Pak ACM states India has 3500 BVR missles

[Munir]

I do not believe Indian numbers unless I see real squadrons or planes with the corresponding numbers. If we have to believe Indian side then we had a total different rality. Nothing personal but I have seen reliable sources then official Indian papers or politicians.

As said, kits are nice but hardly worthy to defend a nation unless they can fly. Knowing that FBW of the M/kI caused the destruction of one and the SU27/SU30 having some serious problems around the globe, we can degrade the title of being a superduper plane. It is a nice truck but do not expect miracles. We know that Indians love the Israeli electronics but that does not make it invincible. We are not stupid arabs.

 

[Keysersoze]

If anyones interested a Hyper link by DIDS a neutral western source saying MKI delivery changed to be completed by 2014 latest and maybe even 2012.

Its not an indian. Source

Costs & Time Kill Full SU-30MKI Production in India (updated)

India needs to finish the MKI programme by 2014 to start license production of MRCA winner IN 2014.

Thats why we are seeing more and more news on here and in india media about new SU30 bases opening up in Northern india like Tezpur etc in the next few weeks..

Thank you for proving our point The post shows several potential sticking points that have been mentioned before and prove what we have been saying.

 

[Gucci Juice]

Well good luck finding those serials because no one has seen them yet it seems. Also it is interesting that the new squadron being formed near china only received 8 aircraft why do you think that is? Why the additional order of 40 aircraft if the production was going so swimmingly?

As I have stated HAL was probably producing a lot less than stated or parts were not available for whatever reason.


Now instead of wasting our time with suppositions go and find the serials for the aircraft in question. Then let all the Indian media know too (you'll be doing them a favour)

even if it was producing less than the original there still should be MORE than 55 a/c

the replacement for the 18 was signed 2 years ago and they should have arrived by now and since they are replacing nearly the same a/c in the same squadron there would be less press coverage , and the 40 a/c will arrive by 2010.

there were 50 in 2004 dont tell me hal has produced 5 a/c in 5 years that complete bs.

if this next statement offends u sry it was not meant to and if u feel its too offensive delete my post and send me a warning but dont accuse me of trolling but i've noticed in this forum that people underestimate a lot of things about India like how many a/c are produced, etc... u even rubbish reports of ur own ACM saying there are 3500 bvr missiles. yet u overestimate things like the capabilities of the jf-17, how many will be produced, etc...

i mean 250 jf-17s by 2015? it will take 10 years for HAL to produce just 140 a/c and u are talking about 250 in 6 years? and on top of that there is a LOT of talk about jf-17 block II with aesa, tvc, new engine, and other goodies and the plane isn't even in operation! In the jf-17 vs mki thread lots of people say jf-17 will come out on top... how is that? the only thing it has on the mki is a lower rcs the mki has an advantage in every other area.


this just doesn't make sense the Indian's have 3x ur numbers yet 10x the budget and considering that maintenence/pay is 3x ur cost what happens to all of the extra money?

 

[Keysersoze]

Well if you would check for yourself the original plan was for a much slower timeframe, but this was changed at the request of a senior IAF person (name escapes at the moment. Now the new schedule supposedly is FASTER AND CHEAPER (which if it is true is a minor miracle in the world of Aviation) It was also stated that in order to speed up production additional parts would be purchased from Russia.

NOW the thing is that there was a temporary grounding of aircraft a while back due to lack of spare parts from Russia undoubtedly this would have affected production as well.

Now in regards to the JF-17 you forget that PAC is only building one aircraft with hit facilities and also China would be engaged as well. Also there were only 32 if you count the K models.

 

[Munir]

Gucci,

>>>even if it was producing less than the original there still should be MORE than 55 a/c

I am looking forward to see something else then papernumbers... You guys have troubles with getting enough spare parts. MK has software problems with other nations. MKI has definately FBW problems. And if you finish one building we hear enough sound (forums, AFM etc etc). Even the most simple development is written a few times in the worldfamous Airforcesmonthly... One insight is that every engine has to go to Russia to major overhauling. That means 2 engines a plane... You guys earn more frequent flyer miles then anyone in the world...

>>>the replacement for the 18 was signed 2 years ago and they should have arrived by now and since they are replacing nearly the same a/c in the same squadron there would be less press coverage , and the 40 a/c will arrive by 2010.

We will see the pics and then we talk.

