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PAK-FA takes to the sky!

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you idiots have screewed this thread - this is one thread i really look forward to !! and you just ruined it-

gabbar, PAFACE dont listen to any crap about j-10 or su-mki which is not realted to this thread


j-10 is amazing but this is not the place to talk about it . dont ruin this thread. and where the heck did levi come in for pak-fa.
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and please provide source where it says - russians can sell this fighter to chinese. ITS TOTAL NONSENSE. what the hell joint venture means ????
if russian become so unreliable india always have a option for -JSF-35.

why talk from your behind please dont just throw nonsense - without proof.


if you want i can show you 1000 source where india was provided with option of jsf-35 , venture and chinese wont get it for sure. If chinese wanted to have pak-fa they can go for other fifth gen fighter programem with russians - they have 2 programme of similer nature - and they want partner for second rpgramme too
 
you idiots have screewed this thread - this is one thread i really look forward to !! and you just ruined it-

gabbar, PAFACE dont listen to any crap about j-10 or su-mki which is not realted to this thread


j-10 is amazing but this is not the place to talk about it . dont ruin this thread. and where the heck did levi come in for pak-fa.
----------------------

and please provide source where it says - russians can sell this fighter to chinese. ITS TOTAL NONSENSE. what the hell joint venture means ????
if russian become so unreliable india always have a option for -JSF-35.

why talk from your behind please dont just throw nonsense - without proof.


if you want i can show you 1000 source where india was provided with option of jsf-35 , venture and chinese wont get it for sure. If chinese wanted to have pak-fa they can go for other fifth gen fighter programem with russians - they have 2 programme of similer nature - and they want partner for second rpgramme too

Bro yar,control bhai control.aram se, pyar se samjaoo.
 
Bro yar,control bhai control.aram se, pyar se samjaoo.

looool - he he he he - lost it there , but its crazy man

- they just derail the thread and then it becomes waste its not same fun anymore:cheers:
 
any update on this plan?
c1af66de3dee3e638273d1b5a6d7b45e.jpg

 
Sorry bad translation..

05.06.09 16:03
Komsomolsk-on-Amur, June 05 (New Region, Alexander Rodionov) - At KnAAPO where secrecy created a Russian fifth generation fighter PAK FA, began reducing the workforce. Already released 80 people, it is possible that further optimization of the number - previously referred to the reduction of more than a thousand people. However, the negative glow of the factory management and workers able to pay visit to KnAAPO Prime Minister Vladimir Putin. The factory told about the agreement between Putin and the head of AKH «Dry» Michael Pogosyanom, however, the document still has not been seen. In these circumstances, continuing the creation of a super secret PAK-FA, the first flight by the Prime Ivanov promises already this year.

At «Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation production merge them. Gagarin »(KnAAPO included in AKH« dry ») reduction started on 3 June, laid off about 80 people - told the factory trade union representative Paul Arslanova. But according to him, formally, by the time some people went to the factory yourself: «Knowing that the reductions can not be avoided, some employees chose to do so in advance by writing a statement on the resignations». In this promise, that skilled workers, including those who collect PAK FA, reduction did not affect - mostly retirees KnAAPO fired. Would have dismissed, is not yet known.

However, at the plant believe that large-scale reductions KnAAPO rescued May visit Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who showed the most secret development of Russia in recent years - the fifth generation multipurpose fighter PAK FA - to create it in the shops KnAAPO. It can be assumed that seen but not yet the finished product impressed the Premier, and he promised the company new orders.

«Following the visit of Vladimir Putin, we were told that he and Mikhail Pogosyan (Chapter aviaholdinga« Dry », approx. ÍÐ) signed some agreement guaranteeing KnAAPO download new products. However, this document has still not been seen. But there is a shift to increased rates of tariff level, for which we fought all the time. Factory administration agreed to meet the team and from September will be made to recalculate it », - noted Paul Arslanov.

