PAF Vs IAF Command and Control Systems

[Hulk]

With all due respect sir there is a very important point which many Indians including you have missed. The point is that India and Pakistan are at war. I have already proved this in previous posts so I will not do it again.

Pakistan is not trying to avoid war it is trying to end it. Because we not have the conventional means to challenge India most of our offensive actions are asymetric. These attempts shall continue till the time the Kashmir dispute is resolved. The question is not of how India will retaliate if Pakistan does something. The question is how will India retaliate when Pakistan does something.

No offence intended but in my opinions it is the Indians who are fools because they do not understand the reality. The reality is that there is no point in trying to prevent a war which is already going on. The efforts have to be to end this conflict and to end it as soon as possible.

Looking at your reply, it apprears to me that you are not interested in understanding other person's post at all.

You asked why India did not do surgical strike. I replied saying going for war has to be well thought and should be last resort.

Your answer is not making sense to me at all. Because in the context I meant conventional war not cold war or hidden war types.

Now about your conclusion on what system we have and if that is inferior to what Pakistan has.

1) Most of us posting here are civilians, not seen any Military pofessional from India, there are some Pakistan, so ofcourse we do not have a level field. Given that I think some of my fellow countrymen were doing awesome job, I am very proud of them

2) Even if we had someone who knew this info, I do not think he will post it over the forum.

3) India has more money and more access to technology, so that way they should definatly have better system. One problem we have is buerocracy, and lack of focus or interest on defense purchase. This has changed after 26/11 and Kargil. So I will continue to believe we will have systems at par or better than your no matter what you post, now carry on.

 

[silent hawk]

depending on the protocol chosen..it is possible to embed voice in it.
The US army's low alt warning system uses the SINGCARS radio to transmit its data back to the op center.. whilst maintaining voice capability.
There are already open source protocols available that allow for both data and voice transmission over the network.. and all are capable of being encrypted.

There are a few research centre's in India which have come up with such adaptations..and it is quite unlikely that DRDO did not notice..if not even support them.

In this respect.. if one was to take word of mouth..the PAF's project vision is no different from the IACCS...with a bigger role however for the command HQ's.
The NOC shown here already exists in the PAF.. one can buy that book I referred to get an idea of it..

The network, software section isnt the main problem.. its the hardware beneath it..
and right now the PAF lags behind in two major sectors of that hardware.

Sir I totally believe what you say , however for this thread everything said must have a reference like wikipedia.

Surprisingly as I mentioned according to the net Project Vision hardly exists.

As mentioned I shall soon make a comparision of PAFs system. Right now I am focused on the IAF system. I agree that IAF will come up with solutions if PAF can do it why not IAF. However the point is that at present India can not have a modern C4I system as many Indian chest thumpers have been claiming.

The actual position of IAF C4I systems must rationally be very close to my analysis.

 

[silent hawk]

Looking at your reply, it apprears to me that you are not interested in understanding other person's post at all.

You asked why India did not do surgical strike. I replied saying going for war has to be well thought and should be last resort.

Your answer is not making sense to me at all. Because in the context I meant conventional war not cold war or hidden war types.

Now about your conclusion on what system we have and if that is inferior to what Pakistan has.

1) Most of us posting here are civilians, not seen any Military pofessional from India, there are some Pakistan, so ofcourse we do not have a level field. Given that I think some of my fellow countrymen were doing awesome job, I am very proud of them

2) Even if we had someone who knew this info, I do not think he will post it over the forum.

3) India has more money and more access to technology, so that way they should definatly have better system. One problem we have is buerocracy, and lack of focus or interest on defense purchase. This has changed after 26/11 and Kargil. So I will continue to believe we will have systems at par or better than your no matter what you post, now carry on.

Sir I appreciate your patriotism. My discussion is purely military and technical in nature. I think Pakistani's and Indians both love their countries. As I once said.

I love Pakistan but I don't hate Indian​

 

[Hulk]

Sir I appreciate your patriotism. My discussion is purely military and technical in nature. I think Pakistani's and Indians both love their countries. As I once said.

