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Yes I have many friends in PAF. But I also said that I can relly on them because they don't know any thing them selves only test pilots know don't quote my statements half man.

Yes only a noob will rely on Wikipedia so please read my statement again where I said that Wikipedia is updated by general public.

Dr. Shahid Masood has inside info like you. I don't have any inside info. :)

You want to be the one with inside PAF info you are most welcome to be I am not a PAF insider I am just a common Pakistani with no military ties and I an just a noob kid with access to internet. But I know how to use internet and get info which I need Mr. PAF insider.
First of all I never said I am a PAF insider...dont make false comments.
Secondly,if u didnt rely on wikipedia and read to get information then u wouldnt be quoting it here...simple AF.
Now again u say u have lots of paf friends and then say common pakistani with no military ties...you indeed are a kid.
If like Dr Shahid u cant defend ur point(being that the deal is still active) then just accept it...why argue?
 
First of all I never said I am a PAF insider...dont make false comments.
Secondly,if u didnt rely on wikipedia and read to get information then u wouldnt be quoting it here...simple AF.
Now again u say u have lots of paf friends and then say common pakistani with no military ties...you indeed are a kid.
If like Dr Shahid u cant defend ur point(being that the deal is still active) then just accept it...why argue?

My friend I know that I provided a legit link to PAF j-10b order is hurting your ego but let it go and get over it. This is a PAF discussion thread not a discussion thread on me.

I have friends in PAF but they are not my military ties. Do you think that having friends in PAF makes us more than a common Pakistani? I have friends and they are my friends not my military ties and yes I am a common Pakistan. Now where is the contradiction here? PAF employees don't share info to common Pakistanis so they are friends not military ties, you need to grow up and get over the idea of being common is some thing bad.
 
Please stop spreading American propaganda to boost F-16 sales kindly. If Pakistan placed the order for j10a they would have been delivered because deal was live in 2016 and 2009 to 2016 is a lot of time for delivery. The funds for PAF cannot be rolled back by civil Govt so no one can do any thing Pakistani Military structure is different there is no civilian govt corruption in the procurement section get educated on Pakistan affairs first then comment.
you beleive what you what you want and Wikipedia good for your health:enjoy: i am not trying to boost F-16 to Pakistan whatever you think:hitwall: i am just stating the facts that there was no J10b in either 2006 or in 2009
and after Zardari govt there were no fund for buying J-10a or b after Zardari govt Pakistan had no intention to buy J-10 or whatever version of version of J-10 because JF-17 has a almost same capabilities as the J-10 have with a exceptions of payloads, at the time of ordering J-10A (mushy govt) WS-10 was a initial phase of development testing on Chinese Su-27 at that time, do research before you post @BHarwana other than wikipedia , its a sincere advice Mr @BHarwana after canceling the order in mushy term there were no further orders of J-10:coffee:

My friend I know that I provided a legit link to PAF j-10b order is hurting your ego but let it go and get over it. This is a PAF discussion thread not a discussion thread on me.
you are insisted your crap again and again, initial order of 36 J-10A in mushy term after no further consideration/orders for J-10 neither in 2009 or in 2012 that is the answer for your silly question @BHarwana :hitwall::devil::angry::mad::crazy:
 
My friend I know that I provided a legit link to PAF j-10b order is hurting your ego but let it go and get over it. This is a PAF discussion thread not a discussion thread on me.

I have friends in PAF but they are not my military ties. Do you think that having friends in PAF makes us more than a common Pakistani? I have friends and they are my friends not my military ties and yes I am a common Pakistan. Now where is the contradiction here? PAF employees don't share info to common Pakistanis so they are friends not military ties, you need to grow up and get over the idea of being common is some thing bad.
Why are we having an ego trip in this matter. The article that was quoted was from 2013. There has been no announcement fromPAF regarding procuring J10. WS10 is not yet that mature that PAF would bet on it.AL31FN is not currently being sold to PAF As of now 5years post the news there is still no sign of J10. If you have a source that has told you that. J10 is being procured we need to agree to disagree and move on. Repeated postings based on old news is not a good way of discussion
 
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Why are we having an ego trip in this matter. The article that was quoted was from 2013. There has been no announcement fromPAF regarding procuring J10. WS10 is not yet that mature that PAF would bet on it.AL31FN is not currently being sold to PAF As of now 5years post the news there is still no sign of J10. If you have a source that has told you that. J10 is being procured we need to agree to disagree and move on. Repeated postings based on old news is not a good way of discussion
you summed it up well.
Chinese were willing to park the J-10 to whatever base we wanted but it didnt even reach the MoU stage beyond our PAF personnel and leadership being shown the jet and some photo ops. many factors like the funding and the question about its power plant and then JF-17's improvement over 10 years and so has pretty much put any such possibility on the back burner


on other note rest of the members please avoid personal remarks and avoid pointless one liners or thread bans will follow
 
you summed it up well.
Chinese were willing to park the J-10 to whatever base we wanted but it didnt even reach the MoU stage beyond our PAF personnel and leadership being shown the jet and some photo ops. many factors like the funding and the question about its power plant and then JF-17's improvement over 10 years and so has pretty much put any such possibility on the back burner


on other note rest of the members please avoid personal remarks and avoid pointless one liners or thread bans will follow
If you remember Hkhan of pakdef.info reported significant flame outs of J10 engines which would have been problematic for PAF. The fact remains that only in the dreams of fanboys will you induct a platform that brings nothing more than a bit more range( irrelevant now due to IFR ) and more HPs. There have been quite a few questions asked about the harxpoints of J10 as inspite of its ?11 hardpoints apparantly 4 can only house dumb bombs so what do we gain and DERs will eventually obviate that need as well.
We may yet buy the damned thing but the reasons may be on account of increasing number of obsolescent platforms and delays/setbacks in the 5th generation projject. If you have heard the CAS interview his explanation about the range and other requirements points to a long range multirole stealth fighter. If there are delays and our friends toys cause them to be exuberant then perhaps or maybe shoved down our throats for some other gains. However we always say Pak cheen dosti Zinda baad.
A
 
