Pak ACM states India has 3500 BVR missles

[Keysersoze]

Keyseroze

Don,t be offended but i checked the same website and found this data.

Importer/Exporter TIV Tables..

With India acquiring just under $3 billion dollars worth of missles between 2002-2008...

India has a variety of its own ballistic missles & cruise missles.

So I can only assume a large portion of that $3 billion Are BVR/WVR missles in particular alongside delivery or license production of the SU30MKI which only started arriving in 2003 onwards..

My hyperlink clearly showes very larges sums going to Russia

ok my error. I entered USSR instead of Russia ,however there were no AAM orders after 2000. The only order was for R-77's in 2000 al the others were ASM's SAM's and such.

 

[maverick2009]

I have disagree.

The major weapon System for SU30MKI IS THE R77 & R27..

The mki only entered service in 2003.

Theres no way that IAF have not ordered a single BVR since year 2000..

Does not make sense

R27 & R77 are always on display on indian MKI in air shows and abroad.

" I think the ACM OF PAF is probably better breifed than you and i who are using websites for our Info..

 

[Keysersoze]

I have disagree.

The major weapon System for SU30MKI IS THE R77 & R27..

The mki only entered service in 2003.

Theres no way that IAF have not ordered a single BVR since year 2000..

Does not make sense

R27 & R77 are always on display on indian MKI in air shows and abroad.

" I think the ACM OF PAF is probably better breifed than you and i who are using websites for our Info..

You can disagree as much as you like........ the MKI uses current inventory, it does not use SUPER DUPER MKI missiles. the missiles would have been ordered in 2000 and delivered over the 8 years. newer stock replacing stock lost through attrition.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

In reply to Blain

You quoted indian sources saying 60 mki

The main indian source Bharat Raksha last undated March 2009 shows 80 mki with 5 squadrons...

Wipi which seems to updated daily shows same 5 Squadrons Nos with 115 mki...

" One thing is certain IAF does not operate a squadron with just 12 planes per squadron. Generally IAF has between 17 -21 fighters per squadron.

why are u so deluded? entire 55 MKI fleet were grounded last week and IAF officale words not some fan boy pretending to be some 5 star general on internet. BK and wiki are just joke. do you like jokes?

 

[King Julien]

^^^ why will they ground the entire fleet.... its only the particular batch that gets grounded in such cases.....

 

[Gucci Juice]

i dont think ppl have raised the possibility of the missiles BEING MANUFACTURED INSIDE OF THE COUNTRY.

that's where the institute cant report anything.

and there are DEFINATELY 100 mki's

1996 40 were ordered and in 1999 10 more were ordered.

does it really take 13 years to deliver 50 mki's?

true 20 were taken back but news ones have replaced them.

lets say deliveries of the 50 were complete in 2003 and that's when production at hal started at 12 a/c per year.

in 5 years u have... 110 a/c considering that 20 were taken back that's still 90.

all 230 were supposed to be inducted by 2014, that means that in 5 years a total of 120 or 140 have to be produced meaning an average of 24-28 per year, that number is WAY too high for a 5 year period max HAL can produce is 18 a year. this points to 2 things

1. more than 110 mki's are active or in advanced phase of induction

2. production is delayed

like u said keyesersoze south asian media are retarded and toi is no exception.

 

[Keysersoze]

i dont think ppl have raised the possibility of the missiles BEING MANUFACTURED INSIDE OF THE COUNTRY.

that's where the institute cant report anything.

REALLY!!!!!????????? WOW! But did you know that licenses for manufacture have to be issued and that these are covered? So unless you are referring to some other missile, you are incorrect.

 

[Keysersoze]

Regards the MKi induction a interesting set of numbers from a Indian website.

# Serial Remarks
Su-30MK (Retired) Ex 24 Sqn
01 SB001

> Painted in temporary tri-colour scheme for R-Day Parade.
> Flypast @ Su-30MKI Induction ceremony, Lohegaon AFS (27.Sep.2002)
> Ex Cope India 2006, Kalaikunda AFS (Nov 2005)
02 SB002
03 SB003
04 SB004
05 SB005
06 SB006

> Painted in temporary tri-colour scheme for R-Day Parade
07 SB007

> Painted in temporary tri-colour scheme for R-Day Parade.
> Flypast @ Su-30MKI Induction ceremony, Lohegaon AFS (27.Sep.2002)
08 SB008

