAF

a wonderful situation would be J31 getting ready before 2025 and PAF getting 2-3 squardons of it but that has to be seen

or things cooling down and USA allowing PAF to acquire second hand f16s from europe and EDA stock

 

[BERKEKHAN2]

I don't think so because Pakistan is a customer of J-10b with WS-10 and it is being tested and production will take time.

Why not the J10C

 

[I FLY HIGH]

Why not the J10C

good question.

 

[Tank131]

The only way I see PAF ever going for the J-10 is in the event of war and PAF urgently needing fighters. I would not be surprised if a large number of pilots would be trained on the J-10 to enable a rapid transfer of fighters from China to Pakistan in the event of war. Short of that, i see PAF and CAC further developing the JF-17 into blocks 3 and 4 in order to fill the gap. There are currently 75 F-16 and 100 JF-17. Additionally there are 60 F-7pg and roughly 67 ROSE I/II/III Mirages which can likely soldier on for another 7-10 years. That leaves 70 fighters to replace in the next few years. The bulk of these are Mirage 3 and V (Sqn 8, 15, 22) with No 18 Sqd (Sharp Shooters) being the last sqd (i believe) operating the F-7P. If PAC is able to ramp up production to 15-25airframes per year as has been reported to be possible, and the Chinese line (which is open given that Myanmar thunders were likely built there) can pump out a similar number, then PAF could have the aircraft from these 4 squadrons replaced in 1.5-2years (likely by 2020 if blk 3 production starts in 2019 as expected). The block 4 will likely start production in 2022-2023 along with project AZM/J-31 (which i honestly believe to be the same) coming up in 2025. If 70-100 block 3 are made and 50 block 4 by 2023, that puts PAF at ~250-270JF-17 along with 75 F-16 OR 325-345 Fighters by 2023. If PAF needs to it can get the J-10 in a wartime senario, but the goal will be replacing old build block 1 airframes amd bringing FGF online tp start replacing MLU F-16.

I would advocate for a large heavy strike fighter to fill out the numbers a bit. If the Su-35 is unavailable (it is highly unlikely the Chinese flankers could be sold) O still think getting 2 squdrons of JH-7B with the AESA and IRST from J-11D or J-16, and a good HMS paired with Pl-10 and Pl-15 and its myriad of strike weapoms including the ability to field 4AShM or probably 2 RAAD in addition to carrying 4 A2A missiles and fuel. Pair it with PAF AWACS via a data link and this thing could be a bomb/missile truck that could significantly decrease the pressure on JF-17 in the naval and strike roles and ease some burden on PAF to get newer fighters (probably could get 40 fighters in 2 years, replacing the rose II/III Sqd very easily).

 

[BERKEKHAN2]

good question.

[emoji23]

 

[Talon]

I was told in 2012 by current CPD JF-17 that we were broke as hell. So I don’t see where the 2013 news or order comes in. The “news” itself seems like a rehash.

Only the ACM himself can satisy Mr @BHarwana..he's not going to believe anyone on PDF

 

[Inception-06]

The only way I see PAF ever going for the J-10 is in the event of war and PAF urgently needing fighters. I would not be surprised if a large number of pilots would be trained on the J-10 to enable a rapid transfer of fighters from China to Pakistan in the event of war. Short of that, i see PAF and CAC further developing the JF-17 into blocks 3 and 4 in order to fill the gap. There are currently 75 F-16 and 100 JF-17. Additionally there are 60 F-7pg and roughly 67 ROSE I/II/III Mirages which can likely soldier on for another 7-10 years. That leaves 70 fighters to replace in the next few years. The bulk of these are Mirage 3 and V (Sqn 8, 15, 22) with No 18 Sqd (Sharp Shooters) being the last sqd (i believe) operating the F-7P. If PAC is able to ramp up production to 15-25airframes per year as has been reported to be possible, and the Chinese line (which is open given that Myanmar thunders were likely built there) can pump out a similar number, then PAF could have the aircraft from these 4 squadrons replaced in 1.5-2years (likely by 2020 if blk 3 production starts in 2019 as expected). The block 4 will likely start production in 2022-2023 along with project AZM/J-31 (which i honestly believe to be the same) coming up in 2025. If 70-100 block 3 are made and 50 block 4 by 2023, that puts PAF at ~250-270JF-17 along with 75 F-16 OR 325-345 Fighters by 2023. If PAF needs to it can get the J-10 in a wartime senario, but the goal will be replacing old build block 1 airframes amd bringing FGF online tp start replacing MLU F-16.

I would advocate for a large heavy strike fighter to fill out the numbers a bit. If the Su-35 is unavailable (it is highly unlikely the Chinese flankers could be sold) O still think getting 2 squdrons of JH-7B with the AESA and IRST from J-11D or J-16, and a good HMS paired with Pl-10 and Pl-15 and its myriad of strike weapoms including the ability to field 4AShM or probably 2 RAAD in addition to carrying 4 A2A missiles and fuel. Pair it with PAF AWACS via a data link and this thing could be a bomb/missile truck that could significantly decrease the pressure on JF-17 in the naval and strike roles and ease some burden on PAF to get newer fighters (probably could get 40 fighters in 2 years, replacing the rose II/III Sqd very easily).

Sir we agree, but do you have the same opinion about the J-10C that it is not a needed aircraft by the PAF ?

 

[Incog_nito]

Is there any chance or need in PAF for any other fighter?
Rafael
EF-2000
Grippen
J-10B/BS
F-16s from USA (used Block-15)

 

[BHarwana]

Only the ACM himself can satisy Mr @BHarwana..he's not going to believe anyone on PDF

When for 5 years here every one can say a valid news false so I can say that his word is needed.

 

[salman-1]

J10 in PAF would be like " Too late the Hero"

 

[SQ8]

When for 5 years here every one can say a valid news false so I can say that his word is needed.

Please advise proof of validity: you are just basing an old statement saying it is still true.

Is there any chance or need in PAF for any other fighter?
Rafael
EF-2000
Grippen
J-10B/BS
F-16s from USA (used Block-15)

The first is a NO, the second is a long shot and expensive, the third is pointless as the JF-17 is very similar
The fourth is just a Chinese F-16 at the end of the day, lest @Deino takes that to heart.

And we’re saying goodbye to America.

 

[BHarwana]

Please advise proof of validity: you are just basing an old statement saying it is still true.

I am not bashing any statement my friend. I just provided the statement and the statement was always there. At the moment the deal might not be there I totally agree but this deal was live and had taken place at the time so every one bashing that deal was never made is wrong. I have no knowledge of current state of deal and affairs and so does every one else here has no knowledge it is just that.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

We might have to raise the number of fighters as well by a few squadrons to counter growing numbers in Indian inventory.