Pakistan 26 squadrons by 2010 VS India 26.5 squadrons by 2015.

[HAIDER]

Better late than never, seems to be the watchword at South Block as the government finally issued the long-delayed global tender for providing the Indian Air Force (IAF) with a new fleet of 126 lightweight fighters last Tuesday. The document reportedly outlines requirements in areas like technology transfer, licensed manufacturing and through-life support arrangements for the Multi-role Combat Aircraft that will replace the ageing MiG-21 interceptors. The government has been sitting on the IAF’s request for these aircraft for an inordinately long while now. Former Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi even wrote to then defence minister Pranab Mukherjee warning that “if corrective measures were not taken immediately”, India would lose its air superiority over Pakistan.

It is no secret that at the rate at which the IAF’s combat force levels are declining, it is just a matter of time before the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) draws level — and edges ahead. Most estimates suggest that the PAF will have some 26 squadrons by 2010, as against the IAF’s depleted strength of 26.5 squadrons by 2015. This would neutralise the superiority of the IAF, which always enjoyed a 2.5:1 advantage in air power over the PAF, in numbers and quality of aircraft. This apparently leaves the IAF no choice but to buy 40 more Sukhoi 30 MKIs from Russia, besides the 126 new aircraft for which the tender has now been floated.

New Delhi should also address the issue politically by urging Russia to stop China from selling Pakistan J-10 and JF-17 fighters that have Russian engines. But then the real concern for the IAF is obviously not just about dwindling numbers of aircraft, but also the urgent need to upgrade the existing fleet of MiGs and Jaguars and refurbish the ageing transport fleet of IL 76s and AN 32s. Unfortunately, the situation has been complicated by the controversial Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which adamantly refuses to leave the drawing board. So the acquisition bid comes not a moment too soon, given the urgent need for new aircraft, midlife upgrade, and force multipliers that could potentially handicap the IAF’s regional deterrence value.
Eye in the sky- Hindustan Times

 

[EagleEyes]

In addition to that IAF has spent three times more money than PAF.

 

[blain2]

This is just the typical Indian hype. PAF and IAF will never have the same # of sqns.

 

[EagleEyes]

I agree! Quite an old trick to earn more and more money. Blain is there any difference between IAF and PAF when it comes to number of aircrafts per squadron. Last i heard PAF had some where 15-18 aircrafts per squadron.

 

[wasim]

indians are also going for indigenous production of high tech aircrafts. this would definetly give them an edge. on other hand we are producing med tech ac. We should be getting j -10 subsequently with TOT.

 

[EagleEyes]

Can malay or some Indian techy guys here tell me, when it comes to transfer of technology for the Su-30MKI aircrafts, where is it limited to? Do they come with the packets?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Even though pakistani airforce maybe at parity with the indians in numbers by 2015, the PAF will be lacking behind in high tech aircraft. Our best of the best may compete with the mirage 2000 and not with the SU 30's or the up coming procurement of newer aircraft.

An all offensive air force of the 60's, 70's and 80's would just become a defensive force. PAF needs something to combat su30 one on one. Regardless of what anyone says, PAF needs strike aircraft with two pipes coming out of the tail and two helmets popping up under the glass canopy. Otherwise rest of the story is just a coverup of what has not been done. PAF needs something that shows either of brute strength or sophistication of a Rafael to counter.

 

[Skywalker]

I totally agree with Mastan Khan, we need some hi tech aircrafts which can counter Su 30 or SU 47 at some later stage. Putting numbers is ok but need the quality as well. The only option available at the moment is Mairage 2000-5 or maybe EFT 2000.

Cant trust Americans anymore, need to develop ties with other suppliers like Russia and I believe all depends upon MRCA contract by India, if India goes for Western stuff then the market would be open for Pakistan, but this recent increase by India in the procurement of more aircrafts, I can bet they have made up their minds already and they are goin for mix now as they cant afford to loose all weather friend like russia.

 

[Contrarian]

Can malay or some Indian techy guys here tell me, when it comes to transfer of technology for the Su-30MKI aircrafts, where is it limited to? Do they come with the packets?

It is being done in phases as India does not, well its 'did not' have the capacity to manufacture the Su-30MKI.