>>>there were 50 in 2004 dont tell me hal has produced 5 a/c in 5 years that complete bs.

I remember HAL producing Jaguars over time and over budget and not being accepted bij IAF cause they had different actuators or fuelpumps... Or like we hear that LCA will get inducted as a fighterjet in big numbers... Indian plans are indeed impressing but we have to see real results.

>>>if this next statement offends u sry it was not meant to and if u feel its too offensive delete my post and send me a warning but dont accuse me of trolling but i've noticed in this forum that people underestimate a lot of things about India like how many a/c are produced, etc... u even rubbish reports of ur own ACM saying there are 3500 bvr missiles. yet u overestimate things like the capabilities of the jf-17, how many will be produced, etc...

I think that ACM knows a lot more then you think. It is not trolling but you have no idea what you are talking about...

>>>i mean 250 jf-17s by 2015? it will take 10 years for HAL to produce just 140 a/c and u are talking about 250 in 6 years? and on top of that there is a LOT of talk about jf-17 block II with aesa, tvc, new engine, and other goodies and the plane isn't even in operation! In the jf-17 vs mki thread lots of people say jf-17 will come out on top... how is that? the only thing it has on the mki is a lower rcs the mki has an advantage in every other area.

If you know that estimated production is 25 a year... In Pakistan you will have 5*25 =125... They will get the same amount from China so you can make the total... Can't you? The Chinese work 24/7 in multiple production lines. If the US can produce more then 250 f16's in a few years what makes you think that China is as bad as India?


>>>this just doesn't make sense the Indian's have 3x ur numbers yet 10x the budget and considering that maintenence/pay is 3x ur cost what happens to all of the extra money?

China is very cheap in producing planes. It indeed copied pretty much everything and sells it for almost the production costs and not 10000% profit like your jew friends... Pakistan adds nice features with nice packages and affordable prices. They do all the testing and development in PAF... So it is cheaper then you can imagine....

 

[maverick2009]

Gucci.

It irrelevant what anybody here thinks. This thread as Highlighted many facts.

Seriel nos FOR MKI are ranging from 001 to 127 .. Take out 18 SU30K which IAF sent back to Russia = 109 Flankers have been issued Nos.

Secondly 3500 BVR missles are alot to PAF but not to IAF because 3500 only equates to around 10 BVR missles per plane. A single MKI can carry 6 BVR in 1 sortie.

imo 3500 is not enuf considering the size of IAF BVR fleet..

Finally we have posted several websites confirming the current 5 MKI sqds with their own individual names.. despite PEOPLE insisting there are 3 because some new reader said 3.

" its good to debate"

This is a good thread

 

[Keysersoze]

Gucci.

It irrelevant what anybody here thinks. This thread as Highlighted many facts.

Seriel nos FOR MKI are ranging from 001 to 127 .. Take out 18 SU30K which IAF sent back to Russia = 109 Flankers have been issued Nos.

Secondly 3500 BVR missles are alot to PAF but not to IAF because 3500 only equates to around 10 BVR missles per plane. A single MKI can carry 6 BVR in 1 sortie.

imo 3500 is not enuf considering the size of IAF BVR fleet..

Finally we have posted several websites confirming the current 5 MKI sqds with their own individual names.. despite PEOPLE insisting there are 3 because some new reader said 3.

" its good to debate"

This is a good thread

It seems the only irrelevant person here is you. As you post the same crap OVER and OVER.

There have NOT been 127 serial numbers you chucklehead as I explained before the HAL aircraft serials start from 101 (there was even a bloody ceremony to roll it out)

All the IRKUT planes have the previous serials 0-50. Now it is quite simple really A bit like you

Ok regards the missile claim I have shown EXACTLY how many missiles were sold so unless you have proof other than your idiot brain then stop assuming anything. There have been NO orders since 2000 and that order was completed in 2008. so Unless you have proof your opinion is worth exactly zilch.

Right let me post a people who have said 55 aircraft

New Delhi, Apr 30 (ANI): A SU-30 MK-I aircraft of the Indian Air Force on a routine training mission crashed 70 kms southeast of Jaisalmer in Rajasthan, today.

The aircraft had taken off from aircraft had taken off from the Lohegaon air base in Pune.

