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PAK-FA takes to the sky!

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We do...

:cheers:...
Hehe, but still you had to admit to the British that the F35 could be not so stealthy you intended it to be. That's what I meant, I also think that it will be stealthy from distances as you explained, but in some simulations the Rafale wasn't that far behind.
 
Hello gambit.

You seem to be a very knowledgeable engineer to me with experience in the Aerospace Industry. I myself am a young engineer, and have just started my career in the Aerospace industry. I plan on starting my own company eventually, most likely related to the control and electronics side of aviation. Right now i'm working on a multi-sensor turret for L3 Communications WESCAM (here's a link and a video if you're interested: MX-15 or AN/AAQ-35 || Video)

I was wondering the other day, is it possible to have a single UAV produce the exact radiation required to deceive the enemy into thinking an aerial strike package was on its way? I mean, could you make them think that there was a formation of 4-8 aircrafts heading towards a particular point, when in fact it is just a single UAV with a radio transmitter attached to it? The idea seems pretty doable to me, and would be a very convenient way of deceiving an enemy. And once you've got your enemy deceived, he's at your mercy. "The way of the war is the way of deception".

I just thought I'd ask the question. It's been on my mind, and I can't seem to see why it hasn't already been tried. I'd like to know because I am very interested in experimenting with my own UAV designs.

Thanks.
It is good that you are ambitious so here goes...

Currently, RCS reduction techniques are through passive measures such as body shaping AND materials that absorbs a certain level of energy of the radar signals that impact the body. They are rather loosely called radar absorbing materials (RAM), for lack of better terminologies.

Body shaping are done through basic understanding of radar signal BEHAVIOR on a body.

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The F-117's body shaping and consequently radical RCS reduction was based upon the principle of reflection, that if a planar surface is angled, no matter how slight, any reflection off the surface will be away from source direction as illustrated above.

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Now...Because no surface is ever completely smooth, microscopic irregularities create microscopic 'corner reflectors'. Corner reflectors, aka target corner reflectors, are created every time two surfaces or edges meet to create a corner and it is corner reflectors, microscopic or otherwise, that allow detection of the aircraft. Take a walk around the aircraft and it does not take long to recognize corner reflectors all over the body such as where the wing root meet the fuselage, for example.

So first...The aircraft became odd looking with so many angled facets. Then because no surface is ever truly smooth, RAM is installed onto these angled surfaces. The result is that a large part of the radar pulse's energy be reflected away from source direction, then some more energy is absorbed by RAM, then whatever remain of the original pulse that managed to be reflected back to the radar is so weak that the radar will dismiss that echo as 'clutter'. When we get to 'clutter' we are referring to echoes that we DO NOT want to display. Clutter is arbitrary. For a weapons radar, clouds are garbage but for a weather radar, aircrafts, balloons, birds, buildings, and people are garbage and cloud display are desirable. Clutter also involve constant false alarm processing (CFAR) but that is an entirely different discipline by itself. Clutter and CFAR together is a huge can of worms. Essentially, what we call 'stealth' is the desire to have the enemy think we belong in the 'garbage' region of radar detection and dismiss us until it is too late.

Next to the F-22...

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When a radar pulse impact a curved surface, there are some reflections due to microscopic surface irregularities, but then we have the 'creeping wave' phenomenon...

Creeping wave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Creeping waves greatly extend the ground wave propagation of long wavelength (low frequency) radio. They also cause both of a person's ears to hear a sound, rather than only the ear on the side of the head facing the origin of the sound. In radar ranging, the creeping wave return appears to come from behind the target.

Curved surfaces calculations are much more complex than angled surfaces because the B-2, F-22 and F-35 are not spheres but structurally complex objects. The F-117 was possible even when engineers were using sliderulers. For these aircrafts, their body forms were calculated by supercomputers that simulate nuclear explosions.

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So next to a sphere, an ogive is the next best shape to create electrically long distances for the creeping wave effect and because of the 'creeping wave' effect, the F-22 and its brethens uses far less RAM than the F-117. They need RAM only on the leading edges of the bodies.

Now we come to RAM...