The Su-30MKI has three marks, mk1, 2, and 3 with successive upgrades and including more and more Indian equipment rather than Russian. For example even the Su-30MKI mk1 includes indigenously made Tarang RWR and communication equipment and MC's.

Initially the Su-30MKI was comming from Russia in semi knocked down kits, later that became completely knocked down kits and now the Su-30MKI is manufactured completely, in India by HAL. If i remember correctly even the AL-31FP engines are being produced by HAL in koraput. Made directly from the raw materials. 'Deep' ToT was acquired for the Su-30MKI.

Su-30MKI is being completely made here now, with the current rate being roughly 15 planes per year. I dont remember this part completely though, i maybe wrong in this. To shore up the numbers quickly, Russia is producing the MKI's for India as well. Both India and Russia are producing them.

 

[Contrarian]

Our best of the best may compete with the mirage 2000 and not with the SU 30's

Dude, its soon to become Mirage 2005+

 

[Neo]

Hi,

Even though pakistani airforce maybe at parity with the indians in numbers by 2015, the PAF will be lacking behind in high tech aircraft. Our best of the best may compete with the mirage 2000 and not with the SU 30's or the up coming procurement of newer aircraft.

I beg to differ with this statement, block 52 is quite capabale and can take on SU-30MKI in BVR scenario. WVR gives SU-30 some advantages such as radar and payload.
Please read the Indira Dhanush reports, the MKI did not use the radar due security concerns and RAF Tornado's were always able to counter it in WVR warfare.

Aerodynamics is one this, weapons and electronic suite another. Block 52 is selected by PAF to counter latest IAF fighters including the MKI.

 

[Neo]

Dude, its soon to become Mirage 2005+

Good, now it can compete against JF-17.

 

[EagleEyes]

Dude, its soon to become Mirage 2005+

What upgrades?

 

[MastanKhan]

Neo,

Thanks for your comments. As we are discussing year 2015, su 30 would have gone through the neccessary uprgrade plus the newer version plus the 126 plane package, which if ready and delivered by then would be a great victory for the IAF. But knowing a little bit about indian defence procurement,these planes maynot be ready by 2020. If all goes well for IAF, PAF would playing the catch up game.

Hind sight 20/20-----the early 90's cancellation of the mirage 2000 deal with france by the interim pakistani prime minister will always haunt the PAF for the next 15 to 20 years. Pakistani politicians and public never had the depth and foresight to realize that even if 20 % would have been paid in bribes on the purchase to MR Zardari and co, PAF would still have come ahead.

I will put my head on the chopping block for saying this as I have said many a times before for many a years----even if there was a 100 % bribe paid for the procurement of the mirage 2000's, PAF would never have been as impotent as it has been for the last few years.

Average pakistani has the belief that a pakistani pilot can jump into the cockpit and within seconds he has mastered that plane.

None has been told that it takes at least 5 years of constant training and flying to become a good pilot on a plane like the mirage 2000. And and another 5 years to excel at your job.

Instead of being able to match upto the mirage 2000 in the past, we are still a few years away from competing with it, till we have a couple of three sqdrns of JF 17's at hand.

 

[Bull]

What upgrades?

Something that i could gather....

The Indian Air Force is close to finalising a 1.5 billion Euro deal for upgradation of its 52 front line Mirage-2000 fighter jet. The upgrades will give the Air Force Mirage 2000 jets twenty five years of additional service life.

The jets will be armed with with futuristic 'Matra Mica' air-to-air missiles. The Matra BAe Dynamics Mica is an innovative lightweight missile that can both intercept incoming missiles and fire at multiple targets. The Mica is an advanced medium-range missile that is the French counterpart to the more capable American AMRAAM missile.

"The deal, which will provide for mounting a joint tactical information data link system (JTIDS), compatibility with helmet-mounted sights for off-bore-sight heat-seeking missiles and long-range sensors, is almost at the finalization stage," top IAF officials said.

The upgradation is to be undertaken in India starting next year.

It would involve complete change of radar systems, combat display systems and electronic warfare system of the French-made Mirages. It together with multi-role Sukhoi 30 MKI, form the bulwark of country's air combat power.

The retrofit is to be undertaken jointly by a French-Indian consortium comprising the aircraft makers Dassault, weapons systems integrator Thales, missile manufacturers MBDA and India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.