> Painted in temporary tri-colour scheme for R-Day Parade.
Su-30K (Retired) Ex 24 Sqn
09 SB009
10 SB010

> Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)
> Ex Cope India 2006, Kalaikunda AFS (Nov 2005)
11 SB011
12 SB012
13 SB013

> Flypast @ Su-30MKI Induction ceremony, Lohegaon AFS (27.Sep.2002)
> Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)
> Ex Cope India 2006, Kalaikunda AFS (Nov 2005)
14 SB014

> Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)
15 SB015

> Static display @ Chennai Air Show, Old Meenambakkam Airport (31.Aug.2003)
16 SB016

> Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)
> Ex Cope India 2006, Kalaikunda AFS (Nov 2005)
17 SB017

> Static Display @ Vayu Sena Diwas, Palam AFS (08.Oct.2002)
> Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)
> Ex Cope India 2006, Kalaikunda AFS (Nov 2005)
18 SB018

> Static Display @ Su-30MKI Induction ceremony, Lohegaon AFS (27.Sep.2002)
> Radome was seen in ealier photographs with a light grey colour covering two-thirds of the length
> Static Display; Open Day at AFS Lohegaon
> Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)
Su-30MKI Phase-I
19 SB019
20 SB020
21 SB021

> Static Display @ Begumpet Air Port, Hyderabad (07.May.2003)
22 SB022

> Flying Display @ Aeroindia 2003, Yelahanka AFS, Piloted by 20 Sqn CO Jamwal
(05-09.Feb.2003)
23 SB023

> Static Display @ Mumbai Airshow Chatrapathi Shivaji International Air Port (14.Oct.2004)
> Confirmed 20 Sqn
24 SB024

> Flypast @ Su-30MKI Induction ceremony, Lohegaon, Piloted by 20 Sqn CO Jamwal (27.Sep.2002)
>Static display at Nagpur Air Show
25 SB025
26 SB026

> Static Display @ Aeroindia 2003, Yelahanka AFS (05-09.Feb.2003)
27 SB027
28 SB028
Su-30MKI Phase-II
29 SB029
30 SB030
31 SB031
32 SB032
33 SB033
34 SB034
35 SB035

> Aeroindia 2005 Yelahanka AFS - reserve for flying display
> Confirmed 30 Sqn
36 SB036

> Static Display @ Aeroindia 2005 Yelahanka AFS
> Confirmed 30 Sqn
37 SB037
38 SB038
39 SB039
40 SB040

> Flying Display @ Aeroindia 2005 Yelahanka AFS
> Confirmed 30 Sqn

It is unclear how these aircraft have been distributed between the No.20 and No.30 Squadrons.
Su-30MKI Phase-III (Irkut)
41 SB041

> Confirmed 30 Sqn
42 SB042

> Confirmed 30 Sqn
> Ex Red Flag 2008, Nellis AFB (trf to 20 Sqn?)
43 SB043
44 SB044
45 SB045
46 SB046

> Ex Red Flag 2008, Nellis AFB
47 SB047
48 SB048

> Ex Red Flag 2008, Nellis AFB
49 SB049
50 SB050

Last delivery Dec 2004. It is unclear how these aircraft have been distributed between the No.20 and No.30 Squadrons.
Su-30MKI Phase-III (HAL)
51 SB101

> First flight Oct 01, 2004.
> Commisioned into IAF 28.Nov.2004
> Ceremonial first flight piloted by P.M.Sergei and Wg Cdr T.R. Ajit Kumar
52 SB102

>
53 SB103

>
SB107

>
SB110

> Ex Red Flag 2008, Nellis AFB
SB115

>
SB124

> Air Force Day 2007
SB127

>

HAL has targetted FY 2014-15 for delivering the last Su-30MKI. Rate of production is reported to be 13 aircraft per annum [2], which would mean that atleast 20-25 aircraft have already been produced by HAL by the current financial year. However only SB101/2/3 have been sighted so far.


Unless someone has some more serial numbers to add then the number stands at 55


(please note that the remarks are for individual aircraft as the information has not come across as shown on the original)

 

[blain2]

In reply to Blain

You quoted indian sources saying 60 mki

The main indian source Bharat Raksha last undated March 2009 shows 80 mki with 5 squadrons...

Wipi which seems to updated daily shows same 5 Squadrons Nos with 115 mki...