But as the case with construction of the PAC FA - are still unknown. At KnAAPO flatly refused to discuss this topic - it had a subscription to withhold information containing state secrets. As the correspondent of «new region», the mystery of PAK FA is indeed strictly protected - for several years in the media do not trickled no one photo of this development, and its layout has never publicly demonstrated. Now the special variety of countries and simple avialyubiteli burned with curiosity, and the last cheat the interpretation of the look of the car. Judging by the majority of images, almost all artists compare with the Russian aircraft F-22 Raptor - features «American» guessed almost all the outline.

Meanwhile, based on statements by government officials who promise to fly PAK FA in 2009, it can be assumed that the center's secret airplane is almost ready. This gives hope that the statement by Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov term sailplane PAK FA will be able to really try. However, whether there are working engines and avionics - the big question. At the same time aware that the draft budget-2009 funding for the development of the PAC FA were going to cut to 938.1 million rubles.
 

06.03.09 18:45
So believe in KB "Dry", which is developing the aircraft.

The German military portal Rrofessionals Defence published an article "What happens when the American monopoly on the" Stealth "? It says that a Russian fighter is able to create competition in the air and on the world market to American aircraft F-22 and F-35. This indicates that the claimed specifications PAK FA to meet the perfect date, F-22, whose purpose is to ensure American supremacy in the air.

The author acknowledges that Russia is able to create a "fighter-invisible." Russian enterprises can produce profiles of the aircraft, ensuring low. The use of special coatings and materials that absorb and reflect no locator signals, making the aircraft virtually invisible to enemy radar.

Modern Russian engine technology is not inferior to the West, noted in the KB "Dry." This is similar to the American technology of the flat nozzle engine for PAK FA in order to reach its low. It also notes that the latest Su-35 fighter had used a digital flight control systems and setetsentricheskie technology management and governance battle.

The latest generation of Russian radar with active phased-array grating used digital technology and algorithms for fast data processing, similar to the American radar technologies that have emerged in this decade.

The article emphasizes that nearly PAK FA will make ineffective or complicate the use of American air-to-air long-range. As a result, the air battle will occur in medium and small distances within the line of sight. And chances are equal F-22 and PAK FA.

According to experts, F-35 is already experiencing difficulty in countering the Su-35 with its low effective area of reflection of radar signals, an equal area of a tennis ball. Upon reaching the same PAK FA lower in the area reflect the radar signal a new American fighter F-35, in the opinion of the author of the article falls into the same "black hole struggle for survival", and that the F-16C / E, F-15C / E and F/A-18A-F.

The first prototypes PAK FA manufactured in Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Production Association in them. Yuri Gagarin.

As the general director of holding "Sukhoi" Mikhail Pogosyan was held in February at Aero India 2009 exhibition, the first flights of new aircraft will take place already this year.
 

06.03.09 18:45
So believe in KB "Dry", which is developing the aircraft.

The German military portal Rrofessionals Defence published an article "What happens when the American monopoly on the" Stealth "? It says that a Russian fighter is able to create competition in the air and on the world market to American aircraft F-22 and F-35. This indicates that the claimed specifications PAK FA to meet the perfect date, F-22, whose purpose is to ensure American supremacy in the air.

The author acknowledges that Russia is able to create a "fighter-invisible." Russian enterprises can produce profiles of the aircraft, ensuring low. The use of special coatings and materials that absorb and reflect no locator signals, making the aircraft virtually invisible to enemy radar.

Modern Russian engine technology is not inferior to the West, noted in the KB "Dry." This is similar to the American technology of the flat nozzle engine for PAK FA in order to reach its low. It also notes that the latest Su-35 fighter had used a digital flight control systems and setetsentricheskie technology management and governance battle.

The latest generation of Russian radar with active phased-array grating used digital technology and algorithms for fast data processing, similar to the American radar technologies that have emerged in this decade.

The article emphasizes that nearly PAK FA will make ineffective or complicate the use of American air-to-air long-range. As a result, the air battle will occur in medium and small distances within the line of sight. And chances are equal F-22 and PAK FA.