I love Pakistan but I don't hate Indian​

Neither do I hate Pakistan, it's not about that buddy. You are trying to play both side in 1 game, it is not correct. You completly ignored what I have written this time too. Only replied with one liner. I am getting a sense that you just don't care what people write and are upto proving something even if no one is reading and believing. So carry on.

 

[silent hawk]

depending on the protocol chosen..it is possible to embed voice in it.
The US army's low alt warning system uses the SINGCARS radio to transmit its data back to the op center.. whilst maintaining voice capability.
There are already open source protocols available that allow for both data and voice transmission over the network.. and all are capable of being encrypted.

There are a few research centre's in India which have come up with such adaptations..and it is quite unlikely that DRDO did not notice..if not even support them.

In this respect.. if one was to take word of mouth..the PAF's project vision is no different from the IACCS...with a bigger role however for the command HQ's.
The NOC shown here already exists in the PAF.. one can buy that book I referred to get an idea of it..

The network, software section isnt the main problem.. its the hardware beneath it..
and right now the PAF lags behind in two major sectors of that hardware.

Sir, I once asked what is the most challenging aspect of C4I development?

One very challenging aspect as you very well know is convincing the end user. Military projects as once again you very well know have their own momentum.

The staff requirements for the Indian Project are final they don't listen to qualified PHD doctors let alone a blogger on a Pakistani forum.

No having interacted with the military both of us know that at least in the first phase IACCS will not have NCW capability.

 

[silent hawk]

Neither do I hate Pakistan, it's not about that buddy. You are trying to play both side in 1 game, it is not correct. You completly ignored what I have written this time too. Only replied with one liner. I am getting a sense that you just don't care what people write and are upto proving something even if no one is reading and believing. So carry on.

With all due respect sir I try to go for the spirit of things. When you put down no matter what you post in bold you yourself have closed all avenues of rational discussion. Being a junior I was just agreeing to disagree in a respectful way.

 

[Rafi]

PAF C4I Centre - by the way these are deep underground and can still operate in a nuclear environment

 

[SQ8]

and even these have now been upgraded...
But there is nothing on the internet..
So people wont believe it .

 

[silent hawk]

If you look carefully at the PAF system you will see something which the IACCS lacks. Headsets.

 

[silent hawk]

depending on the protocol chosen..it is possible to embed voice in it.
The US army's low alt warning system uses the SINGCARS radio to transmit its data back to the op center.. whilst maintaining voice capability.
There are already open source protocols available that allow for both data and voice transmission over the network.. and all are capable of being encrypted.

There are a few research centre's in India which have come up with such adaptations..and it is quite unlikely that DRDO did not notice..if not even support them.

In this respect.. if one was to take word of mouth..the PAF's project vision is no different from the IACCS...with a bigger role however for the command HQ's.
The NOC shown here already exists in the PAF.. one can buy that book I referred to get an idea of it..

The network, software section isnt the main problem.. its the hardware beneath it..
and right now the PAF lags behind in two major sectors of that hardware.

Sir, Maybe you are reffering to RADEX and Cognative Radio. No problem at the correct point in time and space I am sure PAF will take these systems from your company.

For the forum it must be clear that Pakistani companies have indigenous solutions for these hardware related issues. PAF for the timebeing is using available foreign technology.

 

[India Rising]

a army whose army is only 2.5 times of pakistan (approx)..having a budget of more than five times of pakistan and having the assistance of countries like Israel, Germany, US, Russia, France (all have the access of cutting edge technology)...and india herself known for one of the best IT destination...
It is hard to believe that she is inferior to paksitan in these aspect without concrete proofs....

provide the proofs.... rather than gives the verdict on your perception..thanks

 

[paritosh]

The point is that the strong army has not been able to maintain peace. Pakistan continues to provoke India. In Pakistan there is a thinking that the Indian Forces may finally become pro-active. This is a capability which they have always had but never used.

It is true that you have an economy to loose but the forces also have to maintain morale and pride. When events like the bombing of Indian Parliment or Mumbai Incident take place and the armed forces are unable to do anything it must shurely create frustration in younger ranks. Similarly the people must be asking the armed forces what is the use of spending billions on them.