“The crash took place around 10:30 a.m. Both the pilots ejected out of the aircraft. While Wing Commander SV Munje survived the crash, Wing Commander PS Nara succumbed to his injuries,” the IAF said in a statement released today.

“There is no reported damage to any civil property or life on ground. A Court of Inquiry has been ordered to investigate the reasons for the accident,” the statement added.

This is the first crash of a SU-30MKI, which was inducted into the IAF in 1997. The IAF operates three squadrons (approximately 55 aircraft) of the jet. (ANI)


JAISALMER: An IAF Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter jet crashed at Rajmathai village, 170km from Jaisalmer town of Rajasthan on Thursday, killing one of its
pilots. This is the first time that a Sukhoi-30 MKI, which was inducted into IAF in 2002, has crashed.

According to Wing Commander Tarun Kumar Singha, IAF spokesman, the aircraft took off from Pune on a routine exercise with Wing Commander S V Munje and Wing Commander P S Narah at the controls.

After completing the mission in Pokhran Firing Range in Jaisalmer, the plane was returning to Pune when it developed a technical snag and the pilots lost communication with Air Traffic Control. Defence PRO Lt Col N N Joshi said the crash took place around 10.20am.

The pilots, meanwhile, diverted the plane over an uninhabited area and tried to eject. While the parachute of Munje functioned properly, the parachute of Narah did not open and he fell to his death, said Singha. A court of inquiry has been ordered into the incident, he said.

Both pilots had good experience in flying fighter aircraft and hence the exact reason behind the crash would be known only after getting the inquiry report, he said. According to sources, the aircraft, which crashed in an agricultural field in Punma Ram Jat Ki Dhani at Hariyasar village, broke into smithereens. The plane caught fire after touching the ground and exploded in a huge ball of fire, they said.

As news of the crash spread, hundreds of people rushed to the spot. Villagers, who brought in a water tanker, tried to put out the fire. India at present operates 60 of these air superiority, 4.5 generation fighters in three of its 33.5 squadrons. While 20 Squadron ‘Lightinings’ and 30 Squadron ‘Rhinos’ are based in Pune, the 24 Squadron ‘Hawks’ are located in Bareilly in Uttar Pradesh.

Being the most potent aircraft in the IAF’s inventory, the Sukhoi-30 has been fielded by the IAF in most of its bilateral and multi-lateral air exercises with foreign air forces. The aircraft had made a mark and had gained a reputation for itself while participating in the prestigious ‘Red Flag’ air exercise of the NATO in Nellis air base of the US Air Force in the later part of 2008.

India has placed a fresh order for 40 more Sukhois with Russia in the wake of the then IAF chief Air Chief Marshal S P Tyagi writing to the government in 2006 on the depleting strength of the IAF.

Thats two separate agencies FROM India.




Now seriously, stop posting till you have something of value to post. Your opinion is worth little or nothing.

 

[Haanzo]

It seems the only irrelevant person here is you. As you post the same crap OVER and OVER.

There have NOT been 127 serial numbers you chucklehead as I explained before the HAL aircraft serials start from 101 (there was even a bloody ceremony to roll it out)

mind the tone mister just because you are a mod dosent mean you can behave like you wish ....and i have been noticing your posts the tone is as rude as ever

wont there be a ceremony when first jf-17 built in pakistan is roled out

 

[pakpower]

Stop trolling each other in this thread and think or suggest the PAF guys that how they can built up more or equal no's of BVR's like indiann's possess right now.

 

[Munir]

Stop trolling each other in this thread and think or suggest the PAF guys that how they can built up more or equal no's of BVR's like indiann's possess right now.

Why do I get the feeling that you are an Indian?

 

[pakpower]

Why do I get the feeling that you are an Indian?

Look dude no offence against you or any other muslim friend brother. I am proud to be a Muslim and Pakistan no doubt obout it. You really hurt me by saying this, if I say these words against how could u feel in that senario.

I am disgusted at your remarks.

 

[sancho]

What you say is entirely possible. However HAL has rep of not keeping to schedules. They only produced 6 aircraft in 2006/7 and that won't be close to the schedule of 14 per year to meet the deadline of 2013

So you admit that there could be more, but we both and as you can see most of the media sources also don't know the actual numbers, cause there are mostly speculating (3-5 squads, 55 - 115 produced aircrafts), so let us try to narrow it down a bit!

