PAF's possible answer to MRCA

[zou_hope]

please add letter "l" in link end

 

[zou_hope]

please remove blank in 3_1 .htm

it's ok

 

[Hasnain2009]

Post the URL again.

 

[araz]

I would say It as a Good Move, you Know why, Because FC-20 Will be a Platform well Built for You to advance into the Core of its technology, But the same cannot be said about the F-16's from USA...

Sir
It is always a good move to have some control over your destiny. This unfortunately has never been the case with US supplied weapons, as they have always come with strings and no transfer of tech. We now have a chance to mould this plane according to what we need it to be.We have the experience of most of the international market and the way things are shaping up and this is somewhat a problem for our friends due to sanctions. Our relationship therefore is symbiotic and unique. We also have a lot of laxity in incorporating western avionics and weapons suit where it was required. Now our friends are progressing leaps and boud, we may not need to do this either.
Araz

 

[SBD-3]

Post the URL again.

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[TaimiKhan]

I would say It as a Good Move, you Know why, Because FC-20 Will be a Platform well Built for You to advance into the Core of its technology, But the same cannot be said about the F-16's from USA...

Exactly, with both JF-17 as well as with FC-20s, we are gonna have platforms which will be independent of dependence and fears of sanctions with respect to the US, as well as PAF can ask for anything which is tailored made for its requirements and keep them upgrading as and when required. And would be cheaper also to buy.

 

[IndianArmy]

Exactly, with both JF-17 as well as with FC-20s, we are gonna have platforms which will be independent of dependence and fears of sanctions with respect to the US, as well as PAF can ask for anything which is tailored made for its requirements and keep them upgrading as and when required. And would be cheaper also to buy.

Yes, and Most Importantly You can achieve Self reliance After Manufacturing and Up[grading some Aircrafts With The Helpf Of China, When partnering with the USA , You have a scope for buying but not Progressing....

But with China, Pakistan can Learn technologies and implement it In Future Indigenous Aircrafts...

Indeed a Wise Decision I Must say..... Now I dont think PAF will opt for More F-16's, Instead can opt for FC-20 Molded According to your choice

 

[Freedom]

no possible answer of MRCA....it's require at least $10 billion....and pak already investing lot of money on JF-17....so forget abt pak MRCA....

 

[SBD-3]

Exactly, with both JF-17 as well as with FC-20s, we are gonna have platforms which will be independent of dependence and fears of sanctions with respect to the US, as well as PAF can ask for anything which is tailored made for its requirements and keep them upgrading as and when required. And would be cheaper also to buy.

I honestly think that PAF has done the right thing by going for more of the Falcons and upgrading the ones that it already has...It would not only save cost of installing additional infrastructure (as many posters were hinting the famous "two squadrons" of Rafale, Typhoon and blaw blaw blaw) not mentioning the matintainence headache. By committing to more Falcons PAF would effectively save the additional resources (both technical and Human) which would have to be acquired for a new platform and thus would be able to focus fully on meeting JFT timeline....and regarding FC-20, IMHO PAF would acquire it with ToT, regarding the argument that PAC doesn't have the capacity...I think PAC should concentrate on FC-20 production after completion of PAF orders and commit its resources to FC-20 and let CAC deal with export orders as PAF will get its fair share of profit while having to do nothing (50% of profit). PAC may continue a limited JFT operation if customers demand western avonics whose supplier would be reluctant to deal with China but I think Chinese customers will be preety happy with Chinese Avionic Pack as they would already have the experience with it. Coming back to FC-20, It would not be a heavy and unmanagable burden for the PAF as
1- Share of components with JFT
2- Pakistani Avionics development
3- Possible Western Avionics (which will be done by PAC anyway)
the only challenges would be Airframe, AESA, and Engine.....Which would be a real task for PAC. (JFT project and engine overhaul and rebuilding experience will certainly come handy here)

 

[TaimiKhan]

no possible answer of MRCA....it's require at least $10 billion....and pak already investing lot of money on JF-17....so forget abt pak MRCA....

Did you even read the thread and posts before coming with this non sense or even have any idea how Pakistan purchases and invests ???

Who said we need 10B to match each and every plane India buys ??

Even the JF-17s program got investment in parts, while the JF-17s have been bought with seller's credit, similarly FC-20s would be bought with sellers credits, thus giving us sufficient fiscal space to pursue other projects.

And FC-20 would be and is the contender to come face to face with any IAF MRCA winner in few years time. You agree or not, is not my problems, but PAF is gonna go for FC-20s which would be as good rivals to Indian MRCAs or even MKIs.

 

[thinkingcap81]

Did you even read the thread and posts before coming with this non sense or even have any idea how Pakistan purchases and invests ???

Who said we need 10B to match each and every plane India buys ??

Even the JF-17s program got investment in parts, while the JF-17s have been bought with seller's credit, similarly FC-20s would be bought with sellers credits, thus giving us sufficient fiscal space to pursue other projects.

And FC-20 would be and is the contender to come face to face with any IAF MRCA winner in few years time. You agree or not, is not my problems, but PAF is gonna go for FC-20s which would be as good rivals to Indian MRCAs or even MKIs.

But seller's credit is not unlimited. As Pakistan's economy recovers the seller's credit will be less required. But this might be 3 - 4 years away.

As of now PAF seems to be concentrating on improving JF-17 block II 's specs and getting the very respectable F-16 blk52 in perhaps less than sufficient numbers for an offensive role.

I am not too aware or understand aircraft specs. Will FC-20 or F-16 blk52 be good enough to take the attack into Indian territory (since IAF aircrafts and logistics will be better then) especially since it is suggested that Rafael/EF in a 2 squadron strength may cause logistic/maintainence headaches?