According to experts, F-35 is already experiencing difficulty in countering the Su-35 with its low effective area of reflection of radar signals, an equal area of a tennis ball. Upon reaching the same PAK FA lower in the area reflect the radar signal a new American fighter F-35, in the opinion of the author of the article falls into the same "black hole struggle for survival", and that the F-16C / E, F-15C / E and F/A-18A-F.

The first prototypes PAK FA manufactured in Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Production Association in them. Yuri Gagarin.

As the general director of holding "Sukhoi" Mikhail Pogosyan was held in February at Aero India 2009 exhibition, the first flights of new aircraft will take place already this year.

I picked this up somewhere, as of now and in the foreseeable future, there is nothing to beat the F-22.

"The PAK FA was designed to compete with the F-35 Lighting II (AKA JSF) not the F-22. They are two different leagues.

The Su-35 vs. the F-22? Well for one these aircraft are built with two different purposes in mind.

If one looks at the Su-35/37 they notice forward canards. Something that only the americans are not incorporating into their new fighters. The reason for this is forward canards speak to manuverability in a pinch. This boils down to dogfighting. In the hands of pilots of equal skill, the Su's have the advantage in a dogfight.

However dogfights account for only 1 out of 10 aerial victories. The rest being attained in BVR (beyond vidual range) combat. This is what the F-22 was designed for.

You see we've all seen movies like "Top Gun" and "Iron Eagle" and when we think of a missile being fired we think "Break Right!" Well against short range missiles that works. Against longer range missiles such as the AMRAAM this doesn't work. When one fires an AMRAAM at you that's flying mach-4/5 you don't try to break right. Its got plenty of time to compensate, and you don't wait for it to get close then dodge, its moving to fast. What you do is go into erratic manuvers forcing the missile to use up fuel and speed to keep up. The goal being to either cause it to burn up its fuel, or lose so much speed matching your manuvers that you can dodge it.

The F-22 was designed with this purpose in mind. Get so close you can't escape the missiles, fire them, then leave. Dogfighting only as a last resort.

In BVR combat the F-22 has a clear advantage. Also keep in mind AIM-120 are more effective from an F-22, why? Despite what you see in the movies in most air to air combat the fighters stay close to the ground to stay out of the view of surface to air missiles. The stealth F-22 does not, and its high altitude and supercruising speed adds range and speed to the missiles.

There is no doubt in my mind the F-22 is capable of scoring a 10-1 ratio on the Su-35 based purely on the merits of the plane. However combat is much more complicated than this. Those fighting the F-22 will try to avoid engaging it unless they are over their home territory with SAM's, and multiple radars to help them. The americans will send F-35's and F/A-18's on Wild Weasel to degrade this capability. The determinant factor in the battle of Su-35 vs. F-22 is distance. From long range I don't think even the Su-35 could escape such a close missile launch. In a close range fight, both have thrust vectoring, and the Su has canards. However one thing often overlooked in the craft's manuverability is weight. Russian aircraft are big, mean, and heavy. American aircraft are lighter making them easier to move.

I think the Su-35 would likely retain the manuverability advantage which could give a skilled enough pilot an edge, but its getting that close that's the key. A favorite American tactic is "the grinder" where aircraft go high, launch AIM-120, then spiral downward presenting a confusing radar image. From here they retreat reform, and come back. A Su-35 would have to dodge the AIM-120's, then kick in his afterburners to catch the supercruising F-22 before it reforms. This leads to a short combat time.

For russian aircraft fighting the F-22 will depend on its ability to do the following. Find the F-22's avoid their missiles, close the distance, force them into a dogfight, and shoot them down before the Su or Mig "bingo's" on fuel. If a Su can force an F-22 into a dogfight he has a chance, without it, I don't like his odds.

As far as PAKFA vs. F-22, this is like comparing F-22 to F-35 JSF, aircraft designed on different parameters. A better comparison is the PAKFA versus the F-35 in which case unless the F-35 pilot is of much higher quality the PAKFA wins. Thanks to congressional penny-pinching the Air Force has been forced to dump more and more tasks on the F-35. This leads to compromise and to many have been made.

The F-35's better wait until the F-22's clean the skies out for them."
 
I picked this up somewhere, as of now and in the foreseeable future, there is nothing to beat the F-22.