There are:

Resistive
1 - Salisbury screen
2 - Dallenbach layering
3 - Jaumann layering

Inductive-Capacitive
4 - Circuit analog sheeting

The Salisbury screen is the simplest absorber and one that any second rate industrialized country can produce. But it is also the most limited in terms of bandwidth that it can 'absorb'. Then we have increasing sophistication with the Dallenbach and Jaumann layering techniques. To put it simply, each type is essentially a coating, either a solid but flexible sheet or liquid, that contains carbonyl iron or ferrite powders. The problems for the first three types of absorbers are limited bandwidth and with increased bandwidth capability comes the weight penalty. I have no problems telling you this information is because these materials are commercially available -- internal radome coatings. They sort of 'absorb' the transmissions then pass the signals through the radome. You can easily find online information for these three absorbers type.

Item 4 -- circuit analog sheeting -- is the next generation of 'stealth' aircrafts, which will be active RCS manipulators, not merely reducers.

For the first three absorbers, the particles are not uniform in distribution over a specified area. With the circuit analog sheeting technique, precise patterns are created by using multisheeting of the first three absorbers. You can get an idea of the level of complexity by doing some reading on photoetching techniques in semiconductor products manufacturing.

Molecular Expressions: The Silicon Zoo - Velociraptor

Shapes such as triangles, crosses or even stars can be useful. A pattern of these shapes does the same initial function as the ferrite particles in the first three layering techniques, which is to trap the radar signal, but different sizes and shapes gives control over inductance and the spacings between the patterns give control over capacitance. Electrically speaking, it is clearly superior and more flexible than resistive only absorbers.

Here is a small example of some of the things I spoke about...

Frequency tuning characteristics of capacitively loaded Salisbury screen radar absorber
The frequency characteristics of a Salisbury screen radar absorber that incorporates a layer exhibiting both resistive and capacitive properties are considered. If the capacitance is fixed, the absorber thickness and hence weight may be reduced but at the expense of bandwidth. If the capacitance is variable then the absorber may be tuned via an external control signal. The practical limitations of both applications are discussed in relation to recent advances in conducting polymer materials
Inductive-Capacitive techniques are much more complex to manufacture. If you design a supercar with active suspension controls but do not install the computer and sensors that would actually make use of the hardwares, you have just wasted a lot of money for nothing. This mean that corresponding computer and software sophistication MUST accompany these techniques.

Everything I said so far only scratched the surfaces of radar detection and 'stealth' technologies and very much is the foundation of what you wish to enter. Your questions:

...is it possible to have a single UAV produce the exact radiation required to deceive the enemy...

...when in fact it is just a single UAV with a radio transmitter attached to it?

It's been on my mind, and I can't seem to see why it hasn't already been tried.
Yes...But for a UAV to be successful at such deception, the aircraft must be an active RCS manipulator. As if that is not technically difficult enough, since every design has a unique RCS signature, like a submarine's screw noise, the aircraft must be programmed with the appropriate RCS signature it wishes to emulate to deceive the enemy. This is far more involved that just attaching a 'radio transmitter' and call it good. Naturally, the more RCS signatures programmed, the more flexible the system.

For the UAV...The design must be judicious at using angled facetings at certain areas and curved surfaces at other areas. So just because the F-117 is retired, that does not mean the principle that created the aircraft is obsolete. The panels that are of inductive-capacitive techniques can also be charged, like that of a transistor, and be an emitter, making possible the deception. But what is required from the development side is that you must become an adept PREDICTOR of how radar signals behave on and off a body, which leads back to all those figures I presented above. If you fly F-15s you must know as accurate as possible the RCS signatures of a clean F-15, an air-air configured F-15 and a ground strike configured F-15. After all, you are trying to convince an adversary that you are sending fighter-bombers from one direction when your forces are preparing to attack from another direction. The ghost fighter-bombers must be convincing. Keep in mind that any radar pulse that reflected off a body make that body an emitter, no matter how fleeting the signal. So why not attempt to control it, not merely mask it like the current techniques using ECM pods?

The US is already on track about making the next generation of 'stealth' aircrafts, manned or un-manned, being active RCS manipulators. The current generation of UAVs are already lethal to a certain degree. The lethality level of future UAVs will be the equal of manned aircrafts, giving the side that wields these weapons system, assuming adequate training, the ability to deceive and confuse its adversary to unprecedented level. The defender must, in very short time and under heavy pressure, decide to whether dispatch his resources to intercept ghosts, ghosts with some weapons, or a full air armada. He does not know. The time to recall his fighters would be the time he is under attack with little or no defense fighters.