Could someone tell me what is PAF's strategy for the next decade or so? I ask since MastanKhan had mentioned that PAF was never a defensive force. I also think that one does not or should not train all pilots for a defensive role. Fighter pilots must be having lots of adrenaline surges and must dearly want to take the attack to the enemy. So how can a force be currently concentrating purely on defence?

Could someone advise or point to links to answers for my queries?

 

[SBD-3]

for those who think PAF should opt for Typhoon

July 13, 2010: The Eurofighter Typhoon only entered regular service in the last three years. Now, Britain is planning to phase out a third of those it has, in the next five years. Germany is also cancelling Typhoon orders. Last year, Britain decided to not take all of its third batch (or "tranche", as they like to call it in Europe) of 88 Eurofighter Typhoon fighters. Britain had decided to take 40 of the fighters from the third batch, and resell another 24 to Saudi Arabia. In effect, Britain was pulling out of the Eurofighter program, and cancelling 16 of the aircraft it was to have received from the third batch. The British government believes that 184 Eurofighters will be sufficient, and that it cannot afford any more than that. Originally, Britain planned to buy 232 (Germany was to get 180, Italy 121, and Spain 87.) With export orders, it was expected that nearly 500 would be built, now it will be less than 400. Like the F-22, the Typhoon got too expensive for a need that disappeared.

The Eurofighter project began during the Cold War, to deal with advanced Russian combat aircraft that were never manufactured, because the Cold War ended in 1991 and the Soviet Union, and its armed forces, collapsed. But Cold War era combat aircraft development projects continued anyway. This was mainly for political reasons. Those projects created a lot of jobs, and were worth a lot of votes. But reality caught up with the politicians during the current world recession, created in part by a lot of spending on things people could not afford.

Development of the Eurofighter began in the 1980s, and the first flight took place in 1994. Each aircraft costs about $122 million. The Typhoon is a somewhat stealthy multi-role fighter. It is fast, maneuverable, and carries a lot of weapons. It also can be used for attack missions. This 23 ton aircraft will be the principal fighter in the air forces of Britain, Spain, Germany, and Italy. The Typhoon is closer in capability to the F-15, than the F-22, and is competing with the F-35 for many export sales. The Typhoon was purchased by Saudi Arabia, mainly to provide protection from Iran.

 

[TaimiKhan]

But seller's credit is not unlimited. As Pakistan's economy recovers the seller's credit will be less required. But this might be 3 - 4 years away.

Yes its not unlimited, but it gives us a lot of fiscal space to maneuver in and go for other critical projects. Buying from China has this good thing that we can have seller's credit in nearly every deal, and whenever possible Pakistan will go for that.

As of now PAF seems to be concentrating on improving JF-17 block II 's specs and getting the very respectable F-16 blk52 in perhaps less than sufficient numbers for an offensive role.

PAF is concentrating of the second batch of JF-17s, as well as FC-20s and the up gradation of the older blocks of F-16s. These three programs are the major projects right now for PAF.

I am not too aware or understand aircraft specs. Will FC-20 or F-16 blk52 be good enough to take the attack into Indian territory (since IAF aircrafts and logistics will be better then) especially since it is suggested that Rafael/EF in a 2 squadron strength may cause logistic/maintainence headaches?

FC-20s / F-16s are primarily for facing the offensive platforms of the IAF, that would be the MKIs, Mig-29s & MRCAs for now. FC-20s/F-16s/ROSE upgrade Mirages as well as JF-17s all would be used for strike missions as and when required, as all major platforms are multi role, and as we have not so many aircraft, that is why we are investing more and more in PGMs of all sorts, so that if aircraft are not available, atleast we can use PGMs from stand off ranges, that would also be the strategy of the IAF also.

Could someone tell me what is PAF's strategy for the next decade or so? I ask since MastanKhan had mentioned that PAF was never a defensive force. I also think that one does not or should not train all pilots for a defensive role. Fighter pilots must be having lots of adrenaline surges and must dearly want to take the attack to the enemy. So how can a force be currently concentrating purely on defence?

Could someone advise or point to links to answers for my queries?

Well next decade i can't say, but till 2015, it is to get all its F-16s upgraded to Blk 52 standard as well as if possible, get some more of these platforms and make the numbers cross 100. Get 150 JF-17s online as well as next block to be finalized & 36-40 FC-20s in service. Similarly other platforms also to be fully inducted and operational, comprising of the AEW&Cs, Intel aircrafts, aerial tankers etc etc.

PAF has a defensive / offensive doctrine. First priority is to not let the enemy have air superiority, while on the same time keep attacking the enemy to keep it on its toes and not concentrate fully on Pakistan, and bring damage to the enemy. Major targets for PAF are within 300-400 KM of the border, thus with major numbers of PGMs, it can keep attacking targets in India at stand off ranges and keep its aircraft safe.

But once stealth is introduced in this region, then we will see what to do.

 

[fatman17]

at the moment the best answer to MMRCA is more examples of F-16C/D Blk 52 with updated radar and the AIM-120D BVR.

 

[indushek]

I think the best move for Pakistan would be to go further in developing JF-17 by bringing in the future buyers of JF-17 as partners. I am not knowledgable of technicalities so i am only speaking project per se. Already Jf-17 is a 4+ generation aircraft and from what i see it has a small body just like our LCA. Since it is not a Delta wing and size is small, with the future buyers joining in as partners may be u could develop it in to a 5th gen platform by developing Avionics and all that stuff (don't know if i am saying it correct). My reasoning for this is that if F-15 a 30 year old fighter could be developed in to F-15 SE and so many showing interest why can't a relatively new plane like JF-17 not do that.
In this way Pakistan will also become self-reliant and not required to ask USA for anything.