"The PAK FA was designed to compete with the F-35 Lighting II (AKA JSF) not the F-22. They are two different leagues.

The Su-35 vs. the F-22? Well for one these aircraft are built with two different purposes in mind.

If one looks at the Su-35/37 they notice forward canards. Something that only the americans are not incorporating into their new fighters. The reason for this is forward canards speak to manuverability in a pinch. This boils down to dogfighting. In the hands of pilots of equal skill, the Su's have the advantage in a dogfight.

However dogfights account for only 1 out of 10 aerial victories. The rest being attained in BVR (beyond vidual range) combat. This is what the F-22 was designed for.

You see we've all seen movies like "Top Gun" and "Iron Eagle" and when we think of a missile being fired we think "Break Right!" Well against short range missiles that works. Against longer range missiles such as the AMRAAM this doesn't work. When one fires an AMRAAM at you that's flying mach-4/5 you don't try to break right. Its got plenty of time to compensate, and you don't wait for it to get close then dodge, its moving to fast. What you do is go into erratic manuvers forcing the missile to use up fuel and speed to keep up. The goal being to either cause it to burn up its fuel, or lose so much speed matching your manuvers that you can dodge it.

The F-22 was designed with this purpose in mind. Get so close you can't escape the missiles, fire them, then leave. Dogfighting only as a last resort.

In BVR combat the F-22 has a clear advantage. Also keep in mind AIM-120 are more effective from an F-22, why? Despite what you see in the movies in most air to air combat the fighters stay close to the ground to stay out of the view of surface to air missiles. The stealth F-22 does not, and its high altitude and supercruising speed adds range and speed to the missiles.

There is no doubt in my mind the F-22 is capable of scoring a 10-1 ratio on the Su-35 based purely on the merits of the plane. However combat is much more complicated than this. Those fighting the F-22 will try to avoid engaging it unless they are over their home territory with SAM's, and multiple radars to help them. The americans will send F-35's and F/A-18's on Wild Weasel to degrade this capability. The determinant factor in the battle of Su-35 vs. F-22 is distance. From long range I don't think even the Su-35 could escape such a close missile launch. In a close range fight, both have thrust vectoring, and the Su has canards. However one thing often overlooked in the craft's manuverability is weight. Russian aircraft are big, mean, and heavy. American aircraft are lighter making them easier to move.

I think the Su-35 would likely retain the manuverability advantage which could give a skilled enough pilot an edge, but its getting that close that's the key. A favorite American tactic is "the grinder" where aircraft go high, launch AIM-120, then spiral downward presenting a confusing radar image. From here they retreat reform, and come back. A Su-35 would have to dodge the AIM-120's, then kick in his afterburners to catch the supercruising F-22 before it reforms. This leads to a short combat time.

For russian aircraft fighting the F-22 will depend on its ability to do the following. Find the F-22's avoid their missiles, close the distance, force them into a dogfight, and shoot them down before the Su or Mig "bingo's" on fuel. If a Su can force an F-22 into a dogfight he has a chance, without it, I don't like his odds.

As far as PAKFA vs. F-22, this is like comparing F-22 to F-35 JSF, aircraft designed on different parameters. A better comparison is the PAKFA versus the F-35 in which case unless the F-35 pilot is of much higher quality the PAKFA wins. Thanks to congressional penny-pinching the Air Force has been forced to dump more and more tasks on the F-35. This leads to compromise and to many have been made.

The F-35's better wait until the F-22's clean the skies out for them."

Excellent explanation .......
 
I picked this up somewhere, as of now and in the foreseeable future, there is nothing to beat the F-22.

"The PAK FA was designed to compete with the F-35 Lighting II (AKA JSF) not the F-22. They are two different leagues.

The Su-35 vs. the F-22? Well for one these aircraft are built with two different purposes in mind.

If one looks at the Su-35/37 they notice forward canards. Something that only the americans are not incorporating into their new fighters. The reason for this is forward canards speak to manuverability in a pinch. This boils down to dogfighting. In the hands of pilots of equal skill, the Su's have the advantage in a dogfight.