Money has always been there for this purchase since the deal was signed. PAF always keep a kitty. and that kitty has increased ever since.
Please stop spreading American propaganda to boost F-16 sales kindly. If Pakistan placed the order for j10a they would have been delivered because deal was live in 2016 and 2009 to 2016 is a lot of time for delivery. The funds for PAF cannot be rolled back by civil Govt so no one can do any thing Pakistani Military structure is different there is no civilian govt corruption in the procurement section get educated on Pakistan affairs first then comment.
okay, keep your fantasies alive
fact is we dont have money for f-16, j-10 or anything, even the jf-17s were produced on credit lol
 
The PLAAF may only have just a handful of J-20s for deployment due to a manufacturing bottleneck. Photo: PLA Daily
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Why the PLA’s J-20 jet-fighter has been so hard to spot

It was expected China would produce up to three of the stealth planes every month, but only a handful so far exist

By ASIA TIMES STAFF
JANUARY 29, 2018

China’s advanced multirole J-20 jets have been hard to find since they entered into service with the People’s Liberation Army Air Force almost one year ago, and it isn’t just because they are super stealth fighters.

Embarassingly, the country’s leading aerospace plant is struggling to meet orders for the plane that was trumpeted as China’s answer to the US F-22 and the Russian T-50 PAK FA, with only a handful having so far been produced due to undisclosed manufacturing glitches.

Hong Kong-based Kanwa Defence Review, citing sources within the PLAAF, as well as recent satellite imagery, said it was likely to be some time before any more fighters exited the Chengdu Aerospace Corp factory in western Sichuan province, even as orders piled up.

All the PLAAF can do in the meantime is maintain and service the existing J-20 inside two hangars at the Dingxin airbase in the northwestern province of Gansu, the publication noted.

The J-20 was hailed by China as a technological marvel when it was first unveiled officially in 2016, able to transform the PLA from “a predominantly territorial air force to one capable of conducting both offensive and defensive operations”. It was expected that up to three of the highly-manoeavrable fighters would be produced each month.


The first J-20s take part in drills at China’s Dingxin airbase. Photo: Weibo
Two totally sealed hangars erected at Dingxin were reportedly intended to house the J-20s which, unlike the US F-22, must be kept at a constant temperature and in a humidity-controlled environment during downtime to preserve their delicate stealth coating. The room temperature needs to be kept at 22 degrees Celsius (71.6 Fahrenheit).

The fact that only two hangers can be seen in satellite photos may be further evidence of the J-20’s supply crunch at the Chengdu plant.

It appears Dingxin has been earmarked as the base for the new generation of fighters, which may have also a role as bombers and spy planes, for both the air force and navy. Xinhua and the PLA Daily have hinted the initial batch of J-20s is undergoing combat drills to mimic dogfights with the F-22 Raptor, the plane China used as its model.

Whether the J-20 will match up to such lofty standards as a genuine fifth-generation fighter is still being debated, with some observers convinced the Chinese plane is at best a 4.5-generation effort because it is powered by only a subsonic engine: either the Russian-made Saturn AL-31 or China’s homemade WS-10A Taihang. The jet’s medium-sized fans could be a drag on its speed and will thus affect its air superiority.


China has developed its own turbofan engine, the WS-15, under the codename of Emei, but tests are continuing to ascertain its durability. The engine would theoretically be capable of turning the J-20 into a truly supersonic fighter.

However, military commentator Andrei Chang pointed out in the Kanwa Defence Review article that the J-20’s hull would need to be retrofitted to accommodate the bigger thrust-weight ratio of the Emei engine, and any modification to the airframe would require meticulous test flights before the planes could go into full deployment.

It is not expected that the engine will be ready until 2019, by which time the PLA was supposed to be graduating to an upgraded stealth fighter, the J-20B. Perhaps it has decided to hold fire on the current model, which might explain why the Chengdu factory is marking time.
 
PAF Mirages getting Cheetah upgrade from South Africa with major avionics & weapons upgrade along with new engine SMR-95.
The upgrade consisted of a complete refurbishment of the airframe down to zero hours, the fitting of non-moving canards , two new stores pylons at the wing roots, an aerial refuelling probe, a new powerful engine.

So J10's aren't coming
Radar ?
 
PAF Mirages getting Cheetah upgrade from South Africa with major avionics & weapons upgrade along with new engine SMR-95.
The upgrade consisted of a complete refurbishment of the airframe down to zero hours, the fitting of non-moving canards , two new stores pylons at the wing roots, an aerial refuelling probe, a new powerful engine.

So J10's aren't coming
plz post source of this speculation
 
PAF Mirages getting Cheetah upgrade from South Africa with major avionics & weapons upgrade along with new engine SMR-95.
The upgrade consisted of a complete refurbishment of the airframe down to zero hours, the fitting of non-moving canards , two new stores pylons at the wing roots, an aerial refuelling probe, a new powerful engine.

So J10's aren't coming
You forgot to mention radar obsorbent material, super cruise capability, tvc, hmds and gan based aesa radar
 
Is PAF looking to get more used F-16s or they are just keeping the old fleet and getting new JF-17s?
 
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