We know that 50 MKIs was delivered till 2004, but the first so called HAL Mki was also delivered from Russia too as a kind of prototype of the 140 that should be build by HAL under licence. In 2004/05 HAL build 2 aircrafts and after successfully flighttest the licence production starts, this matches to the serials you have posted here:

51 SB101 > First flight Oct 01, 2004.
> Commisioned into IAF 28.Nov.2004
> Ceremonial first flight piloted by P.M.Sergei and Wg Cdr T.R. Ajit Kumar

52 SB102 >

53 SB103 >

You also stated that 2006/07 6 Mki was planed by HAL, btw your source says

Chief manager (indigenisation) of HAL, D.N. Aher, said by 2006-07, HAL plans to roll out six Su-30 MkI aircraft, with raw materials manufactured locally.

, so it's not ONLY 6 were produced and there are delays, but only 6 were planed!
Also the site you refer earlier said for 07/08 10 aircrafts were planed.

To sum it up: 1+2 HAL Mki in 04/05, 4-6 Mki probably in 05/06 (no source yet), 6 in 06/07, 10 in 07/08 = 23 HAL Mki and more than 70 Mki for IAF till early 2008!

Honestly, doesn't this look like a totally normal production line with a normal increase number?

If you concider no increasing for 2008/09 there must be around 80 MKIs ready now, which also would fits to the 2 more squads that should be raised soon.

So far it seems like there are no problems with the production, but we can't say if the production was increased and to what numbers.
The problem with getting spares was about getting spares from countries of the former USSR, that's why IAF is getting many parts locally now and the fact that Irkut already delivered 100 complete kits, should make clear that there are no spare problems. But I agree with you that having 100 kits, doesn't mean that those 100 were already produced like some members said.

Actually if all these aircraft are being rebuilt it begs the question how many are actually operational. After all the first batches need to be replaced/upgraded. The Phase 1 and 2 aircraft need to be upgraded so it's no surprise that additional orders are being made to Irkut they are probably behind schedule.

As I told you before, the first 18 Ks were replaced by new MKIs in 2007, the vayu-sena site you come up with also explains why:

Even though the vanilla Su-30K aircraft were meant to be upgraded to MKI standard the significant differences meant that the only viable option was to replace the aircraft completely. New build MKIs were supplied to replace them to 24 Sqn.

The later 32 were MKIs and were delivered early 2000, so the MLU which is planed for around 2015 is absolutely on time and it should be clear that the new order has nothing to do with it!
Till now all sources said that the new order of 40 MKIs were needed because of the big number of Mig 21 and 27 that are retiring. To keep the squad numbers it was necessary to order them besides the licence production. Again no need to speculate that it has anything to do with delays in the production!
What we can talk about is, if HAL still will build 140, or only 100 under licence, cause I also think that they can build them all before MMRCA production will start.

 

[Keysersoze]

By Saurabh Joshi on 08.May

Sources in the Indian Air Force (IAF) have informed StratPost that a fourth squadron of Sukhoi 30-MKI aircraft has been raised in the past few months.

When asked as to the number of squadrons of the Sukhoi 30MKI, an IAF officer confirmed, “Four.”

While not revealing the base of the 8th Squadron, the ‘Hot Pursuits’, the officer indicated Lohegaon in Pune to have two squadrons with Bareilly in Uttar Pradesh having the rest.

While each squadron has between 16-18 aircraft, StratPost has been given to understand the new squadron is not yet up to full strength, so the total number of aircraft in the IAF should be at least 48 and with all four squadrons swelling to sanctioned strength, the number could go up to 72. IAF sources conservatively estimate the existing number of Sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft to be around 50. Media has generally reported the IAF Sukhoi-30 MKI fleet to number between 55-60.

The IAF lost its first Sukhoi-30 MKI in a crash last week near Jaisalmer in which one occupant was killed. However the IAF has said it does not consider the aircraft grounded.

 

[blain2]

Stop trolling each other in this thread and think or suggest the PAF guys that how they can built up more or equal no's of BVR's like indiann's possess right now.

Why would we want to have the same number of BVRs? They have more aircraft thus more BVRs. 500 BVRs, if used effectively, can bring the entire IAF to a standstill.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Looks like some Indian members have managed to get under the skins of senior Pakistani members here! Take a chill-pill guys and enjoy the following video: I guess 'TheNews' report was made after the following interview if I am not wrong.