This is why the F-117 made the Russians and the Chinese nervous. Neither have an equivalent. Arguments that ask the question about 'reinventing the wheel' misses the crucial point about having valid technical experience upon which progress requires. A country does not have to deploy an operational fleet of F-117 equivalent but for the sake of expertise, at least an indigenous design and at least a few fully flight capable models should exist for R/D purposes and to lay the foundation for the next generation of indigenous designs. You are treading into an area that have so many subcategories and that any of those subcategory can consume an engineer's entire career. I left avionics, particularly flight controls, over a decade ago for family related reasons and currently am in semicon products manufacturing. This is how I learned about how certain photoetching techniques can make possible quickly the next generation of 'stealth' aircrafts. I have given you sufficient leads and keywords upon which you can do your own research so enjoy reading what you find.
 
It is good that you are ambitious so here goes...

Currently, RCS reduction techniques are through passive measures such as body shaping AND materials that absorbs a certain level of energy of the radar signals that impact the body. They are rather loosely called radar absorbing materials (RAM), for lack of better terminologies.
active stealth measures are in rampant use...the EW jammers constitute the active stealth components on board many 3-4th gen planes.these active cancellation techniques destroy a part of the incoming mwave from the radar and render it useless...but the jammer for that, should know which frequency band it deals with because the mwave band extencd from HF to i guess 100s of Ghz...but nevertheless if you know the radar...jammers are a good bet for fooling the radar.
The F-117's body shaping and consequently radical RCS reduction was based upon the principle of reflection, that if a planar surface is angled, no matter how slight, any reflection off the surface will be away from source direction as illustrated above.



Now...Because no surface is ever completely smooth, microscopic irregularities create microscopic 'corner reflectors'. Corner reflectors, aka target corner reflectors, are created every time two surfaces or edges meet to create a corner and it is corner reflectors, microscopic or otherwise, that allow detection of the aircraft. Take a walk around the aircraft and it does not take long to recognize corner reflectors all over the body such as where the wing root meet the fuselage, for example.

So first...The aircraft became odd looking with so many angled facets. Then because no surface is ever truly smooth, RAM is installed onto these angled surfaces. The result is that a large part of the radar pulse's energy be reflected away from source direction, then some more energy is absorbed by RAM, then whatever remain of the original pulse that managed to be reflected back to the radar is so weak that the radar will dismiss that echo as 'clutter'. When we get to 'clutter' we are referring to echoes that we DO NOT want to display. Clutter is arbitrary. For a weapons radar, clouds are garbage but for a weather radar, aircrafts, balloons, birds, buildings, and people are garbage and cloud display are desirable. Clutter also involve constant false alarm processing (CFAR) but that is an entirely different discipline by itself. Clutter and CFAR together is a huge can of worms. Essentially, what we call 'stealth' is the desire to have the enemy think we belong in the 'garbage' region of radar detection and dismiss us until it is too late.
yeah...the clutter threshold is adjustable for most radars either manually or though the use of intelligent softwares.a very simple techniques epmloyed in most modern radars of identifying valid targets masked as clutter is through the use of multiple prfs(pulse repetition frequencies)...i.e if a radar uses two prfs f1 and f2....valid targets(which are in motion like an enemy plane) would have two different RCSs...while the stationary clutter(an assumption that holds good for 99% of the time) will have the same RCS on both the f1 and f2.
ideally a radar employs more than 2 prfs to get higher accuracy.
so LO/VLO can be outclassed by the current radar techs...the american f-22 and JSF are better at RCS reduction...i am sure that radars will catch up
 
active stealth measures are in rampant use...the EW jammers constitute the active stealth components on board many 3-4th gen planes.these active cancellation techniques destroy a part of the incoming mwave from the radar and render it useless...but the jammer for that, should know which frequency band it deals with because the mwave band extencd from HF to i guess 100s of Ghz...but nevertheless if you know the radar...jammers are a good bet for fooling the radar.
No...What you speak of is NOT active RCS manipulation techniques but still fall within the masking of the body's RCS domain.