" One thing is certain IAF does not operate a squadron with just 12 planes per squadron. Generally IAF has between 17 -21 fighters per squadron.

Yes that is true however having a squadron # assigned does not mean that its full strength. You could have sqns spread across and as more aircraft are received, the sqn strength is built up but until then they are understrength. Usually this is the norm. I do not think that IAF has even close to 100 MKIs at this time.

 

[maverick2009]

In reply to Blain

Keyserose as just quoted SU30MKI nos going up to SB127..

See his post above.

Thus far in this total thread. We have DEBATED that

1. The ACM of PAF got his BVR missle nos wrong at 3500 missles

2. That des[pite several websites confirming 5 operational Sqds of MKI we wud prefer to say there are only 3 sqds..

3. That the SU30MKI seriel nos going up SB127 is irrelevant

Gucci is correct on couple of points India Received 50 mki striaght from Russia by end of 2007.

India Rolled out first very own MKI license built in 2004.

India has surely built more than 10 planes in nearly 5 years.

Also the production schedule as pointed by Keysorose will finish in 2014 with all 230 mki to be finished by then.

If anything i have probably underestimated the mki nos at 100

 

[Keysersoze]

In reply to Blain

Keyserose as just quoted SU30MKI nos going up to SB127..

See his post above.

Thus far in this total thread. We have DEBATED that

1. The ACM of PAF got his BVR missle nos wrong at 3500 missles

2. That des[pite several websites confirming 5 operational Sqds of MKI we wud prefer to say there are only 3 sqds..

3. That the SU30MKI seriel nos going up SB127 is irrelevant

Gucci is correct on couple of points India Received 50 mki striaght from Russia by end of 2007.

India Rolled out first very own MKI license built in 2004.

India has surely built more than 10 planes in nearly 5 years.

Also the production schedule as pointed by Keysorose will finish in 2014 with all 230 mki to be finished by then.

If anything i have probably underestimated the mki nos at 100

Again maverick you are incorrect. The HAL manufactured aircraft start from 101 whereas the prebuilt aircraft start from 0-50. Also the serials start from the Su-30's that were originally purchased (before the MKI was created) The 127 number was aircraft that are "supposed" to exist according to HAL's schedule. Tat does not mean they exist.

 

[Keysersoze]

The build schedule was for 140 by 2013 not 240

 

[Gucci Juice]

^

ya u are right 140 will be finished by 2013.

and 50 have already arrived.

but 40 more were ordered in 2007 THEY WILL COME FROM RUSSIA by 2010.

the rest of the 140 will be made at hal.

and 2 new squadrons are to be raised soon at Tezpur.

 

[maverick2009]

Agree with Gucci

I posted an article ( in indian miliart section last week) that A New MKI sqds at Tezpur is to be raised in June 2009 ie a few weeks time.

So whilst we debate are there 5 sqds the IAF maybe well be inducting the 6TH Sqd at Tezpur on June 24th.

I have provided a hyperlink in the thread too from a statement by the ACM IAF.. " Tezpur to induct new MKI fighters"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Guwahati/Tezpur-base-soon-to-get-Sukhois/articleshow/4581006.cms

 

[maverick2009]

Vayu Sena is a 3rd IAF website this also confirms

5 sqds we also have the MKI sqd names in the hyper link i have provided.

Unit Location Airframes Serial No.s
No. 24 Sqn AF
Hawks Bareilly AFS
(Bareilly) 08 Su-30MK (Retired) SB001 to SB008
10 Su-30K (Retired) SB009 to SB018
??? Su-30MKI ???
No. 20 Sqn AF
Lightnings ? AFS
(Bareilly or Jodhpur?) 10 Su-30MKI Phase-I SB019 to SB028
?? Su-30MKI Phase-II SB029 to ???
No. 30 Sqn AF
Rhinos
? AFS
(Jamnagar or Tezpur?)
??? Su-30MKI
???

No. 8 Sqn AF
Pursoots
Lohegaon AFS
(Pune)
??? Su-30MKI
???

No. 31 Sqn AF
Lions
??? AFS

??? Su-30MKI
???