However dogfights account for only 1 out of 10 aerial victories. The rest being attained in BVR (beyond vidual range) combat. This is what the F-22 was designed for.

You see we've all seen movies like "Top Gun" and "Iron Eagle" and when we think of a missile being fired we think "Break Right!" Well against short range missiles that works. Against longer range missiles such as the AMRAAM this doesn't work. When one fires an AMRAAM at you that's flying mach-4/5 you don't try to break right. Its got plenty of time to compensate, and you don't wait for it to get close then dodge, its moving to fast. What you do is go into erratic manuvers forcing the missile to use up fuel and speed to keep up. The goal being to either cause it to burn up its fuel, or lose so much speed matching your manuvers that you can dodge it.

The F-22 was designed with this purpose in mind. Get so close you can't escape the missiles, fire them, then leave. Dogfighting only as a last resort.

In BVR combat the F-22 has a clear advantage. Also keep in mind AIM-120 are more effective from an F-22, why? Despite what you see in the movies in most air to air combat the fighters stay close to the ground to stay out of the view of surface to air missiles. The stealth F-22 does not, and its high altitude and supercruising speed adds range and speed to the missiles.

There is no doubt in my mind the F-22 is capable of scoring a 10-1 ratio on the Su-35 based purely on the merits of the plane. However combat is much more complicated than this. Those fighting the F-22 will try to avoid engaging it unless they are over their home territory with SAM's, and multiple radars to help them. The americans will send F-35's and F/A-18's on Wild Weasel to degrade this capability. The determinant factor in the battle of Su-35 vs. F-22 is distance. From long range I don't think even the Su-35 could escape such a close missile launch. In a close range fight, both have thrust vectoring, and the Su has canards. However one thing often overlooked in the craft's manuverability is weight. Russian aircraft are big, mean, and heavy. American aircraft are lighter making them easier to move.

I think the Su-35 would likely retain the manuverability advantage which could give a skilled enough pilot an edge, but its getting that close that's the key. A favorite American tactic is "the grinder" where aircraft go high, launch AIM-120, then spiral downward presenting a confusing radar image. From here they retreat reform, and come back. A Su-35 would have to dodge the AIM-120's, then kick in his afterburners to catch the supercruising F-22 before it reforms. This leads to a short combat time.

For russian aircraft fighting the F-22 will depend on its ability to do the following. Find the F-22's avoid their missiles, close the distance, force them into a dogfight, and shoot them down before the Su or Mig "bingo's" on fuel. If a Su can force an F-22 into a dogfight he has a chance, without it, I don't like his odds.

As far as PAKFA vs. F-22, this is like comparing F-22 to F-35 JSF, aircraft designed on different parameters. A better comparison is the PAKFA versus the F-35 in which case unless the F-35 pilot is of much higher quality the PAKFA wins. Thanks to congressional penny-pinching the Air Force has been forced to dump more and more tasks on the F-35. This leads to compromise and to many have been made.

The F-35's better wait until the F-22's clean the skies out for them."

There is no doubt about the superiority of the F-22 today. However This article is definitely biased against dog-fights and Sukhois. (Probably a plea for more funding for F-22's?)
For one, most air-air kills are in close combat rather than BVR engagements as the author claims (AFAIK, BVR accounts for only 2-3 kills till date, correct me if I am wrong). The stats speak for themselves.
Secondly, even if Su's manage to avoid F-22s BVR missiles and do manage to get in close combat, the range of the Sukhoi is still considerable to give the pilot ample amount of time to engage the Raptor before running out of fuel, provided the raptor doesnt 'drill his brains out' in the first few seconds.
And like our Pakistani friends always say, its the man in the machine that matters, not the machine ;) (a jab and pun intended a la comparison of JF-17 and Su-30 MKI)
And lastly, no one knows what PAK-FA looks like or what its capabilities are going to be. So how does the author seem to know about its capabilities to compare it to F-35? Either he's Putin's stooge or a good 'ol plain idiot. Second time you read the article, you find it to be more biased and amateurish.
 
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