Please read my post #93 on how pulse freq repition jittering, along with other techniques, on how to counter ECM system that employ pulse sampling techniques.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/27367-why-pakistan-not-purchasing-rafale-7.html

yeah...the clutter threshold is adjustable for most radars either manually or though the use of intelligent softwares.a very simple techniques epmloyed in most modern radars of identifying valid targets masked as clutter is through the use of multiple prfs(pulse repetition frequencies)...i.e if a radar uses two prfs f1 and f2....valid targets(which are in motion like an enemy plane) would have two different RCSs...while the stationary clutter(an assumption that holds good for 99% of the time) will have the same RCS on both the f1 and f2.
ideally a radar employs more than 2 prfs to get higher accuracy.
so LO/VLO can be outclassed by the current radar techs...the american f-22 and JSF are better at RCS reduction...i am sure that radars will catch up
It would not matter much on how many different pulse repition freqs are used. Lowering the clutter threshold will increase false alarms (CFAR) and compel the human operators to either ignore many alarms or to raise the threshold level back up to where it was. A valid return, even if the target is moving, would still be masked amidst so many of those false alarms. Further, it is not the prf that will detect a 'stealth' design, it is the wavelength that matter more. It is accepted that nothing is really 'invisible' at 1ghz and below. Multiple prfs techniques are not used for target detection but for validation, aka correlation, especially in a crowded electronic environment like a city with a busy airport. But regardless of multiple prfs techniques, if the first transmission with prf_1 will have a difficult time detecting a 'stealth' aircraft, prf_2 will also have the same problem.

There is an issue with using multiple prf techniques and that has to do with a property called 'finite pulse length'. Unlike a continuous wave (CW) mode of operation, a pulse has a leading edge and a trailing edge, the beginning of the pulse's energy and a cut-off point.

RADAR *PULSE *CHARACTERISTICS
Increased PRF speeds the rate at which targets are repeatedly radiated. This increased sampling results in greater target detail, but the maximum range of the radar is reduced because of the shorter periods between pulses.

Range Ambiguity
If the period between successive pulses is too short, an echo from a distant target may return after the transmitter has emitted another pulse. This would make it impossible to tell whether the observed pulse is the echo of the pulse just transmitted or the echo of the preceding pulse. This produces a situation referred to as range ambiguity. The radar is unable to distinguish between pulses, and derives range information that is ambiguous (unreliable)
Increasing the gaps between pulses, aka widening the prf, will increase speed ambiguity IF the target is detected in the first place. Keep in mind that pulses have timestamps via their leading and trailing edges and they are how we calculate target range and speed. There is always some trade-offs. This is why there are distincts radar operations: Search with long wavelengths and therefore with long pulse gaps. Track with shorter of both and finally Targeting with millimetric freqs which has the shortest of both.
 
It would not matter much on how many different pulse repition freqs are used. Lowering the clutter threshold will increase false alarms (CFAR) and compel the human operators to either ignore many alarms or to raise the threshold level back up to where it was. A valid return, even if the target is moving, would still be masked amidst so many of those false alarms.
see...you are right with that...but many times the operators are taught to oscillate between a lower clutter threshold and the one prescribed by the radar manufacturers...although this is a bad practise as it lowers the radar's life(can cause a receiver burnout even with the best of duplexers limiters protectors..shutter and stuff)
i will tell you from the experience of using sub-standard radars...the ones which the IAF had in '71...now those were stupid radars...and worked for an unambiguous range 1/2 of the mentioned range on the data sheets which many people realized after installing them...
so many times the operators had to lower the threshold to detect the excessive clutter...and then push it up again...the faint clutter of the latter used to turn into a large clutter in the former...so they could detect at a large range...damaging the receiver in the process.

Further, it is not the prf that will detect a 'stealth' design, it is the wavelength that matter more. It is accepted that nothing is really 'invisible' at 1ghz and below. Multiple prfs techniques are not used for target detection but for validation, aka correlation, especially in a crowded electronic environment like a city with a busy airport. But regardless of multiple prfs techniques, if the first transmission with prf_1 will have a difficult time detecting a 'stealth' aircraft, prf_2 will also have the same problem.
yes you are absolutely right...a lower wavelenght would have a good gain...and so would a narrow beamwidth...but there are trade-offs...and so the ideal radar doesnt work...
There is an issue with using multiple prf techniques and that has to do with a property called 'finite pulse length'. Unlike a continuous wave (CW) mode of operation, a pulse has a leading edge and a trailing edge, the beginning of the pulse's energy and a cut-off point.