You are clearly trying to develop a missile shield, building a carrier groub , have SLBMs and many other things which clearly show that you must have offensive designs.

To me the purpose of the Indian armed forces is not clear. If such a large force was raised for defensive purposes than the purpose is surely not being achieved. Pakistan at this time feels highly threatened that this time India will not wait for a terrorist attack before trying a surgical strike. Are these fears unfounded?

India and Pakistan have come out of years of occupation and colonization...India's mindset has been that of an aggrieved farmer...willing to use his sickle for war...
Our semi-successful policy of NAM was aimed at never gettig sub-dued or dependent on a bigger power ever again...at least on paper.
The India of Lal Bahadur Shastri was different from that of Indira Gandhi...the 70s brought forth the power posturing phase of India...
Our policy off-late imo is based on the fear that we might have to fight on two fronts with two nuclear powers....a frightening scenario for even the biggest of powers....a big reason for a chiefly agrarian and poor country to go for a/c carriers and 5th gen planes and nuke subs...
it's a pity...that both India and Pakistan have drawn each other into this viscious cycle...

 

[silent hawk]

a army whose army is only 2.5 times of pakistan (approx)..having a budget of more than five times of pakistan and having the assistance of countries like Israel, Germany, US, Russia, France (all have the access of cutting edge technology)...and india herself known for one of the best IT destination...
It is hard to believe that she is inferior to paksitan in these aspect without concrete proofs....

provide the proofs.... rather than gives the verdict on your perception..thanks

This is not a court its a forum. People express thier point of view and respect others. The material has been posted people can decide for themselves.

Development arises out of neccesity. In the 1998 Kargil Cricis Pakistan realized that PAF does not have the capability to support insurgency operations inside India. PAF so went on an upgradation program. The thunder, PAF's C4I system and PAFs UAV programme are the results of that upgrade.

After Mumbai India has started upgrading IAF so that it can inflict pain and punishment on Pakistan.

The only reason why we have a better C4I system is because we started earlier. Rest all of your figures are correct.

 

[silent hawk]

India and Pakistan have come out of years of occupation and colonization...India's mindset has been that of an aggrieved farmer...willing to use his sickle for war...
Our semi-successful policy of NAM was aimed at never gettig sub-dued or dependent on a bigger power ever again...at least on paper.
The India of Lal Bahadur Shastri was different from that of Indira Gandhi...the 70s brought forth the power posturing phase of India...
Our policy off-late imo is based on the fear that we might have to fight on two fronts with two nuclear powers....a frightening scenario for even the biggest of powers....a big reason for a chiefly agrarian and poor country to go for a/c carriers and 5th gen planes and nuke subs...
it's a pity...that both India and Pakistan have drawn each other into this viscious cycle...

I completely agree with you sir it is indeed a pity. However I strongly believe that our drawing each other into this viscous cycle did not occur naturally.

Soon Allah willing I shall launch my second thread on how the west deliberately created hatred between India and Pakistan.

The ultimate aim of war is peace. We must remove animosities if we want to win.

 

[India Rising]

This is not a court its a forum. People express thier point of view and respect others. The material has been posted people can decide for themselves.

Development arises out of neccesity. In the 1998 Kargil Cricis Pakistan realized that PAF does not have the capability to support insurgency operations inside India. PAF so went on an upgradation program. The thunder, PAF's C4I system and PAFs UAV programme are the results of that upgrade.

After Mumbai India has started upgrading IAF so that it can inflict pain and punishment on Pakistan.

The only reason why we have a better C4I system is because we started earlier. Rest all of your figures are correct.

proved the bolded part.....apart from that how much percentage you think the classified information is available to everyone to see ?? this is nothing but apne muh miya mithdoo banana...

what about the defence budget that india have along with human resources and technology that we have the access, you didn't respond to these obvious facts...

and also you didn't provide the concrete proofs..

let discuss in a more pragmatics way rather than a fanboyish approach.