# Serial Remarks
Su-30MK (Retired) Ex 24 Sqn
01 SB001 > Painted in temporary tri-colour scheme for R-Day Parade.
> Flypast @ Su-30MKI Induction ceremony, Lohegaon AFS (27.Sep.2002)
> Ex Cope India 2006, Kalaikunda AFS (Nov 2005)

02 SB002
03 SB003
04 SB004
05 SB005
06 SB006 > Painted in temporary tri-colour scheme for R-Day Parade

07 SB007 > Painted in temporary tri-colour scheme for R-Day Parade.
> Flypast @ Su-30MKI Induction ceremony, Lohegaon AFS (27.Sep.2002)

08 SB008 > Painted in temporary tri-colour scheme for R-Day Parade.

Su-30K (Retired) Ex 24 Sqn
09 SB009
10 SB010 > Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)
> Ex Cope India 2006, Kalaikunda AFS (Nov 2005)

11 SB011
12 SB012
13 SB013 > Flypast @ Su-30MKI Induction ceremony, Lohegaon AFS (27.Sep.2002)
> Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)
> Ex Cope India 2006, Kalaikunda AFS (Nov 2005)

14 SB014 > Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)

15 SB015 > Static display @ Chennai Air Show, Old Meenambakkam Airport (31.Aug.2003)

16 SB016 > Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)
> Ex Cope India 2006, Kalaikunda AFS (Nov 2005)

17 SB017 > Static Display @ Vayu Sena Diwas, Palam AFS (08.Oct.2002)
> Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)
> Ex Cope India 2006, Kalaikunda AFS (Nov 2005)

18 SB018 > Static Display @ Su-30MKI Induction ceremony, Lohegaon AFS (27.Sep.2002)
> Radome was seen in ealier photographs with a light grey colour covering two-thirds of the length
> Static Display; Open Day at AFS Lohegaon
> Deployed to Istres AFB, France (Ex Grauda II, Jun 2005)

Su-30MKI Phase-I
19 SB019
20 SB020
21 SB021 > Static Display @ Begumpet Air Port, Hyderabad (07.May.2003)

22 SB022 > Flying Display @ Aeroindia 2003, Yelahanka AFS, Piloted by 20 Sqn CO Jamwal
(05-09.Feb.2003)

23 SB023 > Static Display @ Mumbai Airshow Chatrapathi Shivaji International Air Port (14.Oct.2004)
> Confirmed 20 Sqn

24 SB024 > Flypast @ Su-30MKI Induction ceremony, Lohegaon, Piloted by 20 Sqn CO Jamwal (27.Sep.2002)
>Static display at Nagpur Air Show

25 SB025
26 SB026 > Static Display @ Aeroindia 2003, Yelahanka AFS (05-09.Feb.2003)

27 SB027
28 SB028
Su-30MKI Phase-II
29 SB029
30 SB030
31 SB031
32 SB032
33 SB033
34 SB034
35 SB035 > Aeroindia 2005 Yelahanka AFS - reserve for flying display
> Confirmed 30 Sqn

36 SB036 > Static Display @ Aeroindia 2005 Yelahanka AFS
> Confirmed 30 Sqn

37 SB037
38 SB038
39 SB039
40 SB040 > Flying Display @ Aeroindia 2005 Yelahanka AFS
> Confirmed 30 Sqn

It is unclear how these aircraft have been distributed between the No.20 and No.30 Squadrons.

Su-30MKI Phase-III (Irkut)
41 SB041 > Confirmed 30 Sqn

42 SB042 > Confirmed 30 Sqn
> Ex Red Flag 2008, Nellis AFB (trf to 20 Sqn?)

43 SB043
44 SB044
45 SB045
46 SB046 > Ex Red Flag 2008, Nellis AFB

47 SB047
48 SB048 > Ex Red Flag 2008, Nellis AFB

49 SB049
50 SB050
Last delivery Dec 2004. It is unclear how these aircraft have been distributed between the No.20 and No.30 Squadrons.

Su-30MKI Phase-III (HAL)
51 SB101 > First flight Oct 01, 2004.
> Commisioned into IAF 28.Nov.2004
> Ceremonial first flight piloted by P.M.Sergei and Wg Cdr T.R. Ajit Kumar

52 SB102 >

53 SB103 >

SB107 >

SB110 > Ex Red Flag 2008, Nellis AFB

SB115 >

SB124 > Air Force Day 2007

SB127 >

HAL has targetted FY 2014-15 for delivering the last Su-30MKI. Rate of production is reported to be 13 aircraft per annum [2], which would mean that atleast 20-25 aircraft have already been produced by HAL by the current financial year. However only SB101/2/3 have been sighted so far.