Increasing the gaps between pulses, aka widening the prf, will increase speed ambiguity IF the target is detected in the first place. Keep in mind that pulses have timestamps via their leading and trailing edges and they are how we calculate target range and speed. There is always some trade-offs. This is why there are distincts radar operations: Search with long wavelengths and therefore with long pulse gaps. Track with shorter of both and finally Targeting with millimetric freqs which has the shortest of both.

see...almost any modern radar can be made to function with multiple prfs nowadays with the aid of better control softwares....and tunable filters and mixers...
and we do have different radars for acquisition and tracking that work in sync. and through phased arrays...which the latter part of your posts explains
 

17/06/09

Sukhoi is still working on a prototype of its fifth-generation "PAK-FA" advanced tactical frontline fighter, but the schedule for its flight-test programme remains unconfirmed, despite earlier indications that the aircraft would fly in 2009.

The Russian manufacturer is focusing its promotional efforts at the show on the Superjet 100 regional jet. Director general Mikhail Pogosyan says he will talk about the fifth-generation fighter at the next Farnborough air show "or later". It is "something for the future", he says.

Pogosyan confirms that the company is creating a prototype and preparing for the start of trials, and that internal discussions regarding the prototype are under way. Beyond that, any communication on the programme awaits the outcome of trials. Last year, Russian news agency RIA Novosti quoted industry and energy minister Viktor Khristenko as saying that "the flight tests of the aircraft are scheduled to begin in 2009".

Though reticent on the specifics of the PAK-FA programme, Pogosyan is confident of success in the Indian fighter contest, in which the MiG-35 has been entered. The MiG aircraft has "a good chance of winning", he says. It has already completed flight tests with the Indian air force.

Of its existing contract with Malaysia for MiG-29K fighters, Pogosyan says that the six aircraft it is due to deliver to the nation will arrive by the end of 2009.

Meanwhile domestic demand for fighters is growing, says Pogosyan. A 50:50 split between domestic and export business is the company's target. It is also aiming at the following split of business: 40% military, 40% commercial and 20% services.

Toward this end Sukhoi is "keen on raising the quality" of after-sales service. "We really need it," admits Pogosyan, citing both the military and commercial segments. Sukhoi has accordingly focused efforts on integration of its logistics and support services, as well as closer co-operation between Sukhoi and MiG, with joint development of future products likely.

Le Bourget is "not a place where you conclude contracts for military aircraft", says Pogosyan. However, new announcements are likely at Russia's MAKS 2009 show, he adds.

Sukhoi is "not free of impact" from the financial crisis, Pogosyan admits. However, he adds that crisis had the effect of boosting the speed of decision-making, particularly when it came to decisions on acquisition of domestic fighter aircraft. "I like working at crisis times," says Pogosyan, adding that crisis made the strong stronger and the weak weaker.

PARIS AIR SHOW: Sukhoi secretive on PAK-FA programmes
 
Though reticent on the specifics of the PAK-FA programme, Pogosyan is confident of success in the Indian fighter contest, in which the MiG-35 has been entered. The MiG aircraft has "a good chance of winning", he says. It has already completed flight tests with the Indian air force.

have the flight evaluation started?
 

Russian pride - PAK-FA, finally being prepared for take-off Russian pride - PAK-FA, finally being prepared for take-off

The Russian fifth generation fighter ready for testing, and promises to be an analogue pokruche American - F-35

June 17, from the Ministry of Defense has good news. At a meeting of the state defense order, Deputy Defense Minister for Armaments Vladimir Popovkin announced that the Russian fifth generation fighter aircraft is practically ready, and in December it would begin flight testing.
 
Sorry the project is J-xx not J-11

J-XX 5th-Generation Fighter Aircraft

China is believed to have been conducting preliminary research on its fifth -generation fighter aircraft since the late 1990s. The fighter, codenamed by Western intelligence as J-XX or XXJ, was described as an advanced F-22-class twin-engine stealth fighter with extensive radar cross section (RCS) reduction features such as internal weapon bay. So far very little information regarding the project has been revealed, though it is understood that the two primary fighter aircraft design institutes of the China Aviation Industries Corporation (AVIC) – Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute (601 Institute) and Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (611 Institute) – have both been working on their own designs to bid for the PLA’s contract.
 
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